The Sandbox Guarantee – taking the ‘what ifs’ out of travelling to Thailand

[AussieBob]

6 minutes ago, DonnaM said:

I do not see the point of moving someone who has been fully vaccinated, and tested negative, to an ALQ hotel, simply because she was in close contact with someone who tested positive. Surely the point of the sandbox model is to allow a return to some normality for fully vaccinated individuals? If a further safety measure had to be imposed, then why could the individual just stay in the room already booked for a further 3 days until another test was carried out then let them carry on with their holiday if it was negative again. Moving to an ALQ in this instance is ridiculous and pointless. This will deter travelers to Phuket for sure. 
we have changed our plans several times and are due to arrive in Phuket in 5 weeks, we seriously hope they sort this situation out. 
 

I lost you at  ......  "surely the point of the sandbox model is to allow a return ..............."

I hear your frustrations but in my opinion you should cancel if you have paid - before the automatic refunds are stopped - if they have not been already. The next 2-4 weeks and into the following month will reveal what happens to the Phuket Sandbox - but the prognosis is as bad as a 100 year old with Covid.

The point of the sandbox was to make money for the owners of all the tourist business in Phuket, and to give employment to the local Thai people as a result of that first priority.  Planning and thinking ahead was done on that basis - counting the tourists and the money . Or as the saying goes - they were busy counting the number of chickens, before the eggs had even hatched - and the roost has a huge hole in the roof.  

[AussieBob]

10 minutes ago, S2k said:

Great opinion piece!  The way that these sandboxers are being treated is really off-putting.  Right before this positive case, I was ready to book my stay, and go to see my fiance. Now, there's too much risk of being shuttled off to ALQ at my own expense. Typical Thai governement CRAP

I know what you mean - Complete Retar**s And Pri***s (CRAP)

[AussieBob]

8 minutes ago, Bonanzo said:

I have no sympathy for anyone who complains about rain in Phuket in July. That is Phuket as I know it in the rainy season.

I am on day 2 of my sandbox stay. I arrived yesterday in pouring rain and it has barely stopped since.

However, no complaints. My negative PCR test came in the same day, in time for me to go to the restaurant for dinner. I have a wonderful hotel room overlooking the ocean, I have plenty of good books, and when it does stop raining I will head to the golf courses.

Having said I would suspect the "genuine" tourist would not be so happy, especially knowing the risks now being exposed.

But then how many genuine tourists are there? I suspect not many.

My guess is the vast majority of sandboxers are like me, using it as a means to get back into Thailand for family or other reasons without having to endure the dreaded 14 day lock up in an ASQ hotel room.

You are dead right there - exactly the reality of the situation. Real tourists should listen up - the sandbox is an alternative to the 14 day quarantine on arrival in a Bangkok ASQ Hotel.  Just dont get on a plane with someone that will test positive - and stay away from kids - and maybe it will be OK.  But really it is for people returning for long stay in Thailand due to family or business - as is the Bangkok ASQ option.

Mate - tell me how the golf goes will you. We have played at many courses in Thailand, but we are yet to have a round or two on Phuket. Have you already picked out and booked the course/s?

 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

3 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Just dont get on a plane with someone that will test positive - and stay away from kids - and maybe it will be OK.  But really it is for people returning for long stay in Thailand due to family or business - as is the

You forgot, Be the PM of Thailand, then your guaranteed your home quarantine and not ASQ for 14 days if your unlucky with the above (for those that are locals to Phuket returning home).

[AussieBob]

1 minute ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

You forgot, Be the PM of Thailand, then your guaranteed your home quarantine and not ASQ for 14 days if your unlucky with the above (for those that are locals to Phuket returning home).

Ooops forgot that - thanks.  And it is a very nice home too that the PM is 'isolated' within - not like that 30m2 hotel room they locked the German lady in. 

[Jehh]

I don’t really apply for a love reading the responses you guy's. Ooops That’s true gender specific, I mean people sorry

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

I lost you at  ......  "surely the point of the sandbox model is to allow a return ..............."

I hear your frustrations but in my opinion you should cancel if you have paid - before the automatic refunds are stopped - if they have not been already. The next 2-4 weeks and into the following month will reveal what happens to the Phuket Sandbox - but the prognosis is as bad as a 100 year old with Covid.

The point of the sandbox was to make money for the owners of all the tourist business in Phuket, and to give employment to the local Thai people as a result of that first priority.  Planning and thinking ahead was done on that basis - counting the tourists and the money . Or as the saying goes - they were busy counting the number of chickens, before the eggs had even hatched - and the roost has a huge hole in the roof.  

I think all of that is true AussieBob. I also think the sandbox was a cynical ploy by the government to “buy time”. I don’t believe that the top medics and most senior politicians truly ever thought this would work. However, by talking about it for two months before and then letting it run for six weeks or so has bought them time with the Thai population. They can now spin the story to say it wasn’t their piss poor idea that’s failed, but those pesky foreigners leaving their hotels to visit their wife or having dementia and wondering around. I can well imagine this was seen primarily as a way to buy some time before the street protests started and at the same time it has a 50-1 chance of working for a few months. The local government in Phuket would have been more focused on getting it to work, but I don’t think central government ever really believed it. A great diversionary tactic in my opinion.  
 

The same is true for the nonsense about opening up in 100 day (probably 95 by now). Utter nonsense and they know it, but it gives hope and buys time. If this new lockdown in Bangkok and surrounding provinces is in place for more than the stated two weeks, then things could start to get very unpleasant for the government. This step by step lockdown and deploying the army on to the streets at checkpoints isn’t about catching lockdown dodgers, it’s more to establish control for when the brown stuff hits the fan and people wake up to the knowledge that this has all been one big con. 

[billybob]

3 hours ago, DWiener said:

Day 6 of my sandbox experience. Pretty much over the relentless rain, and I've got my Thai GF and a car here. Must be pretty boring, miserable, and scary for solo travelers, not being able to go anywhere (whatever is open is very spread out), and with harsh penalties for failing a Covid test. And why ANYONE would think of bringing children here???

So with cases rising inexorably towards the 90/week sandbox threshold and the Indian (lets call it for what it is - an *epic* fail by India) variant now on the island, any bets on how much longer the sandbox lasts??? I'm giving it two weeks. With those of us who made it, stuck here with no way out

Sorry to hear it looking like the sandbox was built on.....sand....who would have thought it ?

[JohninDublin]

6 hours ago, Thaiger said:

OPINION “The ‘Sandbox Guarantee’ could help bolster confidence in a plan that, for now, leaves doubt in the mind of potential travellers.” In Bangkok they are preparing to lock down the city, well, add extra layers of restrictions and a curfew, and stop people getting out and heading back to their provinces. In Phuket they are trying to get people in, via the Sandbox – an option for fully vaccinated travellers to come to Phuket for a 14 day stay before then being allowed to travel around other parts of Thailand. But, to say the least, the Sandbox has gone […]

The post The Sandbox Guarantee – taking the ‘what ifs’ out of travelling to Thailand appeared first on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

Notwithstanding the merits of Thaiger's suggestions, I have to question Emirates and possibly the Thai gov's role in all this.

As far as I can tell, there were just 15 pax on the Emirates flight that brought in the infection on a plane that carried 350+ including about 300 economy seats. Why were they all seated together? OK. So 14 were in a family group and may have wanted that. But the German woman was not part of that group. Why was she not put at perhaps the other end of the cabin to reduce any potential risks. Alternately, if these were the only pax, why not move her, or the family group into business class, but without providing the biz class menu? Then of course, there is the question as to why the aircraft crew were not similarly interned? Isn't social distancing supposed to be a major element in defeating CV? 

I think the Thai authorities need to be telling Airlines, "Where possible, spread those passengers out, and if nobody is using 1st or Biz upgrade some of these to increase social distancing. I can't help feeling that with what we know about social distancing, that the Airline may have been negligent in this case and that the TH gov, should have considered mandating that incoming flights adopt social distancing in the distribution of passengers. Technically, it's not as if the passengers have any choice about where they can sit, and can only change their seats with the consent of the crew.

On a stranger note, I see that in spite of the fact that most flights are nearly empty, some airlines are still charging pax for seat selection. YCMIU.

[KhunG]

59 minutes ago, JohninDubin said:

Notwithstanding the merits of Thaiger's suggestions, I have to question Emirates and possibly the Thai gov's role in all this.

As far as I can tell, there were just 15 pax on the Emirates flight that brought in the infection on a plane that carried 350+ including about 300 economy seats. Why were they all seated together? OK. So 14 were in a family group and may have wanted that. But the German woman was not part of that group. Why was she not put at perhaps the other end of the cabin to reduce any potential risks. Alternately, if these were the only pax, why not move her, or the family group into business class, but without providing the biz class menu? Then of course, there is the question as to why the aircraft crew were not similarly interned? Isn't social distancing supposed to be a major element in defeating CV? 

I think the Thai authorities need to be telling Airlines, "Where possible, spread those passengers out, and if nobody is using 1st or Biz upgrade some of these to increase social distancing. I can't help feeling that with what we know about social distancing, that the Airline may have been negligent in this case and that the TH gov, should have considered mandating that incoming flights adopt social distancing in the distribution of passengers. Technically, it's not as if the passengers have any choice about where they can sit, and can only change their seats with the consent of the crew.

On a stranger note, I see that in spite of the fact that most flights are nearly empty, some airlines are still charging pax for seat selection. YCMIU.

I believe the German woman said the flight was 1/3 full and she had a full row to herself on the first leg then more people boarded, so it wasn't just 15 on the flight.  That was the number they determined to be close contacts and wanted to quarantine.

 

[DeputyDawg]

I'm sure the TAT will issue a statement soon saying they are going form a committee to discuss Sandbox ambiguities... Thai officialdom love their committees, unfortunately they never resolve anything.. 

[JohninDublin]

43 minutes ago, KhunG said:

I believe the German woman said the flight was 1/3 full and she had a full row to herself on the first leg then more people boarded, so it wasn't just 15 on the flight.  That was the number they determined to be close contacts and wanted to quarantine.

Thanks. I haven't seen that and am grateful for your input.

[Jwd]

Complete agree -- there should be far fewer "What if's?".   Travel regulations should be as SAFE as possible but also as SIMPLE as possible.

Best wishes to Thailand in its efforts to fight the pandemic.

[PapayaBokBok]

Wishful thinking--The Article should be read thru rose colored glasses..but thats just MY opinion...

[AussieBob]

14 hours ago, Soidog said:

I think all of that is true AussieBob. I also think the sandbox was a cynical ploy by the government to “buy time”. I don’t believe that the top medics and most senior politicians truly ever thought this would work. However, by talking about it for two months before and then letting it run for six weeks or so has bought them time with the Thai population. They can now spin the story to say it wasn’t their piss poor idea that’s failed, but those pesky foreigners leaving their hotels to visit their wife or having dementia and wondering around. I can well imagine this was seen primarily as a way to buy some time before the street protests started and at the same time it has a 50-1 chance of working for a few months. The local government in Phuket would have been more focused on getting it to work, but I don’t think central government ever really believed it. A great diversionary tactic in my opinion.  
 

The same is true for the nonsense about opening up in 100 day (probably 95 by now). Utter nonsense and they know it, but it gives hope and buys time. If this new lockdown in Bangkok and surrounding provinces is in place for more than the stated two weeks, then things could start to get very unpleasant for the government. This step by step lockdown and deploying the army on to the streets at checkpoints isn’t about catching lockdown dodgers, it’s more to establish control for when the brown stuff hits the fan and people wake up to the knowledge that this has all been one big con. 

Yeh mate - the Junta has learned from the CCP - deflect and delay and it will eventually go away.

When it comes to conspiracies versus pharkkups - I am a strong leaner towards it being a pharkkup. 

'They' are actually not that smart - but they are very opportunistic. 

[JamesE]

I don't think there even needs to be a guarantee. Just publish the rules, all of them. Make COE applicants acknowledge the rules as part of the application process. Communicate. (And no, I don't think that will happen.)

What Thailand said was "If you're vaccinated, you're free to come." But then they set a policy that was the antithesis of that statement. The Sandbox requires the same number of tests as ASQ. It requires the same length of time where you're not free. But ASQ has rules, travelers know what to expect. Sandboxers don't.

Additionally, hidden rules can be applied arbitrarily, like the people forced into ASQ from a near encounter with somebody having a positive test. This means that the Thai authorities really don't trust the vaccines and that nails down one end of the binary go/no-go choice we travelers make.

Thailand, if you trust the vaccines, then walk that talk. Keep visitors on the island(s) for the two-weeks to handle any just in case situations. No tests, no restrictions, because you trust the vaccines. If you don't trust the vaccines, then play that straight too. Make Phuket and Samui into ASQ hubs. Same rules everywhere. But this intermediate path you're trying to weave will turn out much worse for Tourism Thailand's long-term success. Too many tourists with too many social media accounts and too many YouTube channels will poison the well for years to come.

When you finally do sound the all clear, no one will believe you.

[JerryGee]

20 hours ago, GES said:

I didn't think i would be saying this but really, the Sandbox through no fault of its own rules and regulations looks as if it will fail. Really i don't understand how you can on one hand close schools , ( our daughters and many others education on hold ) whilst on the other you allow infected children into the country with no controls.

Surely for everyones safety the Sandbox must be suspended tomorrow urgently. secure Phuket again and look at a restart for September

Totally agree, they should shut it down for everyone's safety, locals and foreigners alike, Why were they not upfront about what would happen if someone tests positive on your flight?, this would have warded off any potential tourists, hardened expats would still take the risk and come because this is where they live, with the numbers now reaching extraordinary levels, should they not be thinking about protecting their own safety as well as naive Tourists who are not up to date with the potential threat.

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, JamesE said:

I don't think there even needs to be a guarantee. Just publish the rules, all of them. Make COE applicants acknowledge the rules as part of the application process. Communicate. (And no, I don't think that will happen.)

What Thailand said was "If you're vaccinated, you're free to come." But then they set a policy that was the antithesis of that statement. The Sandbox requires the same number of tests as ASQ. It requires the same length of time where you're not free. But ASQ has rules, travelers know what to expect. Sandboxers don't.

Additionally, hidden rules can be applied arbitrarily, like the people forced into ASQ from a near encounter with somebody having a positive test. This means that the Thai authorities really don't trust the vaccines and that nails down one end of the binary go/no-go choice we travelers make.

Thailand, if you trust the vaccines, then walk that talk. Keep visitors on the island(s) for the two-weeks to handle any just in case situations. No tests, no restrictions, because you trust the vaccines. If you don't trust the vaccines, then play that straight too. Make Phuket and Samui into ASQ hubs. Same rules everywhere. But this intermediate path you're trying to weave will turn out much worse for Tourism Thailand's long-term success. Too many tourists with too many social media accounts and too many YouTube channels will poison the well for years to come.

When you finally do sound the all clear, no one will believe you.

They are like the boy who cried 'wolf' - but in reverse and backwards - Thaistyle. 

[AussieBob]

5 minutes ago, JerryGee said:

Totally agree, they should shut it down for everyone's safety, locals and foreigners alike, Why were they not upfront about what would happen if someone tests positive on your flight?, this would have warded off any potential tourists, hardened expats would still take the risk and come because this is where they live, with the numbers now reaching extraordinary levels, should they not be thinking about protecting their own safety as well as naive Tourists who are not up to date with the potential threat.

It is, and only ever will be, an alternative to the 14 day quarantine in a hotel in Bangkok.

In Thailand you always have to read between and behind the lines - and then believe nothing you read.

 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

You could use the old sailors quote …… The plans of Phuket Sandbox are written in the sand at low tide. 

[SickBuffalo]

For anyone who needs to get back into Thailand, the most sensible thing would be to sit tight and see how things develop this month.

The situation is changing rapidly, currently in a negative direction, but I believe we are going to see Thailand flooded with Pfizer later this summer, from massive new manufacturing capacity in South Korea.

The sandbox was only ever intended to be a midway stage, to reassure the Thai public, with the goal being to drop ALL the restrictions and open up fully to foreigners vaccinated with one of the 3 effective Western vaccines. With Delta now looming, that plan will obviously be shelved, but will be viable again once the big new Pfizer vaccination campaign is underway in August or September.

I reckon that, this time, they will skip the sandbox and go straight to a full reopening (vaccinated only) the following month, September or October. The aim will be to rescue this year's high season. Few will come if any testing or any form of quarantine are required.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by SickBuffalo

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, SickBuffalo said:

For anyone who needs to get back into Thailand, the most sensible thing would be to sit tight and see how things develop this month.

The situation is changing rapidly, currently in a negative direction, but I believe we are going to see Thailand flooded with Pfizer later this summer, from massive new manufacturing capacity in South Korea.

The sandbox was only ever intended to be a midway stage, to reassure the Thai public, with the goal being to drop ALL the restrictions and open up fully to foreigners vaccinated with one of the 3 effective Western vaccines. With Delta now looming, that plan will obviously be shelved, but will be viable again once the big new Pfizer vaccination campaign is underway in August or September.

I reckon that, this time, they will skip the sandbox and go straight to a full reopening (vaccinated only) the following month, September or October. The aim will be to rescue this year's high season. Few will come if any testing or any form of quarantine are required.
 

Now that is an optimist !!   The PM General said October (120 days) and so they will obey? Perhaps you are right, but I very much doubt it.  They will probably work hard to save the sandbox (face) and continue with the Bangkok ASQ option.  But open up completely? I doubt that very much until infections and deaths are under control.  If the Sth Korea doses do arrive, it will take many months until they are administered - therefore early 2022 at the best. But if they still require PCR tests on arrival, and lock up anyone sitting on the plane near a positive tester, and also demand PCR tests 5 and 13 days later, and any positive test means ASQ for 14 days, then real tourists who have functioning common sense will not be arriving.  Only the truly desperate and/or naive, and those with business and/or family reasons will enter Thailand under those conditions. 

[SickBuffalo]

2 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Now that is an optimist !!   The PM General said October (120 days) and so they will obey?

I am not betting on that extraordinarily useless old soldier, and I always thought he was lying about that, trying to get the industry to demand an earlier reopening, following a successful sandbox, so that any blame would not be on him

I am betting on Pfizer continuing to ramp up production of their most successful product ever. This is their moment, they are in the spotlight. They are transforming themselves into legends by exceeding all projections.

Sadly, Prayut will get much of the credit, but the reality is that this will have nothing to do with his car crash administration, and everything to do with a boardroom map in NYC.

One month into the first big shipments landing on Thai soil, they will rush to reopen tourism for the fully vaccinated.

[Stonker]

8 hours ago, AussieBob said:

It is, and only ever will be, an alternative to the 14 day quarantine in a hotel in Bangkok.

In Thailand you always have to read between and behind the lines - and then believe nothing you read.

Exactly.

 

Its a gamble.

 

If the gamble pays off, as it has for 99%, you get into Thailand on the cheap and have a far more pleasant time for a fortnight than you would opting for ASQ.

 

If it doesn't, as it hasn't for 1%, it could cost you a bit more than ASQ and could take a few days more.

 

If I wanted to come here badly enough*  then I'd probably take the gamble of going for Phuket, if the option was there.

 

*: fortunately as I'm already here that's not a choice I have to make, as I'm here and there's nowhere else I'd rather be and no-one else I'd rather be with despite Covid, coups, or anything else.

[Stonker]

6 hours ago, SickBuffalo said:

I am betting on Pfizer continuing to ramp up production of their most successful product ever. This is their moment, they are in the spotlight. They are transforming themselves into legends by exceeding all projections.

The only sensible option would be for other manufacturers to stop trying to compete and to change to producing Pfizer and Moderna under licence as it's easier to produce than traditional vaccines and can be produced in far greater quantity; unfortunately that's never going to happen.