News Forum - Cancun’s hidden side exposed in award-winning investigation

[Thaiger]

An investigation revealing the hidden side of Cancun, the renowned Caribbean resort town, has won a prestigious journalism award in Mexico, one of the deadliest countries in the world for journalists. Ricardo Hernandez received the prestigious Breach-Valdez Award for human rights journalism for his in-depth report published in the magazine Gatopardo. The report unveiled the …

The story Cancun’s hidden side exposed in award-winning investigation as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Marc26]

I absolutely love Mexico but staying away for the time being

 

It is just too dangerous

 

We were in Tulum in 2021 and one of the most popular bars/clubs was shot up the night after my wife and I were there

I am not a timid traveler but seeing the Army driving down the street with mounted machine guns sort of takes away from the ambience!!

[Grumpish]

4 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I absolutely love Mexico but staying away for the time being

It is just too dangerous

We were in Tulum in 2021 and one of the most popular bars/clubs was shot up the night after my wife and I were there

I am not a timid traveler but seeing the Army driving down the street with mounted machine guns sort of takes away from the ambience!!

Sounds like it has gone downhill very badly in the last few years, I was in Tulum in 2015, diving the cenotes, and it was a place you could wander about at night without any worries - the most dangerous things were the vicious bat sized mosquitoes that would attack if you were unlucky enough to be still in the jungle near sunset. 

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Grumpish said:

Sounds like it has gone downhill very badly in the last few years, I was in Tulum in 2015, diving the cenotes, and it was a place you could wander about at night without any worries - the most dangerous things were the vicious bat sized mosquitoes that would attack if you were unlucky enough to be still in the jungle near sunset. 

Yeah it went downhill in rapid fashion

 

In less than a year 

 

Some of the most popular restaurants/bars on beach rd closed rapidly because they wouldn't pay protection money 

 

Shootings regularly 

 

Now the streets patrolled by military in machine gun trucks

 

I absolutely loved Tulum

 

Probably the best food city I have ever been to

[KaptainRob]

1 minute ago, Marc26 said:

I absolutely loved Tulum

Probably the best food city I have ever been to

So long as you like mexican? 

I thought Vancouver and Boston were your favourites.  Perhaps you could draw up a M26 Top 10?

[Grumpish]

42 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

So long as you like mexican? 

I thought Vancouver and Boston were your favourites.  Perhaps you could draw up a M26 Top 10?

As no big fan of Mexican cuisine, Tulum was no gastronomic delight to me. The nearest i ever get to cooking Mexican for myself is a tomato free chille beef.

[Vigo]

Cancun is as safe if not safer than Thailand's  resorts of  Pattaya and Phuket. Yes there are murders in Cancun, but almost all are Mexican nationals. In 2022 there were 34. murders. https://thecancunsun.com/crime-rate-drops-in-cancun-as-city-cracks-down-on-all-criminal-activity/

The deciding difference between Mexico and Thailand is that tourists are more likely to be injured or killed in a motor vehicle incident in Thailand. People discount the impact of  vehicle incidents, but you can't really  100% avoid the large number of bad drivers and drunks on the road. Cancun's tourist areas has a fairly  good road system with road lines, few potholes, proper sidewalks, streetlights etc.

Yes, the national guard was deployed, but the military presence is  far less prevalent than it is in Thailand. Fly into Utapao or Phuket airports and you are using a military owned property. The Thai military has tens of thousands of troops deployed around Pattaya and Phuket. Many golf courses and recreational facilities are owned by the Thai military.

 

[Marc26]

10 hours ago, Vigo said:

Cancun is as safe if not safer than Thailand's  resorts of  Pattaya and Phuket. Yes there are murders in Cancun, but almost all are Mexican nationals. In 2022 there were 34. murders. https://thecancunsun.com/crime-rate-drops-in-cancun-as-city-cracks-down-on-all-criminal-activity/

The deciding difference between Mexico and Thailand is that tourists are more likely to be injured or killed in a motor vehicle incident in Thailand. People discount the impact of  vehicle incidents, but you can't really  100% avoid the large number of bad drivers and drunks on the road. Cancun's tourist areas has a fairly  good road system with road lines, few potholes, proper sidewalks, streetlights etc.

Yes, the national guard was deployed, but the military presence is  far less prevalent than it is in Thailand. Fly into Utapao or Phuket airports and you are using a military owned property. The Thai military has tens of thousands of troops deployed around Pattaya and Phuket. Many golf courses and recreational facilities are owned by the Thai military.

There have been multiple gun fights at Cancun resorts in the last 2 years

 

And I don't know when or where the last time you were in Mexico but Thailand absolutely does not have the armed military presence roaming the streets that Mexico has

 

I will agree Cancun has an awesome public bus system cheap and easy and nice roads

[Marc26]

12 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

So long as you like mexican? 

I thought Vancouver and Boston were your favourites.  Perhaps you could draw up a M26 Top 10?

@Grumpish @KaptainRob

 

This is not your average tacos and burritos Mexican I am talking about

This is high end Mexican in gorgeous trendy restaurants, too many to even list

 

And not just Mexican, like Bangkok and Thailand, foods from all over the world

 

 

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurants-g150813-Tulum_Yucatan_Peninsula.html

 

 

But you can still get amazing street tacos as well

 

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurants-g150813-Tulum_Yucatan_Peninsula.html

[Marc26]

12 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

So long as you like mexican? 

I thought Vancouver and Boston were your favourites.  Perhaps you could draw up a M26 Top 10?

Vancouver has the best Asian food I have ever experienced in a city

 

Boston has the best casual food places, sub shops/pizza/bar food

 

But Boston's upmarket dining scene is just average

 

 

I'd rate Bangkok and Tulum as the best food cities I have been to

[Vigo]

On 5/5/2023 at 9:53 PM, Marc26 said:

There have been multiple gun fights at Cancun resorts in the last 2 years

And I don't know when or where the last time you were in Mexico but Thailand absolutely does not have the armed military presence roaming the streets that Mexico has

I will agree Cancun has an awesome public bus system cheap and easy and nice roads

Do not confuse the Mexican national guard or federal police with the army. The article I referenced specified how many army personnel had been sent to Cancun, and the number was far less than Thai troops   stationed within an hour of any  large city in Thailand. The Thai 4th army has 40,000 active service personnel  around the Phuket region, with HQ in NST. However, Phuket is both an air force and a navy  strongpoint as there is the naval base near the aquarium and the airforce  base at the airport. No need for army when there are several thousand sailors and airmen to call upon.  There is a reason why the yellow shirts got away with what they did in the triangle of corruption (Phuket-Surat Thani - Nakhon si Thammarat).

 Yes, there were gun fights in Cancun, but that was prior to  the crackdown and since then it has been quiet.  Thailand is a violent nation. Foreigners don't have much exposure but they do die in greater numbers in Thailand.  However, the number one killer are vehicle related  incidents in Thailand. One is more likely to die from a vehicle impact in Thailand than being murdered in Mexico.

[Marc26]

14 minutes ago, Vigo said:

Do not confuse the Mexican national guard or federal police with the army. The article I referenced specified how many army personnel had been sent to Cancun, and the number was far less than Thai troops   stationed within an hour of any  large city in Thailand. The Thai 4th army has 40,000 active service personnel  around the Phuket region, with HQ in NST. However, Phuket is both an air force and a navy  strongpoint as there is the naval base near the aquarium and the airforce  base at the airport. No need for army when there are several thousand sailors and airmen to call upon.  There is a reason why the yellow shirts got away with what they did in the triangle of corruption (Phuket-Surat Thani - Nakhon si Thammarat).

 Yes, there were gun fights in Cancun, but that was prior to  the crackdown and since then it has been quiet.  Thailand is a violent nation. Foreigners don't have much exposure but they do die in greater numbers in Thailand.  However, the number one killer are vehicle related  incidents in Thailand. One is more likely to die from a vehicle impact in Thailand than being murdered in Mexico.

There is nothing to confuse

 

Whatever unit it is, is irrelevant 

Tulum has pickup trucks with mounted machine guns driving all over town because of cartel murders 

 

The restaurant I frequent, one of the most popular bars in Tulum was shot up the night after I was there

 

There has been multiple gum fights in 4-5 star tourist resorts in Cancun

 

None of that has ever happened when I have been in Thailand 

 

Towns don't get taken over by gangs and cartels in Thailand 

 

Mexico is my favorite country and I don't scare easy

 

I've frequented both Thailand and Mexico the last 20 years and I can tell you which one I feel is the safer one at the moment 

 

Bringing up vehicular deaths is irrelevant as well

 

I choose and others choose to ride MB and cars

I don't choose to be in the middle of a shootout in the most popular bats, restaurants and resorts 

[Vigo]

Why do you reference Tulum. The article is about Cancun. Tulum is not Cancun . Tulum is approx.  140 km south of Cancun. It's like saying Trang is the same as Hat Yai.

There was one recent shootout in Cancun on the beach and it was considered a settling of accounts between gangsters. Tourists were not injured. Was it really that much different than the murder of Jimi Sandhu in Rawai , Phuket in 2022?   Please provide the Cancun shootouts in the past 3 years. Please reference the murders of  tourists that you believe has occurred.  There have been multiple  violent assaults and murders on foreigners in Phuket. A recent case was reported in  the Phuket News  Feb 13, 2023.  Every so often we get a flurry of  violent crime in Phuket. Sometimes it  is written about just like the fuss  over Cancun.  https://thethaiger.com/news/national/recent-crimes-in-phuket-are-damaging-its-reputation

Large tourists towns attract gangsters and opportunistic criminals.   Sure, parts of Mexico are dangerous for foreigners, but Cancun is not one of them. Parts of Thailand are no go zones for tourists too. It is inadvisable to go adventure seeking in the deep south or along the Myanmar border.

And yes, the fatality and injury rates due to vehicles is very germane. One is more likely to be injured or killed due to vehicle incident in Phuket than one is to be a victim of violent crime in Cancun.Thailand has the 2nd worst vehicular death and injury rate in the world. Even if Cancun was as dangerous as you insist, the reality is that a tourist is more likely to be killed or maimed or crippled by a Phuket driver. 

BTW, you should have a look at the problem of tourist rape in Thailand. Phuket has a problem in that area too.

[Marc26]

43 minutes ago, Vigo said:

Why do you reference Tulum. The article is about Cancun. Tulum is not Cancun . Tulum is approx.  140 km south of Cancun. It's like saying Trang is the same as Hat Yai.

There was one recent shootout in Cancun on the beach and it was considered a settling of accounts between gangsters. Tourists were not injured. Was it really that much different than the murder of Jimi Sandhu in Rawai , Phuket in 2022?   Please provide the Cancun shootouts in the past 3 years. Please reference the murders of  tourists that you believe has occurred.  There have been multiple  violent assaults and murders on foreigners in Phuket. A recent case was reported in  the Phuket News  Feb 13, 2023.  Every so often we get a flurry of  violent crime in Phuket. Sometimes it  is written about just like the fuss  over Cancun.  https://thethaiger.com/news/national/recent-crimes-in-phuket-are-damaging-its-reputation

Large tourists towns attract gangsters and opportunistic criminals.   Sure, parts of Mexico are dangerous for foreigners, but Cancun is not one of them. Parts of Thailand are no go zones for tourists too. It is inadvisable to go adventure seeking in the deep south or along the Myanmar border.

And yes, the fatality and injury rates due to vehicles is very germane. One is more likely to be injured or killed due to vehicle incident in Phuket than one is to be a victim of violent crime in Cancun.Thailand has the 2nd worst vehicular death and injury rate in the world. Even if Cancun was as dangerous as you insist, the reality is that a tourist is more likely to be killed or maimed or crippled by a Phuket driver. 

BTW, you should have a look at the problem of tourist rape in Thailand. Phuket has a problem in that area too.

I reference Tulum as a whole of Mexico

 

Listen I frequent both Phuket and Cancun

 

I've felt perfectly safe in Cancun but I am unwilling to take the chance anymore of getting near shootouts

 

That's my personal opinion

 

If you think otherwise, you obviously have that right

 

And again, you are poiting out things that are irrelevant to my opinion

I highly doubt any Thai guy is trying to rape me.

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:53 PM, Marc26 said:

And I don't know when or where the last time you were in Mexico but Thailand absolutely does not have the armed military presence roaming the streets that Mexico has

Maybe after the next election in Thailand ….. we may have that again. 

[Marc26]

9 hours ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

Maybe after the next election in Thailand ….. we may have that again. 

Sure

But that's even a good point

 

I was there for the coup

 

You could with 100% safety be in 75% of Bangkok and not have any fear of getting shot

 

Popular hotel and restaurants in tourist areas in Mexico and Cancun get shot up on a somewhat consistent basis

[Vigo]

Could you please provide an  example of  tourists who have been at risk during a hotel shootup in Cancun? Just as there are no hotel shootups in Phuket, there are none in Cancun.There can be family fights or sometimes a settling of accounts between gangsters in both Phuket and Cancun, but the public is not at risk.

Perhaps as an older male, one is not at risk of a sexual assault. Unfortunately, for females and young males, Phuket has a sexual assault problem (and it is under reported). The problem of older males is that they assume that if they are not at risk, then there isn't a risk.  Cancun's best beaches  are usually associated with the hotels and it is difficult to access  the beach if not staying at a hotel. Phuket is more egalitarian and beach access is easy for the riff raff, especially in Patong, Kata, Kamala and Karon.  Up near Laguna, the beaches are watched and closely associated with the hotels, so those Phuket beaches are  safe. Cancun is like a 1950's beach club with the exclusivity rules. When's the last time anyone saw Pedro and his wife and  5 kids making tamales on the beach? In Patong, Somkiat, kittikat,  Souljakat and the rest of the clan can be found on  the beach making a mess.

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, Vigo said:

Could you please provide an  example of  tourists who have been at risk during a hotel shootup in Cancun? Just as there are no hotel shootups in Phuket, there are none in Cancun.There can be family fights or sometimes a settling of accounts between gangsters in both Phuket and Cancun, but the public is not at risk.

Perhaps as an older male, one is not at risk of a sexual assault. Unfortunately, for females and young males, Phuket has a sexual assault problem (and it is under reported). The problem of older males is that they assume that if they are not at risk, then there isn't a risk.  Cancun's best beaches  are usually associated with the hotels and it is difficult to access  the beach if not staying at a hotel. Phuket is more egalitarian and beach access is easy for the riff raff, especially in Patong, Kata, Kamala and Karon.  Up near Laguna, the beaches are watched and closely associated with the hotels, so those Phuket beaches are  safe. Cancun is like a 1950's beach club with the exclusivity rules. When's the last time anyone saw Pedro and his wife and  5 kids making tamales on the beach? In Patong, Somkiat, kittikat,  Souljakat and the rest of the clan can be found on  the beach making a mess.

Hyatt Ziva Cancun 

As high end as it gets

Gang fight right in the resort 

 

 

 

This was literally weeks ago on Cancun beach

 

 

 

Cancun Beach 

 

 

How many more ya want?

 

I can mix it up and post Tulum, Playa Del Carmen, Peurto Morales shootings 

 

So just let me know how many you need me to post

 

Those took me less than 2mins

 

[Marc26]

Had an extra one lying around. 

 

 

 

[Marc26]

Not Cancun but just thought I'd throw this in

 

Gay dudes just wanted to see some birds 5555

 

 

 

[Marc26]

Dude was kidnapped in Cancun 6 months ago

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/10/14/american-dad-dustan-jackson-attached-with-machete-while-vacationing-in-cancun-report/amp/

[Marc26]

By the way

 

I can't stress enough how much I love Mexico

.I used to go any time I had a chance

 

Before Covid I was planning on spending extended time in Tulum (6-8× year)

 

But going to wait and see how it goes

 

I could head right to Holbox, which is a thought 

 

I absolutely love it there and no gang/cartel activity (yet)

[Vigo]

Thank you for the 4 references. You doubled up on the Hyatt, so actually 3 shooting incidents. Here's what differentiates these incidents from Phuket murders: No tourists were targeted. No tourists or foreign expats died. These were  gangster settling accounts. I do not dismiss the danger to  bystanders, but these were planned hits, no different than when the Hells Angels planted car bombs during their turf war in Australia/Canada, or when the mob takes out someone in NYC or New Jersey. Mob hits today typically feature similar scenarios at public dining venues in North America.  Now let's compare to Thailand. More foreigners get bumped off in Thailand.

- Jimi Sandhu Feb 2022 (an alleged drug cartel hit)

- Nicole Sauvain-Weisskopf brutally murdered (drowned) by a Thai (August 2021)

- Peter Hepell (Phuket expat, but Krabi resort owner) stabbed to death (April 2023), I won't classify this as a Phuket murder since it was in Krabi, but seeing how you want to throw  in proximate murders, here's an example.

- Maybe its the water currents off of Phuket but every so often there are  dead foreigners who are found on the beach, or dead and floating in the water off of Phuket. They die under mysterious circumstances. The most recent example  was December 2022;  A foreign couple found dead on the beach one day and 2 floaters in the ocean on another day. reference  https://www.newsflare.com/video/534637/four-foreigners-found-dead-floating-off-thai-holiday-island-phuket

- June 2022, A Russian woman  was found dead after a "fall from a balcony in Patong". 2 Arabs males  and a Russian woman were subsequently detained  in a murder investigation.

I acknowledge  that the potential for a  gang shootout in Cancun is more likely than in Phuket. The optics are terrible.  However, the reality is that a tourist is more likely to die while on holiday in Phuket than in Cancun.  Some of this is due to corruption and failure to uphold the law.  Phuket is the destination which has seen mass drownings because the  maritime safety regulations were not enforced (2018 Ferry sinking with 50 deaths. Investigation revealed inadequate number of life vests and fire extinguishers on board.) Phuket is also the airport where 89 pax  burnt to death in a crash on an aircraft that should not have been flying.  Mexico is just as corrupt, as Thailand, the difference is that  the corruption  typically kills Mexicans. In Thailand, the corruption kills tourists. Cancun is more likely to see enforcement of traffic  laws than  Phuket, and the failure to  uphold the traffic laws is one of the reasons why  there are  more  vehicle related deaths in Phuket.

If one is to compare Cancun and Phuket for tourist safety, one must look at the big picture.  It's like comparing Chernobyl district and Phuket : There is little  if any crime in Chernobyl and using the logic of the  media providers, one could argue that Chenobyl is therefore safer. The reality is that there is a  strong likelihood that a tourist will return from Phuket safe and sound. A week or more in the radioactive wasteland but crime free Chernobyl will most likely leave the visitor in a bad state.

[Marc26]

8 hours ago, Vigo said:

Thank you for the 4 references. You doubled up on the Hyatt, so actually 3 shooting incidents. Here's what differentiates these incidents from Phuket murders: No tourists were targeted. No tourists or foreign expats died. These were  gangster settling accounts. I do not dismiss the danger to  bystanders, but these were planned hits, no different than when the Hells Angels planted car bombs during their turf war in Australia/Canada, or when the mob takes out someone in NYC or New Jersey. Mob hits today typically feature similar scenarios at public dining venues in North America.  Now let's compare to Thailand. More foreigners get bumped off in Thailand.

- Jimi Sandhu Feb 2022 (an alleged drug cartel hit)

- Nicole Sauvain-Weisskopf brutally murdered (drowned) by a Thai (August 2021)

- Peter Hepell (Phuket expat, but Krabi resort owner) stabbed to death (April 2023), I won't classify this as a Phuket murder since it was in Krabi, but seeing how you want to throw  in proximate murders, here's an example.

- Maybe its the water currents off of Phuket but every so often there are  dead foreigners who are found on the beach, or dead and floating in the water off of Phuket. They die under mysterious circumstances. The most recent example  was December 2022;  A foreign couple found dead on the beach one day and 2 floaters in the ocean on another day. reference  https://www.newsflare.com/video/534637/four-foreigners-found-dead-floating-off-thai-holiday-island-phuket

- June 2022, A Russian woman  was found dead after a "fall from a balcony in Patong". 2 Arabs males  and a Russian woman were subsequently detained  in a murder investigation.

I acknowledge  that the potential for a  gang shootout in Cancun is more likely than in Phuket. The optics are terrible.  However, the reality is that a tourist is more likely to die while on holiday in Phuket than in Cancun.  Some of this is due to corruption and failure to uphold the law.  Phuket is the destination which has seen mass drownings because the  maritime safety regulations were not enforced (2018 Ferry sinking with 50 deaths. Investigation revealed inadequate number of life vests and fire extinguishers on board.) Phuket is also the airport where 89 pax  burnt to death in a crash on an aircraft that should not have been flying.  Mexico is just as corrupt, as Thailand, the difference is that  the corruption  typically kills Mexicans. In Thailand, the corruption kills tourists. Cancun is more likely to see enforcement of traffic  laws than  Phuket, and the failure to  uphold the traffic laws is one of the reasons why  there are  more  vehicle related deaths in Phuket.

If one is to compare Cancun and Phuket for tourist safety, one must look at the big picture.  It's like comparing Chernobyl district and Phuket : There is little  if any crime in Chernobyl and using the logic of the  media providers, one could argue that Chenobyl is therefore safer. The reality is that there is a  strong likelihood that a tourist will return from Phuket safe and sound. A week or more in the radioactive wasteland but crime free Chernobyl will most likely leave the visitor in a bad state.

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

Just when places I frequent are getting shot up

 

And some of the most popular bars and restaurants are closing because of the cartels, I decide to not risk being an innocent bystander

 

 

As mentioned above, I may still shoot Holbox Island, absolutely love it there

[Marc26]

And as @Vigo pointed out originally, Cancun and Mexico actually have better infrastructure than Thailand

 

That public bus in Cancun on the strip is excellent