News Forum - US military shoots down Chinese spy balloon

[Thaiger]

The US military shot down a suspected Chinese spy balloon over the Atlantic Ocean off the Eastern Seaboard of the United States yesterday according to Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin. President Joe Biden approved the operation, which resulted in a diplomatic fallout between Washington and Beijing. The balloon was first spotted in the sky over Montana …

The story US military shoots down Chinese spy balloon as seen on Thaiger News.

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[longwood50]

33 minutes ago, Thaiger said:

The balloon was first spotted in the sky over Montana …

So basically they let the balloon continue its journey from Montana to the Atlantic Coast before shooting it down.  I guess that is why they say the term Military Intelligence is an oxymoron. 

[Grumpish]

More likely to be a stray weather balloon - I didn't think that balloons were used for spying anymore, with the level of detail that can be obtained from spy satellites these days. The Chinese histrionics after being accused of launching a spy balloon are amusing though.

[Viggen840]

5 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

The Chinese histrionics after being accused of launching a spy balloon are amusing though.

More a saving face exercise. You know how important that is to Asians - especially our unloved Chinese neighbours. I really hope that the Yanks DO recover the instrument package and it DOES contain intelligence-gathering equipment. Once again proving that the CCP lies and can't be trusted... at all.

[kalyan]

I too fly weather baloons, helium baloons, never get caught !

[TWS60]

Just for laughs, popped over to Fox "News" to see how they're handling this crisis situation.

As you might have guessed, Joe Biden has let this situation go on far too long, because he's weak on China.  Fox is reliable, and predictable, like a soi dog chasing a motorbike. 

Scrolled down to the Fox comment section chockablock with the usual misspellings and grammatical snafus even my 10-year old kid has a laugh at. 

First one lays out a conspiracy theory that Joe Biden let this balloon "fly right over military bases" to collect intelligence and did nothing about it, because he's weak on China.   Even worse, Joe Biden tried to cover it all up, because the Chinese (probably) have "something on him, and Hunter Biden".  And then a demand that Republicans now in charge of Congress need to investigate, "get to the bottom of this", and throw Joe Biden in jail.  

Next one declares this is all a hoax.  It's really a US Government balloon, launched by Joe Biden so he could then shoot down an (American) balloon to show he's tough on China. 

Another one liner suggests there a major crisis between Joe Biden and the highest levels of the US Military command structure, because they defied his first/earlier order to shoot the balloon down. 

Last.....  the balloon is real, not a hoax, launched by the Chinese Government to drift over the USA, and I quote, "dropping concentrated virus for the pandemic into the atmosphere".

[Pinetree]

And the idiot Biden praised the F22 pilot for shooting down a slow moving balloon, that couldn't  shoot back, with one missile. Like that was some amazing feat of flying. Do me a favour. 

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Viggen840 said:

More a saving face exercise. You know how important that is to Asians - especially our unloved Chinese neighbours. I really hope that the Yanks DO recover the instrument package and it DOES contain intelligence-gathering equipment. Once again proving that the CCP lies and can't be trusted... at all.

Even if the US do recover the instruments and they are covered in Chinese writing and Chinese military codes, they’ll just say they were planted items by the US. The CCP see lying as just an alternative truth. I’m not even sure there is an equivalent word for lying with them anymore. 

[TWS60]

12 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

And the idiot Biden praised the F22 pilot for shooting down a slow moving balloon, that couldn't  shoot back, with one missile. Like that was some amazing feat of flying. Do me a favour. 

Nobody asserted, or even hinted at, it being an amazing feat of flying.  Nobody, apart from you apparently, would float the idea that a weather balloon drifting slowly at 120-140mph winds aloft, could be armed, and could shoot first, or last, or at all.  You just made that up, then attribute your imaginary nonsense to Biden as if he came up with it, which he didn't (you did).  But he's the Idiot?  OK, mate, whatever you say.   

Here's a wild hypothetical:  Biden says nothing to, or about, the F22 pilot.  Oh dear!

 

[Pinetree]

10 minutes ago, TWS60 said:

Nobody asserted, or even hinted at, it being an amazing feat of flying.  Nobody, apart from you apparently, would float the idea that a weather balloon drifting slowly at 120-140mph winds aloft, could be armed, and could shoot first, or last, or at all.  You just made that up, then attribute your imaginary nonsense to Biden as if he came up with it, which he didn't (you did).  But he's the Idiot?  OK, mate, whatever you say.   

Here's a wild hypothetical:  Biden says nothing to, or about, the F22 pilot.  Oh dear!

What are you talking about?  Biden did say that.  the comment about shooting back was an f-ing joke mate. 

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, Pinetree said:

And the idiot Biden praised the F22 pilot for shooting down a slow moving balloon, that couldn't  shoot back, with one missile. Like that was some amazing feat of flying. Do me a favour. 

Umm...

What is he supposed to do? Not mention them?

That's pretty standard speak from any President 

 

I think you are grasping at straws here...

 

 

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1621968706564722688?t=VUF1jqFczvGZZggub0VLGQ&s=19

[Pinetree]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

Even if the US do recover the instruments and they are covered in Chinese writing and Chinese military codes, they’ll just say they were planted items by the US. The CCP see lying as just an alternative truth. I’m not even sure there is an equivalent word for lying with them anymore. 

True, but you do know when they are lying,  because their mouths are moving. 

[Grumpish]

37 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

True, but you do know when they are lying,  because their mouths are moving. 

Lying (and self-enrichment) is a core element of every politicians job description.

[Vigo]

You folks have very short memories. In 1978, a Russian spy satellite crashed in Canada's far north. It turned out it was nuclear powered and left a toxic debris field over a large part of Canada's far north, destroying natural habitat. It was impossible to clean up and the Russians never paid for the damages. Russians did what the Chinese are doing now; Denied its nature and were not open about its dangers.

15 hours ago, longwood50 said:

So basically they let the balloon continue its journey from Montana to the Atlantic Coast before shooting it down.  I guess that is why they say the term Military Intelligence is an oxymoron. 

Would you rather they  take it down over a populated area, not knowing what the nature of the  cargo or power plant? I expect you would be first in line to criticize if the large debris field took out a town. Dropping a large payload from that distance isn't easy to predict the exact landing spot, and based upon the irrational  nd conspiracy driven american mentality, attempting to evacuate people from the expected drop zone would have made matters worse.

US needs to recover the payload and reveal to the world the nefarious intent of the Chinese.

 

 

 

 

 

[longwood50]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:41 AM, Vigo said:

Would you rather they  take it down over a populated area, not knowing what the nature of the  cargo or power plant?

The population of Montana is 1.1 million and the vast majority of that live in the metropolitan areas.  The overwhelming majority of Montana and adjacent South Dakota is wilderness.  Now if it was a missle coming into the USA would you say, oh let it continue to fly because the debris from destroying it might cause damage.  How ridiculous.  The balloon was first spotted over the Aleutian Islands.  It could have been destroyed over the Pacific Ocean, also it traveled through Alaska, the state with the least number of people per square kilometer.  It then traveled South through Canada, much of it uninhabited territory.  So sorry, but your premis of taking it down over a populated area is just bunk. 

 

[Soidog]

4 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

The population of Montana is 1.1 million and the vast majority of that live in the metropolitan areas.  The overwhelming majority of Montana and adjacent South Dakota is wilderness.  Now if it was a missle coming into the USA would you say, oh let it continue to fly because the debris from destroying it might cause damage.  How ridiculous.  The balloon was first spotted over the Aleutian Islands.  It could have been destroyed over the Pacific Ocean, also it traveled through Alaska, the state with the least number of people per square kilometer.  It then traveled South through Canada, much of it uninhabited territory.  So sorry, but your premis of taking it down over a populated area is just bunk. 

I agree it should have been taken down sooner. But the analogy with taking down a missile is equally flawed. A ballon isn’t a threat to life. An incoming missile is. The choice with bringing down the ballon is on the one hand no risk to life. On the other, possible radioactive components being spread across a wide area rendering people and agriculture at risk. With an incoming missile it’s a choice of risk of contamination or potentially hundreds if not thousands killed depending on the intended target. 

[Marc26]

17 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

The population of Montana is 1.1 million and the vast majority of that live in the metropolitan areas.  The overwhelming majority of Montana and adjacent South Dakota is wilderness.  Now if it was a missle coming into the USA would you say, oh let it continue to fly because the debris from destroying it might cause damage.  How ridiculous.  The balloon was first spotted over the Aleutian Islands.  It could have been destroyed over the Pacific Ocean, also it traveled through Alaska, the state with the least number of people per square kilometer.  It then traveled South through Canada, much of it uninhabited territory.  So sorry, but your premis of taking it down over a populated area is just bunk. 

Yes because you and all the right wingers know more than the US and Canadian military.......

 

 

[Viggen840]

1 hour ago, longwood50 said:

The population of Montana is 1.1 million and the vast majority of that live in the metropolitan areas.  The overwhelming majority of Montana and adjacent South Dakota is wilderness.  Now if it was a missle coming into the USA would you say, oh let it continue to fly because the debris from destroying it might cause damage.  How ridiculous.  The balloon was first spotted over the Aleutian Islands.  It could have been destroyed over the Pacific Ocean, also it traveled through Alaska, the state with the least number of people per square kilometer.  It then traveled South through Canada, much of it uninhabited territory.  So sorry, but your premis of taking it down over a populated area is just bunk. 

Alaska or Canada would have been ideal to take it down and recover exactly what it was used for before being damaged by salt water immersion. One has to wonder at the conversations between ultra-socialist Trudeau and anti-American Obidum as to why it was permitted to incurs further into the North American zone. Obviously, NSA would have been monitoring its 'weather broadcasts' as it traversed the continent.

Does the CCP lie? Do their lips move?

[Viggen840]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

Yes because you and all the right wingers know more than the US and Canadian military.......

Enough to know that a 'weather balloon' does not drift in a programmed course apart from where it is blown by high altitude winds, and thousands of miles off where it was planned for...

 

[longwood50]

6 hours ago, Viggen840 said:

Alaska or Canada would have been ideal to take it down and recover exactly what it was used for before being damaged by salt water immersion. One has to wonder at the conversations between ultra-socialist Trudeau and anti-American Obidum as to why it was permitted to incurs further into the North American zone. Obviously, NSA would have been monitoring its 'weather broadcasts' as it traversed the continent.

One way or another the primary objective should have been to stop whatever intelligence gathering operation the balloon was on not recover the electronics.  I would think that if they wanted to recover the electronics as part of their mission shooting it with bullets from a 50 caliber machine gun on a fighter aircraft would have caused the balloon to slowly deflate and land at least somewhat soft.  I am not sure but at lower altitudes as the balloon was losing air from the bullets if helicopters could have grappled it.  They are powerful enough to lift tanks.  Even if that was not true and the electronics were destroyed during the crash, was letting it go for 8 days unimpeded really preferable to losing whatever could be retrieved.  Also  this notion that somehow blasting it into the Atlantic saved anything is laughable.  They shot the balloon with a missle which would have caused the balloon to  explode possibly damaging or destroying whatever electronics it had on board.  Finally, so it landed in the Atlantic.  You mean to tell me that somehow it didn't sink.  If they could accurately determine and immediately salvage it in the Atlantic there is no reason they could not do exactly the same thing in the Pacific over the Aleutian islands. 

[longwood50]

8 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Yes because you and all the right wingers know more than the US and Canadian military.

Well I don't know more about the US or Canadian military but I have traveled extensively in Canada.  The vast majority of the country is uninhabited.  I have also been to Montana where like most states the population centers are in the cities.  Montana would roughly be 70% the geographic size of France.  Yet it has only 1.1 million people.  The majority of Montana is desolate with its remoteness, weather, and rugged terrain making it not suitable for development.  

This notion that they did not want the balloon to come down and hurt someone on the ground is laughable.  Instead lit was preferable to let it continue its spy mission for 8 days and then shoot it down over the Atlantic.  The chances of the balloon hitting anything in Montana are only slightly greater than the balloon striking some boat in the Atlantic.  If this was a missle, or airplane incursion would you equally favor them letting those continue unimpeded or would the worry about falling missle or aircraft parts not be the same as those from a balloon. 

[longwood50]

8 hours ago, Soidog said:

But the analogy with taking down a missile is equally flawed.

I disagree, there is nothing to say the missle was armed with anything.  Or for that matter that while flying over the USA it was targeting anything.  It could just be laden with surveillance equipment. The point being at what point does the incursion over USA airspace warrant action be it a missle, airplance, balloon or kite launched by a foreign power.  

 

 When Gary Powers flew his U2 aircraft over Russia, they shot it down because they didn't want it spying on them.  Whether by balloon or plane Biden should not have permitted it to go unimpeded for 8 days essentially allowing it to complete its mission before destroying it.   There is no "spin" that can justify that and certainly the notion that during its travel over 3,700 km of  U.S. airspace there were no areas that were totally uninhabited is just plain false.  Years ago the airplane carrying Payne Stewart the PGA Tour pro malfunctioned and everyone on board was dead.  The plane on autopilot continued.  The military shadowed the jet until it crashed into South Dakota.  The military was on alert to potentially shoot down the airplane if it threatened a population center.  This was a a Lear Jet not a balloon and there was no such concern that the military if called upon could not destroy it traveling at hundreds of kilometers per hour in a manner that debris would not fall on  people on the ground.  

[Soidog]

35 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

I disagree, there is nothing to say the missle was armed with anything.  Or for that matter that while flying over the USA it was targeting anything.  It could just be laden with surveillance equipment.

Really! Highly unlikely that you would fire a missile filled with monitoring equipment and how would you know what it had. I also think the analogy with Gary Powers is also flawed I’m afraid. Powers was shot down in 1960 when high altitude aerial reconnaissance was the main method for spying. Today, China has multiple satellites that can spy on any country in the world. The risks of a high altitude ballon gathering vital information is far less of a threat overall compared to the situation in 1960 of a U2.

Im not disputing that it would have been better to have shot the balloon down as it entered US airspace. I’m just saying that with tensions running high and there always being a risk benefit calculation to be done, perhaps delaying such a provocative move wasn’t all bad? Even having shot it down on the East coast, this has resulted in the visit by Blinken being postponed. We need cool heads at the moment. Let’s get Putin sorted and then move on to Xi if he makes a move on Taiwan. Assuming of course you aren’t one of those Republicans who thinks the US shouldn’t intervene in the Ukraine conflict! 

[Fanta]

I think this whole thing is a media beat up about nothing of consequence while also being a sad indicator of how poor the communication is between China and the US. Imagine if it was something serious or life threatening such as a new Spice Girls album sent to pollute the airwaves? The horror! 

[longwood50]

46 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Assuming of course you aren’t one of those Republicans who thinks the US shouldn’t intervene in the Ukraine conflict! 

I have very mixed emotions about Ukraine.  While I emphasize with the country being invaded, I am not sure why America always has to have a dog in every fight.  The USA went down similar paths in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan only to expend billions of dollars, and in the other instances thousands of lives. 

Now in terms of tensions I disagree.  Placating an adversary by allowing them to breach your borders is not a good strategy for building peace through strength.  Such lack of action only emboldens them to try future and potentially more agressive incursions. 

What possibly is the purpose of NORAD if it is not to give early warning to unidentified incoming aircraft, and preventing their incursion over US territory.   One thing is for sure, irrepective of any political fallout, you don't let the balloon go unimpeded for 8 days allowing it to finish its mission and then destroy it.  Do you think the Chinese would still be happy that their equipment was still destroyed because it was 8 days later.  Seems like the fact they "may" be irritated was just kicking the can down the road 8 days.