News Forum - US military shoots down Chinese spy balloon

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Well I don't know more about the US or Canadian military but I have traveled extensively in Canada.  The vast majority of the country is uninhabited.  I have also been to Montana where like most states the population centers are in the cities.  Montana would roughly be 70% the geographic size of France.  Yet it has only 1.1 million people.  The majority of Montana is desolate with its remoteness, weather, and rugged terrain making it not suitable for development.  

This notion that they did not want the balloon to come down and hurt someone on the ground is laughable.  Instead lit was preferable to let it continue its spy mission for 8 days and then shoot it down over the Atlantic.  The chances of the balloon hitting anything in Montana are only slightly greater than the balloon striking some boat in the Atlantic.  If this was a missle, or airplane incursion would you equally favor them letting those continue unimpeded or would the worry about falling missle or aircraft parts not be the same as those from a balloon. 

Sorry but that's an idiotic comparison 

 

As I said, I will be take the military expertise over all the right wingers

[Manu]

On 2/5/2023 at 11:06 AM, Grumpish said:

Lying (and self-enrichment) is a core element of every politicians job description.

Nah, it does not apply to the US government, when their "lips move", it is always the truth.

[Soidog]

7 hours ago, longwood50 said:

I have very mixed emotions about Ukraine.  While I emphasize with the country being invaded, I am not sure why America always has to have a dog in every fight.  The USA went down similar paths in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan only to expend billions of dollars, and in the other instances thousands of lives. 

Now in terms of tensions I disagree.  Placating an adversary by allowing them to breach your borders is not a good strategy for building peace through strength.  Such lack of action only emboldens them to try future and potentially more agressive incursions. 

What possibly is the purpose of NORAD if it is not to give early warning to unidentified incoming aircraft, and preventing their incursion over US territory.   One thing is for sure, irrepective of any political fallout, you don't let the balloon go unimpeded for 8 days allowing it to finish its mission and then destroy it.  Do you think the Chinese would still be happy that their equipment was still destroyed because it was 8 days later.  Seems like the fact they "may" be irritated was just kicking the can down the road 8 days. 

I totally agree they should have exposed this incident far sooner and made it clear to the Chinese we’ve spotted it and intercepted it. They should then have asked what it’s purpose was with a clear instruction that if they could not prove it was a civilian aircraft within a reasonable time period, then it would be shot down. I agree showing weakness to people like Xi is not the way. That’s why we are in the mess we are with Putin. The West did nothing about Georgia, Chechnya and by far the biggest issue of Crimea.

I do understand why some Americans ask the these questions. Some British are asking the same. But this is about sending out the right signals as you indicate with the balloon incident. The US is the leader and hence defender of the free world. A status it should be rightly proud of. You can’t stop and start being a leader when it suits, or you’re not a leader. This is a “war” all of the free world is in. If you give a little, they will take more. 

[Viggen8408]

On 2/5/2023 at 10:26 AM, longwood50 said:

So basically they let the balloon continue its journey from Montana to the Atlantic Coast before shooting it down.  I guess that is why they say the term Military Intelligence is an oxymoron. 

It was evidently first detected over the Aleutian Islands and before entering US airspace in Alaska. Well out of range for Chinese weather concerns. Also, if it WAS a simple weather balloon, why wouldn't their friendly meteorologists have given warning it was off course?

As with everything CCP it can't be trusted because truth gets in the way of subterfuge.

[longwood50]

7 hours ago, Marc26 said:

As I said, I will be take the military expertise over all the right wingers

Well as I said, I have no problem understanding why you are a Biden supporter.  Only a liberal could at one moment laud the president for taking steps unknown that led to the discovery of the spy balloon and then continue to laud him for doing nothing until the spy mission was totally complete.

The military was awaiting orders from Biden on what to do.  He twiddled his fingers for 8 days. The military reports to Biden.   

Oh PS was this another one of those enhancements that Biden made to strengthen the vigilance of security on the USA borders. 

https://polishnews.co.uk/biden-admin-removing-most-surveillance-balloons-at-southern-border-due-to-cost-sources/

[longwood50]

5 minutes ago, Viggen8408 said:

t was evidently first detected over the Aleutian Islands and before entering US airspace in Alaska. Well out of range for Chinese weather concerns. Also, if it WAS a simple weather balloon, why wouldn't their friendly meteorologists have given warning it was off course?

As with everything CCP it can't be trusted because truth gets in the way of subterfuge.

Well according to some on this forum high praise should go to Biden because through some undisclosed enhanced vigilance the USA was able to detect these spy balloons early over the Aleutian islands.  Those same people continue to give high marks for the president to not shoot but to keep his cool for 8 days until the spy balloon had completely covered thousands of miles of territory both in the USA and Canada. 

 

[longwood50]

7 hours ago, Marc26 said:

As I said, I will be take the military expertise over all the right wingers

Additionally what is really happening here is that Biden is trying to dump the blame on the military and make them the scape goats for his lack of action. And since the military reports to him they are like the boss who blames mistakes on one of his subordinates, knowing they cant refute him. 

 As said, the military reports to him.  It is a ruse to say, oh I ordered it but the Pentagon over ruled me.  Bull Pucky. 

[longwood50]

7 hours ago, Marc26 said:

As I said, I will be take the military expertise over all the right wingers

Additionally what is really happening here is that Biden is trying to dump the blame on the military and make them the scape goats for his lack of action.  As said, the military reports to him.  It is a ruse to say, oh I ordered it but the Pentagon over ruled me.  Bull Pucky. 

[Viggen840]

1 hour ago, longwood50 said:

Additionally what is really happening here is that Biden is trying to dump the blame on the military and make them the scape goats for his lack of action.  As said, the military reports to him.  It is a ruse to say, oh I ordered it but the Pentagon over ruled me.  Bull Pucky. 

You are obviously NOT an Obidum supporter. I like what you have written and the sensible argument you have put forth about this procrastinating geriatric doing nothing as Commander in Chief. Thank you.

[Vigo]

On 2/8/2023 at 11:31 AM, Viggen840 said:

Alaska or Canada would have been ideal to take it down and recover exactly what it was used for before being damaged by salt water immersion. One has to wonder at the conversations between ultra-socialist Trudeau and anti-American Obidum as to why it was permitted to incurs further into the North American zone. Obviously, NSA would have been monitoring its 'weather broadcasts' as it traversed the continent.

Does the CCP lie? Do their lips move?

Such  nonsense. You are ignoring past experience with foreign debris. A large swath of Canada's north is  permanently contaminated with radioactive debris. The person who says, it is ok to drop unknown debris into a low populated state or province is a hypocrite. They would be the forst to complain about it. Because an area has low population does not mean it should be put at risk. The trajectory the balloon flew was over some of the most right wing voting blocs of Caanda and the USA. I am quite certain that we would have been treated to accusations of left wing plots had it been brought down there.

The fact is that the balloon path was observed and the data transmissions  closely watched. Then the balloon was brought down in an area where it was easiest to collect the equipment.

[Vigo]

On 2/9/2023 at 6:24 AM, longwood50 said:

Additionally what is really happening here is that Biden is trying to dump the blame on the military and make them the scape goats for his lack of action.  As said, the military reports to him.  It is a ruse to say, oh I ordered it but the Pentagon over ruled me.  Bull Pucky. 

More rubbish. The military and various security departments gave their opinions and the executive branch followed the recommendations. Turns out the strategy  was the correct one. The interesting aspect is that when Trump was president, he let the balloons fly over the USA.

[longwood50]

1 hour ago, Vigo said:

More rubbish. The military and various security departments gave their opinions and the executive branch followed the recommendations. Turns out the strategy  was the correct one. The interesting aspect is that when Trump was president, he let the balloons fly over the USA.

Now that is rubbish.  

1. quote exactly what security departments gave 'their opinions" and exactly what was that "opinion"  I don't take the blanket answer reccomendations.  That is hollow.  What was the reccomendation and what was it based on.  If it is nothing more than they said. Don't shoot it down with no explanation than Biden is merely placing the blame on those who report to him, knowing they will take the heat and can't complain. 

2. Why did that strategy turn out to be "correct"  Other than if you are President Xi and you feel it was the correct one since it allowed the spy balloon to complete its mission.  If you are indicating the equipment will be potentially salvaged, that also is bunk.  There is no reason the balloon could not have been shot down with a slow descent into unpopulated areas in Montana making a salvage on dry land much easier than open seas. 

3. It has been well documented that during the Trump presidency that three ballons entered U.S. airspace. 
               a.  They were not identified as balloons until the Biden presidency and were                         characterized as UFO

               b. The incursions of those balloons was for very brief periods of time not 8 days

               c. Trump was never made aware of the existence so how did you expect him to                    respond?  Was he suppose to know something the military did not even know                      existed.


               

 

WASHINGTON – A top military commander said Monday the US had not detected previous incursions by Chinese spy balloons as they took place during the Trump administration – raising troubling questions about the security of US airspace.

“Every day as NORAD commander, it’s my responsibility to detect threats to North America,” Air Force Gen. Glen D. VanHerck of the North American Aerospace Defense Command told reporters. “I will tell you that we did not detect those [previous] threats. And that’s a domain awareness gap that we have to figure out.”

The aircraft spotted during Trump’s tenure were smaller in size and only detected briefly in US airspace. They were first categorized as “unidentified aerial phenomena” by intelligence officials, only to later be identified as balloons. The assessments indicated they came from China, but were not definitive.

 

 

So get the fact straight. 

 

[TedG]

On 2/5/2023 at 12:41 AM, TWS60 said:

Just for laughs, popped over to Fox "News" to see how they're handling this crisis situation.

 

Bless your heart. 

[Viggen840]

13 hours ago, Vigo said:

The fact is that the balloon path was observed and the data transmissions closely watched

Closely watched? Haven't seen that reported previously. You got inside information on that?