News Forum - FBI’s flawed Trump-Russia probe lacked evidence, says independent prosecutor

[Thaiger]

The long-awaited report on the origins of the FBI’s investigation into alleged collusion between Russia and Donald Trump‘s 2016 presidential campaign has been released, revealing serious flaws and a lack of substantial evidence. Independent US prosecutor John Durham, who was appointed in 2019, conducted the investigation and produced a more than 300-page report that criticised …

The story FBI’s flawed Trump-Russia probe lacked evidence, says independent prosecutor as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Tezza1971]

1 hour ago, Thaiger said:

The long-awaited report on the origins of the FBI’s investigation into alleged collusion between Russia and Donald Trump‘s 2016 presidential campaign has been released, revealing serious flaws and a lack of substantial evidence. Independent US prosecutor John Durham, who was appointed in 2019, conducted the investigation and produced a more than 300-page report that criticised …

The story FBI’s flawed Trump-Russia probe lacked evidence, says independent prosecutor as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

American politics is now more corrupted and crooked than that of the third world countries we used to laugh at in Africa, like Mugabe in Zimbabwe. And today I think it's even worse, the 2020 election now proves how corrupted the American Election Process is, Ballot dumping in swing states were Biden was losing tens of thousands of votes at closing, all of s sudden winning by tens of thousands, what a joke. Documentaries proving rigging and voter fraud, yet the Intelligence Agencies have done nothing, showing that they are now part of the problem in America. As evident by the evidence against the sitting President and his family who have been collecting dirty money in exchange for Joe changing policies, the FBI has the laptop with the evidence, yet no arrests or charges. America will be lost before the next election judging by the invasion being allowed because of Obama directing Joe to make changes to border control. How sad for Americans.

[Marc26]

26 minutes ago, Tezza1971 said:

American politics is now more corrupted and crooked than that of the third world countries we used to laugh at in Africa, like Mugabe in Zimbabwe. And today I think it's even worse, the 2020 election now proves how corrupted the American Election Process is, Ballot dumping in swing states were Biden was losing tens of thousands of votes at closing, all of s sudden winning by tens of thousands, what a joke. Documentaries proving rigging and voter fraud, yet the Intelligence Agencies have done nothing, showing that they are now part of the problem in America. As evident by the evidence against the sitting President and his family who have been collecting dirty money in exchange for Joe changing policies, the FBI has the laptop with the evidence, yet no arrests or charges. America will be lost before the next election judging by the invasion being allowed because of Obama directing Joe to make changes to border control. How sad for Americans.

Delusional.......

 

 

Except for the Biden family part

That's shady.

 

But wait......Kushner getting 2 BILLION from Saudi with no investing experience is SO MUCH MORE SHADY

 

 

But American politics has always been corrupt and gets more corrupt every day 

 

Most corrupt country in the world 

[Vigo]

Where is the evidence to support the  claim that there  was "ballot dumping"? To date there has been nothing to support the  allegation made by Trump. Repeating a lie repeatedly does not make it a truth. it does however speak to the ignorance and psychological state of those who promote the lie. After all, what type of person is unable to accept the truth, or to accept the reality when a series of  lies and fabricated facts unravel?

Trump alleged that there were 475 cases of voter fraud. Even if he could support the claims, the votes were insufficient to have any  impact on the election outcome.     https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/ap-review-finds-far-too-little-vote-fraud-to-tip-2020-election-to-trump

The Brennan Center for Law at the NY University School of Law reviewed 20 years worth of elections and found that the US federal elections are quite clean and that includes years when Republicans won elections. 

 https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

Yes, there have been cases of voter fraud, but these  are primarily at the state, county and municipal level. For the most part, US federal elections are a clean event with little actual voter fraud.

[TWS60]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

Delusional.......

Except for the Biden family part

That's shady.

But wait......Kushner getting 2 BILLION from Saudi with no investing experience is SO MUCH MORE SHADY

But American politics has always been corrupt and gets more corrupt every day 

Most corrupt country in the world 

Trump barely won in 2016, and only by FIAT of the Electoral College, which, let's be frank, was massaged and rigged - only because it was Hillary Clinton.  Obama, if he could have run again, would have smashed Trump easily.  

2020 was far too close for comfort.  However, if Trump even tries to run again, save for any disqualifying events between now and then, it'll be a shut out against him.   He's a 2-bit chump.  Anyone alive since the 1980s knows that.  Ask any New Yorker over the age of 50, they'll tell you.  The Apprentice was just a bloody television show.  Too many dumb Americans out there.  FFS.

[Marc26]

27 minutes ago, TWS60 said:

Trump barely won in 2016, and only by FIAT of the Electoral College, which, let's be frank, was massaged and rigged - only because it was Hillary Clinton.  Obama, if he could have run again, would have smashed Trump easily.  

2020 was far too close for comfort.  However, if Trump even tries to run again, save for any disqualifying events between now and then, it'll be a shut out against him.   He's a 2-bit chump.  Anyone alive since the 1980s knows that.  Ask any New Yorker over the age of 50, they'll tell you.  The Apprentice was just a bloody television show.  Too many dumb Americans out there.  FFS.

I'm sort of a New Yorker

Went to college and lived and worked there for 14 years

 

We all knew Trump was a conman long before President 

 

But he also didn't lose by much in 2020

 

So I wouldn't brush him off as unelectable 

 

 

[Dancbmac]

3 hours ago, TWS60 said:

Trump barely won in 2016, and only by FIAT of the Electoral College, which, let's be frank, was massaged and rigged - only because it was Hillary Clinton.  Obama, if he could have run again, would have smashed Trump easily.  

2020 was far too close for comfort.  However, if Trump even tries to run again, save for any disqualifying events between now and then, it'll be a shut out against him.   He's a 2-bit chump.  Anyone alive since the 1980s knows that.  Ask any New Yorker over the age of 50, they'll tell you.  The Apprentice was just a bloody television show.  Too many dumb Americans out there.  FFS.

I never liked Trump or his “big ego” type since i first heard of him in the 1980s.  He definitely isn’t a politician.  Can’t stand Hillary either I was told I wasted my vote in 2016 voting Libertarian Party for Johnson even though he didn’t stand a chance.  Many Americans think they have a choice when voting, but the DNC & RNC who control the money decide who the candidates are and lately they both have been s*** choices.  Just ask Bernie Sanders from the 2016 Primaries.  Bernie was killing it, but the “Queen Hillary” was decided by the DNC years prior that she will easily win.  Trump initially decided as a publicity stunt, because he loves hearing his name and was surprised that he actually won it.  As much as I don’t like the dude it was bs that losing side create that Russian collusion story etc.  Corruption at the highest & lowest levels. The Durham Report is kinda “a day late & a dollar short” the help “Donald” out and scary that the FBI will do this crap to anybody, even the President.  Though no Russian collusion was found I really hope that Trump doesn’t run again, but his ego is more important than the country itself, so unless he is disqualified for legal reasons 2024 might be a volatile election year my best guess and what will Joe’s campaign be like?  Hopefully neither will get past the primaries.

[ThaiFoodGuy]

7 hours ago, Vigo said:

Where is the evidence to support the  claim that there  was "ballot dumping"? To date there has been nothing to support the  allegation made by Trump. Repeating a lie repeatedly does not make it a truth. it does however speak to the ignorance and psychological state of those who promote the lie. After all, what type of person is unable to accept the truth, or to accept the reality when a series of  lies and fabricated facts unravel?

You're not wrong but the problem is there is also no proof that it didn't happen, so it's very easy for the conspiracy theory to tread water. And the court cases which were brought by Trump were dismissed on standing, not on merit, so neither side really got a chance to prove or disprove their claims.

Keep in mind as well that Hillary continues, to this day, to claim she lost in 2016 due to fraud and collusion by foreign players. I'm not trying to pull a "what about"ism, but hypocrisy is hypocrisy and all baseless claims of fraud/interference are stupid distractions which only really work on stupid people (very effectively, unfortunately).

[Marc26]

5 hours ago, Dancbmac said:

I never liked Trump or his “big ego” type since i first heard of him in the 1980s.  He definitely isn’t a politician.  Can’t stand Hillary either I was told I wasted my vote in 2016 voting Libertarian Party for Johnson even though he didn’t stand a chance.  Many Americans think they have a choice when voting, but the DNC & RNC who control the money decide who the candidates are and lately they both have been s*** choices.  Just ask Bernie Sanders from the 2016 Primaries.  Bernie was killing it, but the “Queen Hillary” was decided by the DNC years prior that she will easily win.  Trump initially decided as a publicity stunt, because he loves hearing his name and was surprised that he actually won it.  As much as I don’t like the dude it was bs that losing side create that Russian collusion story etc.  Corruption at the highest & lowest levels. The Durham Report is kinda “a day late & a dollar short” the help “Donald” out and scary that the FBI will do this crap to anybody, even the President.  Though no Russian collusion was found I really hope that Trump doesn’t run again, but his ego is more important than the country itself, so unless he is disqualified for legal reasons 2024 might be a volatile election year my best guess and what will Joe’s campaign be like?  Hopefully neither will get past the primaries.

The Durham report showed no real evidence to back up his claims.

 

I am not a 100% FBI supporter( i think they do some shady shit) but Crossfire started for legitimate purposes and to say otherwise is just a lie(not accusing you)

A Trump Aide was the source to start it

 

And his campaign manager was giving Russia information

His National Security Adviser was lying about talking to the Russians

They met Russians in Trump Tower

With a long list of other communications

 

This all happened and is factual

 

I am not saying the whole investigation was perfect, I don't think many law enforcement investigations are

 

But there were legitimate contacts between the campaign and Russia that needed to be investigated and that is a fact

[JohninDublin]

11 hours ago, Tezza1971 said:

American politics is now more corrupted and crooked than that of the third world countries we used to laugh at in Africa, like Mugabe in Zimbabwe. And today I think it's even worse, the 2020 election now proves how corrupted the American Election Process is, Ballot dumping in swing states were Biden was losing tens of thousands of votes at closing, all of s sudden winning by tens of thousands, what a joke. Documentaries proving rigging and voter fraud, yet the Intelligence Agencies have done nothing, showing that they are now part of the problem in America. As evident by the evidence against the sitting President and his family who have been collecting dirty money in exchange for Joe changing policies, the FBI has the laptop with the evidence, yet no arrests or charges. America will be lost before the next election judging by the invasion being allowed because of Obama directing Joe to make changes to border control. How sad for Americans.

I've said this before and I think it needs to be said again:

I have nothing against Americans, but I do hate American stupidity. There were 150 mill votes cast in that election. Opinion polls later concluded that most people who believed in the "stolen election" were Repulicans (about 70% of 70 million), 50 million of them. I don't have to take sides in this matter to make my point, but either there are 50 million Americans who are stupid enough to believe this claim, or there are 100 million Americans too stupid to realise that that an election was stolen. Either way, that's a lot of American stupidity. 

Presuming Trump wins the next election, the real credibility will just how vigourously he has the allegations you make, investigated. I recall in the 2016 election, he made claims that the reason Cinton won the popular vote, was that 3 mill illegal votes were cast for her. When he came into office, he set up an inquiry which was very quietly shut down about a year later when nothing was found.

[JohninDublin]

11 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Delusional.......

Except for the Biden family part

That's shady.

But wait......Kushner getting 2 BILLION from Saudi with no investing experience is SO MUCH MORE SHADY

But American politics has always been corrupt and gets more corrupt every day 

Most corrupt country in the world 

Contenders for the "Best Politicians Money Can Buy" award.

[Marc26]

12 hours ago, Tezza1971 said:

 Ballot dumping in swing states were Biden was losing tens of thousands of votes at closing, all of s sudden winning by tens of thousands, what a joke. ans.

I am so tired of dealing with grown adults that just lie or are stupid enough to believe lies

I just don't know how you people can't be embarrassed but I guess stupid people can't.

 

There was no "ballot dumping"

 

It is a fact, historical, that day of voting will favor Republicans and they will show results early and that mail -in and early voting gets counted after and favors Democrats by a wide margin

 

But of course the lies were part of his plan and again, that is documented fact

 

So stop with your nonsense

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-planned-to-falsely-declare-victory-months-prior-to-2020-election-jan-6-committee-183709946.html

 

[JohninDublin]

8 hours ago, ThaiFoodGuy said:

You're not wrong but the problem is there is also no proof that it didn't happen, so it's very easy for the conspiracy theory to tread water. And the court cases which were brought by Trump were dismissed on standing, not on merit, so neither side really got a chance to prove or disprove their claims.

Keep in mind as well that Hillary continues, to this day, to claim she lost in 2016 due to fraud and collusion by foreign players. I'm not trying to pull a "what about"ism, but hypocrisy is hypocrisy and all baseless claims of fraud/interference are stupid distractions which only really work on stupid people (very effectively, unfortunately).

Actually several cases were dismissed on the basis of evidence presented. The one that sticks out in my memory is the Detroit Count. 

Six or 8 witnesses and swore an affidavit that a car with "out of state" plates arrived outside the Count centre at about 3am and started unloading boxes that were believed to contain ballots. As soon as I read that case, I KNEW it was BS. There were all these supposed witnesses, and it appears that they did not have between them, a single phone capable of filming the incident. Well maybe not. But it too appears that they also lacked pen and paper as well as the gumption to note the plate number of the car, or even identify which state it was registered in.

But you have to assume that the Trump Lawyer who brought the case, was no fool. One of the things Lawyers learn very early is to try not to ask any questions where the answers might embarrass you. I've never been to the US, let alone Detroit, but I am aware that it is a high-crime area. I am willing to bet my house on the fact that the count centre is a CCTV hotspot. So that raises the question, "Why did the Lawyer never attempt to obtain the CCTV footage from the relevant time?". I'd suggest that it was because he did not believe his own witnesses, and to do so, would have led them to facing conspiracy and perjury charges.

As for lack of standing, that is a more recent explanation as to the origins of this claim. It was an invention to explain the loss of 61 of 62 cases filed, many of which were tried by GOP appointed judges. If a complainant lacks standing, there is a simple solution to it: Re-file and substitute somebody who has the necessary standing. All 61 cases were eventually rejected by SCOTUS and were never heard. The bar to get a hearing in that court is for 4 of the 9 Justices to approve it for listing. SCOTUS has a 6/3 GOP lean. Of the 6, three were Trump Appointees. We will never know how the voting went on this process, but do you not wonder how Trump could never get above 3 votes, if he got any votes at all, in what was considered to be such a partisan court? 

Of course, you might want to consider Giuliani's contribution to these cases. On one occasion, he told the audience on the courthouse steps, that he was going to go into court and prove election fraud. When he came before the judge, virtually the first words out of his mouth, was that this was not a case about election fraud.

[Dancbmac]

13 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

Opinion polls later concluded that most people who believed in the "stolen election" were Repulicans (about 70% of 70 million), 50 million of them. I don't have to take sides in this matter to make my point, but either there are 50 million Americans who are stupid enough to believe this claim, or there are 100 million Americans too stupid to realise that that an election was stolen. Either way, that's a lot of American stupidity. 

I always wonder where these opinion polls come from?  I’m in my 60s and have never been approached or contacted by any of these pollsters so I always wonder where these pollsters get their information.  I have lived in 11 states, many in the city and have voted everywhere I have lived and never had these so called pollsters ask me anything.  I know there are folks that believe that the election was stolen who are vocal about it in the media including some of the media itself, but that doesn’t mean half or more than half believe that s***. Most people I know don’t even talk about it, so unless you have factual information on who believes the election was stolen then don’t put all your eggs on what the American media reports as most of it is slanted to whatever outlet is reporting. I personally only know two people that believe that crap and I know more than four people and I just ignore them, as most people do, because it is usually a waste of energy trying to discuss the topic with them. 

[JohninDublin]

4 hours ago, Dancbmac said:

I always wonder where these opinion polls come from?  I’m in my 60s and have never been approached or contacted by any of these pollsters so I always wonder where these pollsters get their information.  I have lived in 11 states, many in the city and have voted everywhere I have lived and never had these so called pollsters ask me anything.  I know there are folks that believe that the election was stolen who are vocal about it in the media including some of the media itself, but that doesn’t mean half or more than half believe that s***. Most people I know don’t even talk about it, so unless you have factual information on who believes the election was stolen then don’t put all your eggs on what the American media reports as most of it is slanted to whatever outlet is reporting. I personally only know two people that believe that crap and I know more than four people and I just ignore them, as most people do, because it is usually a waste of energy trying to discuss the topic with them. 

Regarding your never having been polled, I'd have a guess and suggest that this is due to the way that polls are conducted in the US. Take a look at 538.com abd there will be a whole host of polls and some will have as few as 600 respondents. In a country of 325 mill, that's 1 in 540k being polled. The accepted wisdom is that the larger the poll, the greater it's likelihood of accuracy. Still most polls on 538 are in the 6000 respondent range, which is 1-in-54k. You won't get asked if you are ineligible to vote based on age etc. So with a lifespan of say 70 years (52 voting years), that's about 19k days after you are 18 in which you are likely to be polled in a 6k Canvass. Not ultra-scientific I can agree, but this suggests that 2 out of 3 people will never be polled in their lifetimes.

As for the poll data I have referenced, the "70%" is widely reported. I googled "70% of Trump voters believe election was stolen", and the first answer I got was this: https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republicans-falsely-believe-stolen-election-trump/ and it is widely reported.

My own personal take on this, is that many who claim to believe in the stolen election, really don't. If  they did, they would have found conclusive evidence of this by now. All the evidence that they have shown me to date are short clips from YT, which are at best, open to interpretation. I have no doubt that these will have been well scrutinised by the DoJ people that Trump sent out to investigate. If they ar

[Dancbmac]

That explains the polling math!  Those polls never held much weight with me, but I am just a tiny drop in the cog of life.

From my life experience, those that make the loudest noise get a higher percentage of the attention in the public media in which those outside of the “latest issue” may think the majority of those closest to that location (in this case Americans) or issue think the same way but in reality most just keep to themselves.

[JohninDublin]

It is generally accepted that the real quality of a poll, is not so much the demographics such as sex, race, education, but the number of people that are polled. In the 2017 UK elections, every poll except one, had May as a comfortable winner over Corbyn. These polls were generally about 2k canvasses. The outlier was a Yougov poll which canvassed 20k, and predicted no overall majority for either party. That was the only correct poll.

We've seen in recent years that polls are becoming increasingly unreliable. A lot of this is to do with cost efficiencies. Whenever you read a poll finding, you need to understand, that the bit you read is specific to the org that is paying for the poll, and that the bigger the poll, the more expensive the cost to the sponsor. 

In order to keep costs down, Pollsters, based on previous experience, set targets for what the think are the significant demograpic groups, and then weight the poll based on this. So if the model requires say "4 white college graduates", that is the number they will ask. The problem is that with such small groups, it is possible that all four will give the same answer, but if they had asked say 14, 8 out of the next 10 might give the opposite answer, which screws up the outcome. If you are looking at polls for an indication, the first thing you should look for is the size of the polls.

It should be added, that one pollster's model, might require "4 white educated college, graduates", but another might require 6. Go figure!

[KaptainRob]

This thread is going well off-topic and will be closed shortly.  Please take your alternate discussions to another more appropriate forum.