Weed in Thailand; lessons and ideas from Canada

[Shade_Wilder]

In June last year, Thailand removed weed from its list of very harmful drugs, but inexplicably did not enact proper legislation governing its use at the same time 

It is a clusterf**k.

I am a very strong supporter of Thailand's decision to decriminalize. Yup, I indulged... ahem... er... 'often' in my youth and still indulge now, albeit very rarely. Moreover, I am a long-time sufferer of insomnia and use weed as an occasional sleep aid. That said, the main reason that I support legalization is I think it is the height of stupidity to have smoking weed as a criminal offense; I have double handfuls of nieces and nephews in the 17-27 y/o range, and giving one of them a criminal record for weed would be dumber than 42 bags of hammers. Finally, I wish that Thailand would stop this nonsense of trying to distinguish between medical usage and recreational usage; it is a distinction that simply can't be maintained over time and it is a waste of effort and resources to try.

In spite of the above, I would also like to see Thailand enact proper legislation governing weed, setting reasonable limits on cultivation, sales, quality, packaging, labeling and availability.

Canada legalized weed a few years ago and is undertaking a review of the law(s) as part of an on-going attempt to get it right; Thailand might want to observe the practice in Canada, and perhaps other jurisdictions, before finally setting out a reasonable law governing usage in the kingdom (note; it might already be too late for that). The Canadian government set out terms for the review in a document last fall and the introduction states;

A review of the Cannabis Act

The Minister of Health and the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions have launched a review of the Cannabis Act. Pursuant to the Act, the objective of this review will be to assess its impacts on public health, including:

• the health and consumption habits of youth
• Indigenous persons and communities, and
• the cultivation of cannabis plants in a dwelling-house

In addition, the review will assess progress made towards achieving the purposes of the Act. Specifically, the review will focus on assessing the seven key objectives set out in section 7 of the Act:

• protect the health of youth by restricting their access to cannabis
• protect youth and others from inducements to use cannabis
• provide for the licit production of cannabis to reduce illegal activities in relation to cannabis
• deter illegal activities through appropriate sanctions and enforcement measures
• reduce the burden on the criminal justice system in relation to cannabis
• provide access to a quality-controlled supply of cannabis
• enhance public awareness of the health risks associated with cannabis use

The legislative review will also include an evaluation of patients' reasonable access to cannabis for medical purposes in light of cannabis legalization for non-medical purposes, including the role of personal and designated cannabis production.

It is a 25 page report; if you are interested in this subject, it is worth your time and an informative read.

I also include an excellent article from the CBC (Canada's version of the more famous BBC) outlining many of the current issues and challenges.

Links; (start with the CBC article, then the government report if still interested)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cannabis-act-review-industry-changes-1.6688485

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/programs/engaging-cannabis-legalization-regulation-canada-taking-stock-progress/document.html

[Rookiescot]

I absolutely agree with you but (and I have said the elsewhere on here) I worry about the strength of the weed available today compared to when we were youths.

I do think that needs to be controlled. Not to the extent where the only legal weed would be pointless but I would not allow some of those really strong types.

How would that be policed? Yeah thats a kicker. Weed would only be legally available from licensed premises which can only sell approved strains.

Would it work? I have my own strong reservations about it to be honest but what we had didn't work and what we have now does not work either so the bar is not set very high (see what I did there?).

[Shade_Wilder]

  On 2/25/2023 at 10:50 AM, Rookiescot said:

I absolutely agree with you but (and I have said the elsewhere on here) I worry about the strength of the weed available today compared to when we were youths.

I do think that needs to be controlled. Not to the extent where the only legal weed would be pointless but I would not allow some of those really strong types.

How would that be policed? Yeah thats a kicker. Weed would only be legally available from licensed premises which can only sell approved strains.

Would it work? I have my own strong reservations about it to be honest but what we had didn't work and what we have now does not work either so the bar is not set very high (see what I did there?).

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I very much agree.

When things first became legal and the first shops opened, I bought a selection of strains to try out; anyone in country who used to smoke in their younger days and denies doing the same is... untrustworthy in my books.  

I bought about 5 different selections and tried them all, but still have the bags sitting in my fridge; I never finished them. They were too strong, I didn't like them and for the most part they just put me to sleep. I understand why some people in the Kingdom are getting sick, and wholeheartedly agree that it is an issue/problem that better labeling and proper public education would fix.

As I noted in my OP, I strongly support legalization, but I equally strongly support Public Education campaigns to teach people how to use it correctly.

Most of all, I support the end of the criminality aspect; no one should get a record for burning a plant.

[yselmike]

Somebody I knew died of covid last year,when his wife was cleaning out the garage she found a bag of buds in the freezer.She didn't know what to do with it,she asked me if I wanted it so I said ok.This is in the Netherlands by the way,drugs are available! I stopped smoking around 1980 because it did not mix with my growing alcohol addiction and love of marching powder.I grind the buds and smoke it in a kif pipe,it puts me on my arse,I  like it but I can't function in any meaningful way,it's just headphones on, music or something on Netflix or HBO.I was curious when I was in Thailand in Dec/Jan but it was expensive and the hotels don't seem to like it being smoked in their rooms,the Symia on Sukhumvit had a big notice in the lifts 5000baht fine for cleaning and fumigating the room.Most stoners like me just sit around and not do anything,maybe raid the fridge and the biscuit tin.Its going to put a dent in alcohol sales,maybe, and that won't go down well.Its extreme what the government has done from illegal to a free for all,and a lot if not all is in the black economy,it must be nigh on impossible to tax it. stoners hanging about in bars smoking expensive weed and nursing a beer is not going to bring in the income,that the people who have opened the glittery new "lounges" that have popped up everywhere are hoping for.

[Rookiescot]

  On 2/25/2023 at 11:54 AM, yselmike said:

Somebody I knew died of covid last year,when his wife was cleaning out the garage she found a bag of buds in the freezer.She didn't know what to do with it,she asked me if I wanted it so I said ok.This is in the Netherlands by the way,drugs are available! I stopped smoking around 1980 because it did not mix with my growing alcohol addiction and love of marching powder.I grind the buds and smoke it in a kif pipe,it puts me on my arse,I  like it but I can't function in any meaningful way,it's just headphones on, music or something on Netflix or HBO.I was curious when I was in Thailand in Dec/Jan but it was expensive and the hotels don't seem to like it being smoked in their rooms,the Symia on Sukhumvit had a big notice in the lifts 5000baht fine for cleaning and fumigating the room.Most stoners like me just sit around and not do anything,maybe raid the fridge and the biscuit tin.Its going to put a dent in alcohol sales,maybe, and that won't go down well.Its extreme what the government has done from illegal to a free for all,and a lot if not all is in the black economy,it must be nigh on impossible to tax it. stoners hanging about in bars smoking expensive weed and nursing a beer is not going to bring in the income,that the people who have opened the glittery new "lounges" that have popped up everywhere are hoping for.

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I used to be in the Netherlands quite often in the late 80's. Loved the place. But you are all too tall and that needs fixed.

Anyway we were often in a cafe where the local dealer had his business. All above board with licenses. 

So usually we would be in there buying our usual Afghan or what have you and on one occasion he gave me a bag of stuff called Skunk for free.

Jesus H Christ. I was tripping for hours. And this is just weed? Never again. I like a buzz but I dont want it shutting me down.

[TheDirtyDurian]

Clear labeling of thc%, and age restrictions on purchase. That's all you need really. 

People learn what works for them and what doesn't. 

It's no different to booze. I can buy absinthe at 80% if I want but I choose not to coz I know I'm not going to enjoy it. 

So label the thc% clearly and we can all choose what we like. 

[Vigo]

Canada Cannabis has been an unmitigated financial disaster for most of the initial investors and remaining producers/operators. I think one is hard hardpressed to name one entity that is actually making a profit. Companies once feverishly promoted like  Canopy Growth Corp., one of Canada's largest cannabis producers, just laid of 1/3 of its workforce and closing facilities.  Canada's largest public cannabis companies have all posted massive financial losses; Tilray Brands CAD (507 million), SNDL CAD (200 million), Terrascend CAD (421 million), Aurora Cannabis CAD (1.38 billion).  These companies can't continue to bleed like this.

The problem Thailand will face is the same as in Canada and the same that applies to  Tobacco. Governments think they can tax cannabis and reap a windfall profit. Well they can't. 1/3 of Cannabis is in Canada is still purchased through the illicit market, because chronic users don't like to pay tax and want cheap product, even if the quality is dubious.

And soon will come the product liability litigation. Many of the beneficial promises made about cannabis were done without benefit of reliable clinical trials.  New studies are being released that shows that smoking  cannabis is more harmful or as harmful as tobacco.  (For example; Chest CT Findings in Marijuana Smokers, Luke Murtha , Paul Sathiadoss, Jean-Paul Salameh, Matthew D. F. Mcinnes, Giselle Revah,  Nov 15 2022 Journal of Radiology; (chest CT used to investigate the effects of marijuana smoking in the lung with conclusion that Airway inflammation and emphysema were more common in marijuana smokers than in nonsmokers and tobacco-only smokers- with more study required to allow for definitive statement)

It is expected that the cannabis product liability litigation will rival opioid and tobacco litigation. There is no case to be made as to the viability or profitability of a cannabis operation outside of the government monopoly.

[Marc26]

  On 2/25/2023 at 6:59 PM, Vigo said:

Canada Cannabis has been an unmitigated financial disaster for most of the initial investors and remaining producers/operators. I think one is hard hardpressed to name one entity that is actually making a profit. Companies once feverishly promoted like  Canopy Growth Corp., one of Canada's largest cannabis producers, just laid of 1/3 of its workforce and closing facilities.  Canada's largest public cannabis companies have all posted massive financial losses; Tilray Brands CAD (507 million), SNDL CAD (200 million), Terrascend CAD (421 million), Aurora Cannabis CAD (1.38 billion).  These companies can't continue to bleed like this.

The problem Thailand will face is the same as in Canada and the same that applies to  Tobacco. Governments think they can tax cannabis and reap a windfall profit. Well they can't. 1/3 of Cannabis is in Canada is still purchased through the illicit market, because chronic users don't like to pay tax and want cheap product, even if the quality is dubious.

And soon will come the product liability litigation. Many of the beneficial promises made about cannabis were done without benefit of reliable clinical trials.  New studies are being released that shows that smoking  cannabis is more harmful or as harmful as tobacco.  (For example; Chest CT Findings in Marijuana Smokers, Luke Murtha , Paul Sathiadoss, Jean-Paul Salameh, Matthew D. F. Mcinnes, Giselle Revah,  Nov 15 2022 Journal of Radiology; (chest CT used to investigate the effects of marijuana smoking in the lung with conclusion that Airway inflammation and emphysema were more common in marijuana smokers than in nonsmokers and tobacco-only smokers- with more study required to allow for definitive statement)

It is expected that the cannabis product liability litigation will rival opioid and tobacco litigation. There is no case to be made as to the viability or profitability of a cannabis operation outside of the government monopoly.

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You can get extremely cheap weed of the Govt website 

[Karolyn]

Weed is next to harmless, and it's embarrassing it was ever illegal. And its very shameful indeed, if terminally ill people were denied medicinal cannabis. 

Coca is more of a conundrum. Look at the damage crack does, individually and cumulatively. Look at the ecological damage done by cocaine plantations - if it were legal, an equivalent to big oil and big pharmacy, would begin justifying that.

But coca tea is remarkable. I had two cups of coca tea, then went upstairs - without thinking - to the edge of a balcony . And I'm scared of heights, but the mild dose of coca in the infusion, literally suppressed my fear, rather than helping me overcome it. I didn't think of walking so close to the edge, and that's of neurological significance, I'm sure 

I didn't even realise till I was at the edge of the balcony, that I wasn't even anxious. The coca shut off the fear response normally would make me hate going up there.

So coca wod be extremely beneficial for people in the emergency services for example. That and it has a traditional use, that aids walking stamina and endurance. 

Discussing marijuana and it's legalisation is passe, and is for p*****s. Obviously the legalisation of coca would likewise have inestimable benefits, even far more than with pot, bit also costs.

[Jamey27]

  On 2/25/2023 at 10:50 AM, Rookiescot said:

I absolutely agree with you but (and I have said the elsewhere on here) I worry about the strength of the weed available today compared to when we were youths.

I do think that needs to be controlled. Not to the extent where the only legal weed would be pointless but I would not allow some of those really strong types.

How would that be policed? Yeah thats a kicker. Weed would only be legally available from licensed premises which can only sell approved strains.

Would it work? I have my own strong reservations about it to be honest but what we had didn't work and what we have now does not work either so the bar is not set very high (see what I did there?).

Expand  

The “strength”?? C’mon boomer 

[Rookiescot]

  On 7/14/2023 at 10:10 AM, Jamey27 said:

The “strength”?? C’mon boomer 

Expand  

Yes the THC content. Did no-one explain this too you? Maybe a grown up can help.

BTW I am not a boomer either.

Good effort resurrecting a necro post though. Have a cookie.

[HolyCowCm]

  On 7/14/2023 at 11:34 AM, Rookiescot said:

Yes the THC content. Did no-one explain this too you? Maybe a grown up can help.

BTW I am not a boomer either.

Good effort resurrecting a necro post though. Have a cookie.

Expand  

I remember back in the day panama red. And real thai stick before it became crap. This was before green but both very lethal f u up. 

[Marc26]

  On 7/14/2023 at 11:34 AM, Rookiescot said:

Yes the THC content. Did no-one explain this too you? Maybe a grown up can help.

BTW I am not a boomer either.

Good effort resurrecting a necro post though. Have a cookie.

Expand  

But I would contend that yes the THC can be stronger but it's much better quality weed

And you actually know what you are getting vs just "buying weed" like we did in the old days

[oldschooler]

  On 2/25/2023 at 10:38 AM, Shade_Wilder said:

In June last year, Thailand removed weed from its list of very harmful drugs, but inexplicably did not enact proper legislation governing its use at the same time 

It is a clusterf**k.

I am a very strong supporter of Thailand's decision to decriminalize. Yup, I indulged... ahem... er... 'often' in my youth and still indulge now, albeit very rarely. Moreover, I am a long-time sufferer of insomnia and use weed as an occasional sleep aid. That said, the main reason that I support legalization is I think it is the height of stupidity to have smoking weed as a criminal offense; I have double handfuls of nieces and nephews in the 17-27 y/o range, and giving one of them a criminal record for weed would be dumber than 42 bags of hammers. Finally, I wish that Thailand would stop this nonsense of trying to distinguish between medical usage and recreational usage; it is a distinction that simply can't be maintained over time and it is a waste of effort and resources to try.

In spite of the above, I would also like to see Thailand enact proper legislation governing weed, setting reasonable limits on cultivation, sales, quality, packaging, labeling and availability.

Canada legalized weed a few years ago and is undertaking a review of the law(s) as part of an on-going attempt to get it right; Thailand might want to observe the practice in Canada, and perhaps other jurisdictions, before finally setting out a reasonable law governing usage in the kingdom (note; it might already be too late for that). The Canadian government set out terms for the review in a document last fall and the introduction states;

A review of the Cannabis Act

The Minister of Health and the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions have launched a review of the Cannabis Act. Pursuant to the Act, the objective of this review will be to assess its impacts on public health, including:

• the health and consumption habits of youth
• Indigenous persons and communities, and
• the cultivation of cannabis plants in a dwelling-house

In addition, the review will assess progress made towards achieving the purposes of the Act. Specifically, the review will focus on assessing the seven key objectives set out in section 7 of the Act:

• protect the health of youth by restricting their access to cannabis
• protect youth and others from inducements to use cannabis
• provide for the licit production of cannabis to reduce illegal activities in relation to cannabis
• deter illegal activities through appropriate sanctions and enforcement measures
• reduce the burden on the criminal justice system in relation to cannabis
• provide access to a quality-controlled supply of cannabis
• enhance public awareness of the health risks associated with cannabis use

The legislative review will also include an evaluation of patients' reasonable access to cannabis for medical purposes in light of cannabis legalization for non-medical purposes, including the role of personal and designated cannabis production.

It is a 25 page report; if you are interested in this subject, it is worth your time and an informative read.

I also include an excellent article from the CBC (Canada's version of the more famous BBC) outlining many of the current issues and challenges.

Links; (start with the CBC article, then the government report if still interested)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cannabis-act-review-industry-changes-1.6688485

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/programs/engaging-cannabis-legalization-regulation-canada-taking-stock-progress/document.html

Expand  

Would personally not only decriminalise all kinds of drugs but make them freely available to all adults at govt. corner shops with regulated 100%pure quality. Make Clear the lethal consequences of even one dose of pure Cocaine or Heroin and psychogenic affects of even one dose of pure Cannabis. Sign Suicide Note ….. Partake.

This practice would Remove All Drug Related Crime ….. all related Health Care Expenses…..and remove stupid weak- willed doomed adults from population……. 

[NorskTiger]

  On 2/25/2023 at 6:59 PM, Vigo said:

Canada Cannabis has been an unmitigated financial disaster for most of the initial investors and remaining producers/operators. I think one is hard hardpressed to name one entity that is actually making a profit. Companies once feverishly promoted like  Canopy Growth Corp., one of Canada's largest cannabis producers, just laid of 1/3 of its workforce and closing facilities.  Canada's largest public cannabis companies have all posted massive financial losses; Tilray Brands CAD (507 million), SNDL CAD (200 million), Terrascend CAD (421 million), Aurora Cannabis CAD (1.38 billion).  These companies can't continue to bleed like this.

The problem Thailand will face is the same as in Canada and the same that applies to  Tobacco. Governments think they can tax cannabis and reap a windfall profit. Well they can't. 1/3 of Cannabis is in Canada is still purchased through the illicit market, because chronic users don't like to pay tax and want cheap product, even if the quality is dubious.

And soon will come the product liability litigation. Many of the beneficial promises made about cannabis were done without benefit of reliable clinical trials.  New studies are being released that shows that smoking  cannabis is more harmful or as harmful as tobacco.  (For example; Chest CT Findings in Marijuana Smokers, Luke Murtha , Paul Sathiadoss, Jean-Paul Salameh, Matthew D. F. Mcinnes, Giselle Revah,  Nov 15 2022 Journal of Radiology; (chest CT used to investigate the effects of marijuana smoking in the lung with conclusion that Airway inflammation and emphysema were more common in marijuana smokers than in nonsmokers and tobacco-only smokers- with more study required to allow for definitive statement)

It is expected that the cannabis product liability litigation will rival opioid and tobacco litigation. There is no case to be made as to the viability or profitability of a cannabis operation outside of the government monopoly.

Expand  

  I'm not foreign for the thought that Cannabis can have some adverse effects, but a radiology report is neither a rigorous study  nor something free of major confounding effects. 

    Speaking of tobacco, there is little to no doubt how harmful it is to heart, lungs, skin, mutagenicity (causing cancers) and even the endocrine system. 

     The two agents are  not anywhere in the same league, at least not based on accumulated evidence. 

[oldschooler]

  On 12/8/2023 at 6:15 PM, NorskTiger said:

  I'm not foreign for the thought that Cannabis can have some adverse effects, but a radiology report is neither a rigorous study  nor something free of major confounding effects. 

    Speaking of tobacco, there is little to no doubt how harmful it is to heart, lungs, skin, mutagenicity (causing cancers) and even the endocrine system. 

     The two agents are  not anywhere in the same league, at least not based on accumulated evidence. 

Expand  

Cannabis is a psychoactive drug ( as is cocaine & crack). It won’t cause cancer but …….“Cannabis has various mental and physical effects, which include euphoria, altered states of mind and sense of time, difficulty concentrating, impaired short-term memory, impaired body movement (balance and fine psychomotor control)” (Wikipedia). Cannabis overuse seems linked to mental illness, petty crime & violent crime.

[TWS60]

Routine Cannabis also comes with some withdrawals.  Takes about 1 week to get through.  The dreams were vivid, mine contained mild violence/confrontation.