Retirement Visa Expiring - Options Requested

[oldschooler]

I am working in UK with Family Visits to my Thailand Home and Family every three months. I will next enter Thailand 29 April and leave 14 May. Then again August and December. My present Retirement Visa, with ME Visa,Expires 12 May 23. I do not on principle deal directly with Thai Immigration for Any Long Stay Visa not wish to meet any Long Stay Visa Financials.I do not wish to marry here. No Ed Visa over 50 now I am told.

Normally I pay 22,000 baht at local reliable visa agent with bank book, for Retirement Visa. No Immy Visits to get messed around at.

Now to renew (after recent visa scandals) I can do same but must also inconveniently travel back and forth to Pattaya Immigration. 
 
Will I get any three month visa extension when entering 29 April with 12 May Expiry? 
I am advised by my visa agent that without Long Stay Visa I can enter Visa Waiver Twice in 12 months then get Tourist Visa Online for third entry then Visa Waiver etc. 

No Lectures Required. Expert Informed Comments Only Please. Thanks.

[Faz]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

I am working in UK with Family Visits to my Thailand Home and Family every three months.

You're not married, but have Thai family - explain?
Children? Born inside or outside of wedlock?

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

My present Retirement Visa, with ME Visa,Expires 12 May 23. I do not on principle deal directly with Thai Immigration for Any Long Stay Visa not wish to meet any Long Stay Visa Financials.I do not wish to marry here. No Ed Visa over 50 now I am told.

Normally I pay 22,000 baht at local reliable visa agent with bank book, for Retirement Visa. No Immy Visits to get messed around at.

You're extending your stay, a permit, not a Visa.
A Visa cannot be extended, it has an issue and enter before date.
https://talk.thethaiger.com/topic/1652-visa-or-extension-of-stay/#comment-5567

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Now to renew (after recent visa scandals) I can do same but must also inconveniently travel back and forth to Pattaya Immigration. 

Why?

 

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Will I get any three month visa extension when entering 29 April with 12 May Expiry? 

No. When your current permission of stay ends (May 12th) you must leave and re-enter to obtain further permission of stay. Only if you have Thai family could you apply for a 60-day extension.

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

I am advised by my visa agent that without Long Stay Visa I can enter Visa Waiver Twice in 12 months then get Tourist Visa Online for third entry then Visa Waiver etc. 

Wrong.
Only land border crossings are limited to 2 Visa exempt entries per calendar year.
By air, the only limit entering Visa exempt is when an Immigration officer deems your entering too frequently to be a genuine tourist.
Visa exempt entry currently permits a stay of 30 days, but can be extended for a further 30 days.

Just exactly how many times per calendar year do you intend to enter and for what lengths of stay.

[oldschooler]

8 hours ago, Faz said:

You're not married, but have Thai family - explain?
Children? Born inside or outside of wedlock?

You're extending your stay, a permit, not a Visa.
A Visa cannot be extended, it has an issue and enter before date.
https://talk.thethaiger.com/topic/1652-visa-or-extension-of-stay/#comment-5567

Why?

No. When your current permission of stay ends (May 12th) you must leave and re-enter to obtain further permission of stay. Only if you have Thai family could you apply for a 60-day extension.

Wrong.
Only land border crossings are limited to 2 Visa exempt entries per calendar year.
By air, the only limit entering Visa exempt is when an Immigration officer deems your entering too frequently to be a genuine tourist.
Visa exempt entry currently permits a stay of 30 days, but can be extended for a further 30 days.

Just exactly how many times per calendar year do you intend to enter and for what lengths of stay.

Son with Thai and Western Passports. Never Married Here.

When entering 14 days before Retirement Stay Expiry will I get a 30 day stay stamp ?

 If I get an Online Tourist Visa can I still be Denied Entry if “ too many visits” or “ too long in Thailand” or “too

many visas / extensions” Had only one Covid Extension. Visa Waiver seems risky otherwise.

[Faz]

4 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Son with Thai and Western Passports. Never Married Here.

Under Thai law, when a child is born out of wedlock, unless you have a Court Order giving you parental and custody rights, then Thai Immigration would not accept you as being the legitimate father.
Parental Rights as a Father.odt 
Strange phenomena, but Thai Embassies in other Countries would accept the birth certificate (if you're named on it) as being the legitimate Father, whilst local Immigration offices within Thailand would not.

However, it appears you apply for Visas and extensions of stay based on 'retirement', not Thai family.
 

4 hours ago, oldschooler said:

When entering 14 days before Retirement Stay Expiry will I get a 30 day stay stamp ?

No, Thai Immigration will use your re-entry permit to calculate your permission of stay.
You could request, as it's less than 30 days, then ignore the permit and grant you a 30-day stamp, but it's completely at their discretion.
Regardless, you can extend that stay for a further 30 days anyway.

 

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

If I get an Online Tourist Visa can I still be Denied Entry if “ too many visits” or “ too long in Thailand” or “too

It would be unusual to deny entry with a valid TV, but yes, if they feel you are spending too much time in Thailand as a 'Tourist', they could deny entry, but would initially first warn you to obtain the correct Visa for your purpose of entries, which is what you currently have, a 1-year extension with a multiple re-entry permit.

How many times do you intend to enter Thailand and for what periods throughout a calendar year ?
For 4 visits of less than 30 days, one TV and 3 VE entries should be OK.
I recommend, though, you carry copies of your son's birth certificate and Passports as evidence of why you visit so frequently.

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Faz said:

Under Thai law, when a child is born out of wedlock, unless you have a Court Order giving you parental and custody rights, then Thai Immigration would not accept you as being the legitimate father.
Parental Rights as a Father.odt 
Strange phenomena, but Thai Embassies in other Countries would accept the birth certificate (if you're named on it) as being the legitimate Father, whilst local Immigration offices within Thailand would not.

However, it appears you apply for Visas and extensions of stay based on 'retirement', not Thai family.
 

No, Thai Immigration will use your re-entry permit to calculate your permission of stay.
You could request, as it's less than 30 days, then ignore the permit and grant you a 30-day stamp, but it's completely at their discretion.
Regardless, you can extend that stay for a further 30 days anyway.

It would be unusual to deny entry with a valid TV, but yes, if they feel you are spending too much time in Thailand as a 'Tourist', they could deny entry, but would initially first warn you to obtain the correct Visa for your purpose of entries, which is what you currently have, a 1-year extension with a multiple re-entry permit.

How many times do you intend to enter Thailand and for what periods throughout a calendar year ?
For 4 visits of less than 30 days, one TV and 3 VE entries should be OK.
I recommend, though, you carry copies of your son's birth certificate and Passports as evidence of why you visit so frequently.

Perfect Faz thanks. My Immi brain kicked in properly last night after resting from UK return and processing your initial responses and I had then already come to same conclusions as your above final three final paragraphs ! Good to get those essential confirmations though.

Note that I have already had one three month Family Stay Extension from Local Immigration as Father of Thai Son against yes his Birth Certificate with myself as Named Father. His Passports also have my family name as his too.

I also have a second UK Passport in same name with no Thai entry history.

If I presented that to Thai Immigration anywhere would their computers still flag up my other passport thai entry history or simply treat me as a “ virgin” Thai entrant ? 

[Faz]

4 hours ago, oldschooler said:

I also have a second UK Passport in same name with no Thai entry history.

If I presented that to Thai Immigration anywhere would their computers still flag up my other passport thai entry history or simply treat me as a “ virgin” Thai entrant ? 

The system checks against your name, nationality, DOB and passport number.
3 out of 4 matches may rase suspicions, but if you've never been arrested or deported, it should be OK.

I know a chap who was arrested, deported and banned from re-entry.
He was of the opinion obtaining a new passport would circumvent the system.
However, he was refused boarding in the UK for being blacklisted.

[Gord]

On 4/17/2023 at 7:47 AM, Faz said:

Under Thai law, when a child is born out of wedlock, unless you have a Court Order giving you parental and custody rights, then Thai Immigration would not accept you as being the legitimate father.
Parental Rights as a Father.odt 
Strange phenomena, but Thai Embassies in other Countries would accept the birth certificate (if you're named on it) as being the legitimate Father, whilst local Immigration offices within Thailand would not.

However, it appears you apply for Visas and extensions of stay based on 'retirement', not Thai family.
 

No, Thai Immigration will use your re-entry permit to calculate your permission of stay.
You could request, as it's less than 30 days, then ignore the permit and grant you a 30-day stamp, but it's completely at their discretion.
Regardless, you can extend that stay for a further 30 days anyway.

It would be unusual to deny entry with a valid TV, but yes, if they feel you are spending too much time in Thailand as a 'Tourist', they could deny entry, but would initially first warn you to obtain the correct Visa for your purpose of entries, which is what you currently have, a 1-year extension with a multiple re-entry permit.

How many times do you intend to enter Thailand and for what periods throughout a calendar year ?
For 4 visits of less than 30 days, one TV and 3 VE entries should be OK.
I recommend, though, you carry copies of your son's birth certificate and Passports as evidence of why you visit so frequently.

Not trying to derail subject of thread.

Regarding child out of wedlock with Thai lady not being considered a Farang's legal child for immigration and stay purposes.

I would think that strategy was tried and exploited many times in the past.

Similar to South American pregnant women trekking across Southern US border in order to give birth on American soil to reap those benefits that a dual citizen baby would bring (Mx/US).

Anchor baby.

I wonder if a farang lady enters thailand and has a baby is she then legally allowed to stay and work to support the baby?

Edited June 15, 2023 by Gord
spelling error

[Pinetree]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:42 PM, oldschooler said:

I also have a second UK Passport in same name with no Thai entry history.

How?  Is this a new, replacement passport, as its not possible to hold 2 valid UK passports?  

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, Pinetree said:

How?  Is this a new, replacement passport, as its not possible to hold 2 valid UK passports?  

It’s allowed when working in various shithole countries where you’re near constantly processing for 3- month business visas AND need to travel to other places…just write a letter to Passport Office , they never check.