News Forum - Christie’s to auction Austrian billionaire Heidi Horten’s jewellery collection

[Thaiger]

Christie’s auction house will commence the sale of hundreds of jewels that belonged to the late Austrian billionaire Heidi Horten, whose fortune was derived from her German businessman husband who amassed wealth during the Nazi era. The prestigious auction house will offer 700 lots from Horten’s collection, showcasing rare and exceptional pieces from renowned 20th-century …

The story Christie’s to auction Austrian billionaire Heidi Horten’s jewellery collection as seen on Thaiger News.

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[palooka]

tainted goods

[HolyCowCm]

6 minutes ago, palooka said:

tainted goods

I would have no problem with a few million dollars worth. Just would go to the Thai temple and all is forgiven. No, but I seriously would have zero problem. 

[Vigo]

1 hour ago, HolyCowCm said:

I would have no problem with a few million dollars worth. Just would go to the Thai temple and all is forgiven. No, but I seriously would have zero problem. 

You have no problem with what? Purchasing stolen property, or enjoying to proceeds of stolen property?

If the goods were indeed made available for purchase as the result of looting, then the proceeds should be donated back to the communities where the victims came from.  I have a problem  with much of what has passed for European art and jewellery collections in the possession of people who historically would not have had the wealth or social position to acquire such items.  Aside from Germany, much of Europe has made little effort to address this legacy. The man who amassed the fortune, Helmut Horten certainly profited from the Nazi period and there is no record of an expression of remorse or of compensation for the people he exploited.

[HolyCowCm]

1 hour ago, Vigo said:

You have no problem with what? Purchasing stolen property, or enjoying to proceeds of stolen property?

If the goods were indeed made available for purchase as the result of looting, then the proceeds should be donated back to the communities where the victims came from.  I have a problem  with much of what has passed for European art and jewellery collections in the possession of people who historically would not have had the wealth or social position to acquire such items.  Aside from Germany, much of Europe has made little effort to address this legacy. The man who amassed the fortune, Helmut Horten certainly profited from the Nazi period and there is no record of an expression of remorse or of compensation for the people he exploited.

Sorry but was a long time ago and I have zero problem with having a few million of it. Of course as I always am as a person as I give lots of people things would go back into society making our world a better place as I always do anyway . Even Christie’s isn’t donating their time for free and is only allocating a tiny portion of  their proceeds to try and look like the good people and rightly ok. This is only $150 million of jewelry and gems compared to a couple billion of the over all family worth. And after the war he was exonerated and there is no evidence otherwise, only speculation. So yeah, give me a few million worth of the jewelry and absolutely I would enjoy the finds from it to the utmost max. Why not! 

[Vigo]

7 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Sorry but was a long time ago and I have zero problem with having a few million of it. Of course as I always am as a person as I give lots of people things would go back into society making our world a better place as I always do anyway . Even Christie’s isn’t donating their time for free and is only allocating a tiny portion of  their proceeds to try and look like the good people and rightly ok. This is only $150 million of jewelry and gems compared to a couple billion of the over all family worth. And after the war he was exonerated and there is no evidence otherwise, only speculation. So yeah, give me a few million worth of the jewelry and absolutely I would enjoy the finds from it to the utmost max. Why not! 

It may have been  a "long time ago", but the reality was that thorough investigations were not done. Whether through intent or other complicity, crimes were ignored, and those responsible allowed to enjoy their ill gotten wealth. If you have no issue with the profiteering, then you will have no issue with the people currently profiting from the ongoing war in the Ukraine. Whether it it is those plundering from the Ukrainians, or those who rip off refugees fleeing Russia or who bust the sanctions selling and buying sanctioned goods it is  not much different than what Horton did.

Horton was not exonerated. His wife purchased a report that said there was limited evidence to prove him a war criminal. Your argument is that a 22 year old apprentice office clerk was able to purchase a department store in conjunction with a nazi  associated merchant bank,  at a below market value from its jewish owners, because of his business acumen and not because the owners had to sell quickly as they had reservations at a lovely "holiday camp", otherwise. Horton was further able to purchase other large retailers because the merchants all appreciated his retail genius, right? The Horton wealth is built on the  deaths and graves of innocent victims.     https://www.insider.com/christies-to-auction-jewelry-collection-nazi-sympathizer-helmut-horten-2023-4

In much of the civil world, there are laws that address the criminal proceeds of crime.  Because Horton was "anti communist" and had enough money to donate, the Austrian authorities looked the other way. Austria was notable for its refusal to hold its war criminals responsible. One of its more famous nazis was former UN General Secretary Kurt Waldheim, who covered up his war time fun in the Balkans. Heidi Horton started bankrolling the  OVP political party in 2018. She sent monthly donations of under Euro 49,000 which were below the Euro 50,000 reporting regulation. The OVP is an extremist right wing political party.  That should give a good idea of her political sentiments.

[HolyCowCm]

7 hours ago, Vigo said:

It may have been  a "long time ago", but the reality was that thorough investigations were not done. Whether through intent or other complicity, crimes were ignored, and those responsible allowed to enjoy their ill gotten wealth. If you have no issue with the profiteering, then you will have no issue with the people currently profiting from the ongoing war in the Ukraine. Whether it it is those plundering from the Ukrainians, or those who rip off refugees fleeing Russia or who bust the sanctions selling and buying sanctioned goods it is  not much different than what Horton did.

Horton was not exonerated. His wife purchased a report that said there was limited evidence to prove him a war criminal. Your argument is that a 22 year old apprentice office clerk was able to purchase a department store in conjunction with a nazi  associated merchant bank,  at a below market value from its jewish owners, because of his business acumen and not because the owners had to sell quickly as they had reservations at a lovely "holiday camp", otherwise. Horton was further able to purchase other large retailers because the merchants all appreciated his retail genius, right? The Horton wealth is built on the  deaths and graves of innocent victims.     https://www.insider.com/christies-to-auction-jewelry-collection-nazi-sympathizer-helmut-horten-2023-4

In much of the civil world, there are laws that address the criminal proceeds of crime.  Because Horton was "anti communist" and had enough money to donate, the Austrian authorities looked the other way. Austria was notable for its refusal to hold its war criminals responsible. One of its more famous nazis was former UN General Secretary Kurt Waldheim, who covered up his war time fun in the Balkans. Heidi Horton started bankrolling the  OVP political party in 2018. She sent monthly donations of under Euro 49,000 which were below the Euro 50,000 reporting regulation. The OVP is an extremist right wing political party.  That should give a good idea of her political sentiments.

I don't really need a history lesson or anything explained to me, but thank you for statitng your set of facts and personal opinions. Nothing is forgotten from the past and please don't put your logic sprouting into today's ugly world format because if you really see it that way then we can take it as far back in history and everything to current. Have yu every put someone down or taken advantage of someone for your own pleasure or advancement? I would think o at some time in your life you have. All related to Naricissm and Narcissists are the top of the heap for the biggest attrocities ever. Pick a bad time or any event in life and it is more than likely a narcissist behind it. Look at the Facebook CEO and how he got his power. As stated millions of events not just htis one. But those are ok?

[Vigo]

4 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

I don't really need a history lesson or anything explained to me, but thank you for statitng your set of facts and personal opinions. Nothing is forgotten from the past and please don't put your logic sprouting into today's ugly world format because if you really see it that way then we can take it as far back in history and everything to current. Have yu every put someone down or taken advantage of someone for your own pleasure or advancement? I would think o at some time in your life you have. All related to Naricissm and Narcissists are the top of the heap for the biggest attrocities ever. Pick a bad time or any event in life and it is more than likely a narcissist behind it. Look at the Facebook CEO and how he got his power. As stated millions of events not just htis one. But those are ok?

This is not about Facebook and the unproven allegations of  2 opportunists. It is most definitely a case of consistency. Your logic holds that  we should not investigate crimes because they just happened or that they were long ago. It is also most definitely applicable to what we do today. One can not purport to hold Russia liable and responsible for alleged war crimes in the Ukraine today, if one ignores war crimes of the recent past. T The fact is that  Heidi Horten's jewellery collection has a past and was apparently gained through  questionable means, not simple "taking advantage" of an opportunity.  Horten's wealth was also used to fund an extremist right wing group that advocated measures contrary to the basic human rights principles of much of the free world.