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Covid UPDATE Sunday: 9,539 new cases, news briefs


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Today the public health department reported 9,539 new Covid infections & 86 coronavirus-related deaths. 103 of today’s cases were reported from the Thai prison system. Today’s numbers indicate a flattening of new infections but still much higher than the week before. Provincial totals published just after lunch time. • The ministries of Public Health and Transport have prepared a 5,000-bed field hospital at Suvarnabhumi Airport in the new Satellite 1 building, a new terminal that hadn’t come into operation yet. Patients with moderate and mild conditions will be treated on the 3rd and 4th floors of the building, while medical […]

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37 minutes ago, Thaiger said:

The BMA will start to implement “home and community isolation” for asymptomatic Covid patients and people displaying mild symptoms. The first community isolation centre will be the Sri Sudaram Temple.

Home isolation is being implemented by 69 health service centres under the BMA, as well as 201 community health clinics affiliated with the National Health Security Office.

 

Irrespective of where in the country 'home isolation' may be operated, it seems to me to be doomed to failure overall.
Given most locals lack of following any instructions rigidly, I can see someone in home isolation perhaps nipping out to the shop for 'two minutes', or friends popping in unannounced, and the 'quarantinee' feeling too greng-jai to refuse them admittance.

This is not being written as 'anti-Thai', but from a genuine concern about getting Covid under control.

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50 minutes ago, Mike-Hunt said:

Irrespective of where in the country 'home isolation' may be operated, it seems to me to be doomed to failure overall.
Given most locals lack of following any instructions rigidly, I can see someone in home isolation perhaps nipping out to the shop for 'two minutes', or friends popping in unannounced, and the 'quarantinee' feeling too greng-jai to refuse them admittance.

This is not being written as 'anti-Thai', but from a genuine concern about getting Covid under control.

Mate - I agree.  It is clear to me that they are almost 'full' in the hospitels and field-hospitals, so they are now resorting to 'home' quarantine. They imposed the automatic hospitel quarantine because they fully understood that many Thais will not obey the rules and isolate themselves at home and stay from others. I too am also concerned at how bad things will get unless they get it under control quickly - and it is probably too little too late now anyway - I hope not though.  

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2 hours ago, Mike-Hunt said:

Irrespective of where in the country 'home isolation' may be operated, it seems to me to be doomed to failure overall.
Given most locals lack of following any instructions rigidly, I can see someone in home isolation perhaps nipping out to the shop for 'two minutes', or friends popping in unannounced, and the 'quarantinee' feeling too greng-jai to refuse them admittance.

This is not being written as 'anti-Thai', but from a genuine concern about getting Covid under control.

Yeah, in this case it isn't about Thai bashing but from pure perspective of Alice looking through the looking glass. In some ways besides the subject of CV-19, this is what makes Thais and Thailand so fun in some ways. Example: Like an alcohol restricted day, so no problem, come on in but you must drink it out of a micky mouse coffee mug. This is just one of the good fun examples amongst many, but there is always the flip side on that where you have to go Whoa, I can't believe that they he/she/they just did that.

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1 hour ago, Rebel said:

The curve is only flattening because the authorities tests less in the weekend.  Happens every week

Yeah and maybe if the abacus being used is too on spot, they go to using their toes and fingers and when reaching the special thumbs and big toes they subtract 3 off the total count.

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Nurse dead from covid having received 2 shots Sinovac

The government needs to give some figures on those health workers that are falling victim to covid, seriously ill, or death despite being fully vaccinated, a very sad case here of a healthy nurse dying from covid despite having both doses of the Chinese fluid.

"Every death to #COVID19 is tragic. Even more so when it is a healthy 30 year old nurse who worked on a Covid ward. As a medical worker, she had received two doses of Sinovac. Now there is a call for these frontline workers to get a booster shot of a different vaccine"

https://twitter.com/RichardBarrow/status/1414007067761790977

 

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Home and community isolation...at a temple????
  

Pardon my ignorance of this methodology, but doesn't isolation mean staying the f*** at HOME?  Staying far away from others who could inhale your skanky virus breath?

I've already HAD Covid, back in January. It was on my groceries as I hadn't left the house. Oops, but whatever. I sure as hell didn't leave my home to go 'isolate' in a place packed with other people, sick or otherwise.  I stayed inside, rested, relaxed, and waited it out.

Could someone explain to me how traveling to a temple -- or even a field hospital -- is going to prevent my sharing the virus with others?  Inquiring minds want to know.

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23 hours ago, prolificwriter said:

Home and community isolation...at a temple????

Plenty of temples are on large plots of land, normally surrounded by a wall and with limited access through gates that can be closed to limit access.

 

Wat Sri Sudharam is well known in Bangkok because of Sunthorn Phu, the author, who went to school there and it's ideal as although there's limited road access the main access is by boat!  The quarantine area is also in the school which is separated from and only accessible through the temple, so there's a double barrier.

 

You may well be lucky as you were able to stay inside, relaxed, rested, etc, without inflicting your "skanky virus breath" on anyone but comparatively few Thais have that privilege.

 

In the countryside many live in multi-generational homes where grandparents are often looking after their children's children, and there's usually one toilet per household - often outside.  In the towns, and particularly the big cities, rooms are shared and isolation is simply impossible.

 

As an example, a village just up the hill from me has just had 4 cases of Covid.  One woman from the village who was working in Bangkok caught Covid there and had nowhere in Bangkok where she could isolate as she shared a room and she couldn't get a bed in a field hospital there, so she came back to the village 600 kms away as she had nowhere else to go and she then generously gave the virus to three of her family in the house.  She got no sympathy as she should have told the PooYaiBan (the village headman) who could have arranged somewhere in a hut out in the fields or in the local hospital's quarantine center / field hospital which is just being set up in a separate block in the nurses' accommodation, but she simply had nowhere else to go.

 

It all sounds so easy to a westerner who's used to their own room, if not an en-suite bathroom, or their own house or flat, but that's just another world for many Thais even in Bangkok.  You can just phone for your groceries to be delivered, and turn one tap on for hot water and one for cold.  In the next village on they don't even have mains water or drains, and they've only had electricity for thirty years even though they had a school decades before that.

 

That doesn't even necessarily mean they're "poor". A km down the road from me some lottery sellers are living in a rice shed in the field so that they won't pass anything on when they come back from Udon or Khon Kaen every fortnight, and they've got their minibus, pick up, and motorbikes parked in front of the shed instead of going home.

 

It's a different world.

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On 7/11/2021 at 9:18 AM, Mike-Hunt said:

Irrespective of where in the country 'home isolation' may be operated, it seems to me to be doomed to failure overall.
Given most locals lack of following any instructions rigidly, I can see someone in home isolation perhaps nipping out to the shop for 'two minutes', or friends popping in unannounced, and the 'quarantinee' feeling too greng-jai to refuse them admittance.

 

On 7/11/2021 at 10:11 AM, AussieBob said:

Mate - I agree.  It is clear to me that they are almost 'full' in the hospitels and field-hospitals, so they are now resorting to 'home' quarantine. They imposed the automatic hospitel quarantine because they fully understood that many Thais will not obey the rules and isolate themselves at home and stay from others.

Agreed 100%, @Mike-Hunt and @AussieBob, but it's not just about following the rules.

 

Some of my in-laws live and work in Bangkok, and they can't self-isolate as they've got nowhere to self-isolate - it's just impossible.

 

Up here, until you go to the town which is 10 kms away, it would be pretty much impossible for 99% of those here to do so "at home" too - their homes just don't allow for it to happen.

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15 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Plenty of temples are on large plots of land, normally surrounded by a wall and with limited access through gates that can be closed to limit access.

Wat Sri Sudharam is well known in Bangkok because of Sunthorn Phu, the author, who went to school there and it's ideal as although there's limited road access the main access is by boat!  The quarantine area is also in the school which is separated from and only accessible through the temple, so there's a double barrier.

You may well be lucky as you were able to stay inside, relaxed, rested, etc, without inflicting your "skanky virus breath" on anyone but comparatively few Thais have that privilege.

In the countryside many live in multi-generational homes where grandparents are often looking after their children's children, and there's usually one toilet per household - often outside.  In the towns, and particularly the big cities, rooms are shared and isolation is simply impossible.

As an example, a village just up the hill from me has just had 4 cases of Covid.  One woman from the village who was working in Bangkok caught Covid there and had nowhere in Bangkok where she could isolate as she shared a room and she couldn't get a bed in a field hospital there, so she came back to the village 600 kms away as she had nowhere else to go and she then generously gave the virus to three of her family in the house.  She got no sympathy as she should have told the PooYaiBan (the village headman) who could have arranged somewhere in a hut out in the fields or in the local hospital's quarantine center / field hospital which is just being set up in a separate block in the nurses' accommodation, but she simply had nowhere else to go.

It all sounds so easy to a westerner who's used to their own room, if not an en-suite bathroom, or their own house or flat, but that's just another world for many Thais even in Bangkok.  You can just phone for your groceries to be delivered, and turn one tap on for hot water and one for cold.  In the next village on they don't even have mains water or drains, and they've only had electricity for thirty years even though they had a school decades before that.

That doesn't even necessarily mean they're "poor". A km down the road from me some lottery sellers are living in a rice shed in the field so that they won't pass anything on when they come back from Udon or Khon Kaen every fortnight, and they've got their minibus, pick up, and motorbikes parked in front of the shed instead of going home.

It's a different world.

Beautifully and elegantly put thanks for the effort. 

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5 minutes ago, billybob said:

Beautifully and elegantly put thanks for the effort. 

Thanks for the thanks!

 

Unfortunately some of the comments here are made out of ignorance - that's not a criticism of them in any way as it doesn't mean the person making them is "ignorant", but just that there are things they may not be aware of or have even considered, and that's not just farangs.

 

Thais in Bangkok are worried about high speed trains and 5G, but in Mae Hong Son (not my province) over a quarter of the villages don't even have electricity. 

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On 7/11/2021 at 2:12 PM, billybob said:

The government needs to give some figures on those health workers that are falling victim to covid, seriously ill, or death despite being fully vaccinated, a very sad case here of a healthy nurse dying from covid despite having both doses of the Chinese fluid.

For what it's worth, there was a report here not that  long ago about a hospital out in the sticks that had had to close for a few weeks as the staff had caught Covid from a patient and none of the staff had been vaccinated at all.

 

Maybe if so many hotel and bar staff and foreign tourists in Phuket hadn't been vaccinated the hospital wouldn't have had to close.  

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1 minute ago, Stonker said:

For what it's worth, there was a report here not that  long ago about a hospital out in the sticks that had had to close for a few weeks as the staff had caught Covid from a patient and none of the staff had been vaccinated at all.

Maybe if so many hotel and bar staff and foreign tourists in Phuket hadn't been vaccinated the hospital wouldn't have had to close.  

Too true my 24 year old niece dancer at Phuket Fantasea has been double jabbed whereas my two eldest over 70 year old sister-in-laws in Bangkok still haven't had one and have been knocked back for a third time today. The vaccination procurement and deployment strategy are a tragic joke and Thailand and the Thai people (and expats)  will pay a heavy price for the criminal incompetence of the so-called 'leadership'. 

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On 7/11/2021 at 8:29 AM, Thaiger said:

 Patients with moderate and mild conditions will be treated on the 3rd and 4th floors of the building, while medical […]

 

I'm struggling to understand the goal of isolating people who test positive for an arbitrary two weeks, after which time they are released if the have mild to moderate symptoms. Are they no longer infectious?

From the people I speak to who have been forcibly isolated, they do not get a covid test when they are released, so, if prevention of transmission is the goal, of the what is the actual point of not testing again?

If prevention of transmission is the goal, then surely antigen tests are the correct protocol to determine if a patient should be released, yet this is not done, as it take weeks, if not months for antigen's to develop

When asked why there is no covid test on release from isolation, the doctor said.."You will test positive, but your covid is now dead. Do not get another test for a few months".

I really feel that we have suspended all critical thinking when it comes to managing this problem. We have an epidemic of cases, not of actual symptoms, and the population is panicking into getting tested, when they have no plan what they will do if positive.

Are we honestly proposing to enforce isolation, for asymptomatic or mild symptoms, when the number of people qualifying for this description far outnumber those with serious symptoms.

None of this makes any sense

 

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20 minutes ago, AdamX said:

I'm struggling to understand the goal of isolating people who test positive for an arbitrary two weeks, after which time they are released if the have mild to moderate symptoms. Are they no longer infectious?

From the people I speak to who have been forcibly isolated, they do not get a covid test when they are released, so, if prevention of transmission is the goal, of the what is the actual point of not testing again?

If prevention of transmission is the goal, then surely antigen tests are the correct protocol to determine if a patient should be released, yet this is not done, as it take weeks, if not months for antigen's to develop

When asked why there is no covid test on release from isolation, the doctor said.."You will test positive, but your covid is now dead. Do not get another test for a few months".

I really feel that we have suspended all critical thinking when it comes to managing this problem. We have an epidemic of cases, not of actual symptoms, and the population is panicking into getting tested, when they have no plan what they will do if positive.

Are we honestly proposing to enforce isolation, for asymptomatic or mild symptoms, when the number of people qualifying for this description far outnumber those with serious symptoms.

None of this makes any sense

I think you describe perfectly the confusion that exits around the planet on such matters. I can only say what takes place in the U.K., which hardly qualifies as the best practice. The things to remember when deciding on what is best, is that asymptomatic people can of course still spread the virus. Therefore, anyone who tests positive needs to isolate for a period of time. It’s also worth noting that once again this is a percentage game. Im sure a small percentage of people test clear after day 5, while a small percentage will test positive even after 18 days following infection. A few people I know who have tested positive with a rapid flow test and then confirmed with a PCR test, we’re told to isolate for 10 days (10 days seemingly a compromise between too little and too long to capture most people still being infectious?). During that time they were advised to do a rapid flow test every couple of days and if they developed severe symptoms then obviously seek medical advice. In all cases, their rapid flow test showed positive until they got to around day 6-8 after which it returned negative. They remained in isolation for the full 10 days and then got on with their life. Was that the optimum or safest approach? Hard to say, though it did keep them away from people for a reasonable period of time and the flow tests did show negative a few days prior to release from isolation. 

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54 minutes ago, Soidog said:

They remained in isolation for the full 10 days and then got on with their life. Was that the optimum or safest approach? Hard to say, though it did keep them away from people for a reasonable period of time and the flow tests did show negative a few days prior to release from isolation. 

There should be mandatory PCR testing following the isolation, and the data should be as openly published as the daily new cases.

I believe publishing the number of people who still test positive even following exiting isolation would highlight the broken thinking that surrounds PCR testing

 

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8 minutes ago, AdamX said:

There should be mandatory PCR testing following the isolation, and the data should be as openly published as the daily new cases.

I believe publishing the number of people who still test positive even following exiting isolation would highlight the broken thinking that surrounds PCR testing

I’m sure your suggestion would do not harm, I guess the problem would be the sheer quantity of PCR tests required. I’m think in the U.K. it would run in to a few million. I’m not sure of the testing capacity and if it could be accommodated ? 

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7 hours ago, Stonker said:

As an example, a village just up the hill from me has just had 4 cases of Covid.  One woman from the village who was working in Bangkok caught Covid there and had nowhere in Bangkok where she could isolate as she shared a room and she couldn't get a bed in a field hospital there, so she came back to the village 600 kms away as she had nowhere else to go and she then generously gave the virus to three of her family in the house.  She got no sympathy as she should have told the PooYaiBan (the village headman) who could have arranged somewhere in a hut out in the fields or in the local hospital's quarantine center / field hospital which is just being set up in a separate block in the nurses' accommodation, but she simply had nowhere else to go.

Is the covid monitoring system running well enough for the Poo Yai Ban to be self-organised or have been told how to react to the situation?
From the reports I've read there are these community health workers supposed to be checking on people suspected of being infected.
When the compulsory face mask wearing 'outside your home' came into force a couple of months ago, I saw people in villages without a mask, and some with no idea of one being required.

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6 hours ago, Mike-Hunt said:

Is the covid monitoring system running well enough for the Poo Yai Ban to be self-organised or have been told how to react to the situation?
From the reports I've read there are these community health workers supposed to be checking on people suspected of being infected.
When the compulsory face mask wearing 'outside your home' came into force a couple of months ago, I saw people in villages without a mask, and some with no idea of one being required.

In this case, and many similar ones, it couldn't be simpler as all the PYB has to do to be "self-organised or have been told how to react to the situation" is to arrange for her to stay in one of the many huts in the rice / sugar cane fields for a fortnight and for her family to drop off food and water.

 

She was positive for Covid, but because there aren't enough beds in the field hospital so she was told to "self-quarantine at home".  No thought of "how" or "where". Her "home"is either a shared room in Bangkok or the extended family, multi-generational home in Isan.   It's impossible.

 

It's understandable that many farangs may not realise that, but unforgivable that Thais don't  -  it's two different countries.

 

Many of the lottery sellers, from Khon Kaen and Udon to Bangkok and Pattaya, are from Isan and they go to and fro every fortnight (10 days selling, 5 days home in Isan).  Some consider others and self-isolate, while others don't, so some of the PYB's have just told them to either stay in the fields or stay away  -  but it shouldn't be up to the PYB's.

 

That's the government's job, for crying out loud. Instead all they're interested in is Bangkok and Phuket!

 

 

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13 hours ago, AdamX said:

I'm struggling to understand the goal of isolating people who test positive for an arbitrary two weeks, after which time they are released if the have mild to moderate symptoms. Are they no longer infectious?

Generally speaking, apparently 'no'.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Stonker said:

In this case, and many similar ones, it couldn't be simpler as all the PYB has to do to be "self-organised or have been told how to react to the situation" is to arrange for her to stay in one of the many huts in the rice / sugar cane fields for a fortnight and for her family to drop off food and water.

She was positive for Covid, but because there aren't enough beds in the field hospital so she was told to "self-quarantine at home".  No thought of "how" or "where". Her "home"is either a shared room in Bangkok or the extended family, multi-generational home in Isan.   It's impossible.

It's understandable that many farangs may not realise that, but unforgivable that Thais don't  -  it's two different countries.

Many of the lottery sellers, from Khon Kaen and Udon to Bangkok and Pattaya, are from Isan and they go to and fro every fortnight (10 days selling, 5 days home in Isan).  Some consider others and self-isolate, while others don't, so some of the PYB's have just told them to either stay in the fields or stay away  -  but it shouldn't be up to the PYB's.

That's the government's job, for crying out loud. Instead all they're interested in is Bangkok and Phuket!

I'm interested when you mention about the huts in the fields. I've seen a few, but not really that many.
The huts must belong to the farmers for their occasional use.
It makes me wonder if the hut owners are happy with the arrangement - depending on whether it's (extended) family or not? Do they even get a say in the matter, or will the PYB just commandeer them?

The few PYB I've met have varied from knowing what they're doing, to just doing the minimum they can as a paid job. It's better there are PYB elections now, as it hopefully encourages them to do their job properly and be more answerable to the villagers.

Like you say it should be down to the government to take the lead, but to me they seem more interested in taking the p!ss, by finding ways to screw money out of the system to make it work for them.

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