News Forum - Olympic Games on the brink as 40 nations threaten to pull out

[Thaiger]

Poland‘s Sport and Tourism Minister, Kamil Bortniczuk reckons that up to 40 countries could boycott the next Olympic Games. This comes after Poland, Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia jointly rejected an International Olympic Committee (IOC) plan to allow Russian and Belarusian athletes to compete in the 2024 Paris Olympics. Bortniczuk said… “Considering this, I don’t think …

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[Khunmark]

Competing as an independent athlete makes sense and is a simple solution to the problem. Furthermore, there is a precedence for athletes competing under the Olympic banner. That an athlete is born to a particular country, it doesn’t follow that the he/she is in agreement with the policies of that country. Vale, Peter Norman.

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Khunmark said:

Competing as an independent athlete makes sense and is a simple solution to the problem. Furthermore, there is a precedence for athletes competing under the Olympic banner. That an athlete is born to a particular country, it doesn’t follow that the he/she is in agreement with the policies of that country. Vale, Peter Norman.

It doesn’t follow that they are in disagreement with the policies either. That’s the subtle point. Having Russian or Belarusian athletes standing on a podium, even without their flag and anthem is still unacceptable given what their nations are doing. I’d ban them not just for Paris, but for at least the next one also. 
 

I know we can easily get in to the debate of why punish the people for the ways of a few corrupt leaders, but to me, that totally misses the point. This is a problem for the Russian people to resolve. All Russian people. Get out there and solve it. Don’t do anything else until it is. That includes trips to the Olympics and holidays in Thailand. Life should not be allowed to go on as normal for Russians until they do. Stop it all. 

[Grumpish]

4 hours ago, Khunmark said:

Competing as an independent athlete makes sense and is a simple solution to the problem. Furthermore, there is a precedence for athletes competing under the Olympic banner. That an athlete is born to a particular country, it doesn’t follow that the he/she is in agreement with the policies of that country. Vale, Peter Norman.

Russian athletes are selected and trained by the state from an early age, for the purposes of showing to the world the superiority of the motherland. It would probably be very hard to find any truly independent Olympic level Russian athletes.

[Rookiescot]

I would allow Russian athletes to compete as neutrals. No flags, no anthem.

However it should be explained to them that any attempt to send a message of support for Russia (wearing emblems, making gestures etc) would result in their medal being removed.

I would also subject them to extensive dope testing because they cheat.

A lot.

[BigHewer]

Interesting to see if this affects France’s approach. As hosts, they won’t want to see the whole thing implode. 

I predict the French approach to Russia will become more “malleable” if the calls for a boycott grow louder.

[oldschooler]

14 hours ago, Khunmark said:

Competing as an independent athlete makes sense and is a simple solution to the problem. Furthermore, there is a precedence for athletes competing under the Olympic banner. That an athlete is born to a particular country, it doesn’t follow that the he/she is in agreement with the policies of that country. Vale, Peter Norman.

No Russian Passport Holder should be entering any civilized country nor be holding any assets there.

They are collectively responsible for the criminal actions of their govt. and for doing very little about it.

No doubt many Ukrainians had plans to attend the next Olympics but now lie dead in cities or fields by Russian criminal actions. Why should Russians get to attend then ? 

[Metoo]

It's the same for all dictatorial regimes.

Until we start to call them out and actually do something about it, nothing will change.

The people who 'look the other way' are the ones who perpetuate the problem.

Saying and doing nothing, only helps serve the dictators.

Take a stance, do something to call out these evil human beings.....do something, don't skirt around the problem in the hope it'll be alright in the end, because it won't.

Doing nothing and trying to cosy up in the hope they'll come round to sense DOES NOT WORK.

Europe tried with Hitler......FAIL.

Europe tried with Russia......FAIL.

When will folks wake up.....Dictators don't give a flying F*ck what normal human beings think, and never will.

[Khunmark]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

No Russian Passport Holder should be entering any civilized country nor be holding any assets there.

They are collectively responsible for the criminal actions of their govt. and for doing very little about it.

No doubt many Ukrainians had plans to attend the next Olympics but now lie dead in cities or fields by Russian criminal actions. Why should Russians get to attend then ? 

Because, from the athletes perspective the Olympic Games is the opportunity to compete at the highest level in their chosen sport. For them it is the culmination of a lifetimes work. And for them it means everything. For the likes of Putin in means sweet FA. You think he cares if Russia is forbidden to complete at the Olympics?

Furthermore, by excluding all Russian athletes on the basis of their nationality assumes that every Russian is in support of the war on Ukraine (which I can assure you they are not) and ignores the fact the they are plenty of ethnic groups (the Tartars) as an example that don’t and never have identified themselves as being Russian.

What you fail to realise is nationhood is a social construct beyond the control of the individual and the borders a drawn arbitrarily. By a quirk of fate you could be born 100 metres down the road on the other side of the border and be on your way to Paris AND support Putin. Which by the way a number of Belorussians do.

No. Let them compete. Let them compete under the Olympic banner. No flag. No national anthem.

 

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

No Russian Passport Holder should be entering any civilized country nor be holding any assets there.

They are collectively responsible for the criminal actions of their govt. and for doing very little about it.

No doubt many Ukrainians had plans to attend the next Olympics but now lie dead in cities or fields by Russian criminal actions. Why should Russians get to attend then ? 

 

[Soidog]

5 hours ago, Khunmark said:

Because, from the athletes perspective the Olympic Games is the opportunity to compete at the highest level in their chosen sport. For them it is the culmination of a lifetimes work. And for them it means everything. For the likes of Putin in means sweet FA. You think he cares if Russia is forbidden to complete at the Olympics?

Furthermore, by excluding all Russian athletes on the basis of their nationality assumes that every Russian is in support of the war on Ukraine (which I can assure you they are not) and ignores the fact the they are plenty of ethnic groups (the Tartars) as an example that don’t and never have identified themselves as being Russian.

What you fail to realise is nationhood is a social construct beyond the control of the individual and the borders a drawn arbitrarily. By a quirk of fate you could be born 100 metres down the road on the other side of the border and be on your way to Paris AND support Putin. Which by the way a number of Belorussians do.

No. Let them compete. Let them compete under the Olympic banner. No flag. No national anthem.

It doesn’t matter if as individuals they support or don’t support Putin. Banning Russian and Belarusian athletes sends the message that the world will not allow life to carry on as normal until change happens. Of course this move will hardly register with Putin and he will spin it as western aggression. This all about symbolism and showing the world your support against dictators like Putin.
 

If you advocate allowing them to compete, where do you draw the line? Are we to simply carry on and allow Russians to behave as though nothing bad was happening by their government in Ukraine? It’s the same reason why Russian Passport holders should not be allowed out of Russia and certainly not to relax and have fun on Thai beaches. 

[BigHewer]

16 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Of course this move will hardly register with Putin and he will spin it as western aggression.

This is the key point @Soidogand it’s a win win for Putin: If they’re allowed to compete, it demonstrates that aggression doesn’t matter; if they’re excluded, it neatly feeds into  the siege mentality. 

[Soidog]

21 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

This is the key point @Soidogand it’s a win win for Putin: If they’re allowed to compete, it demonstrates that aggression doesn’t matter; if they’re excluded, it neatly feeds into  the siege mentality. 

Yes, on the face of it you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t. However, the point is not to teach Putin a lesson, it’s to signal to other nations your disapproval of the actions of Russia. Allies will take note and hopefully follow your lead. I guess it’s like all diplomacy in that it needs to be persistent and consistent.  It often falls short on both counts! 
 

Normally I would not advocate mixing sport and politics. I didn’t like the World Cup being handed to Qatar, but didn’t support a ban for example. The issues and differences with Qatar are cultural, political and human rights related. It’s a major issue but it’s far from all out war with a neighbouring country that Russia is engaged in. We can only hope that the Russian people will do something about it soon. I’m not holding my breath.

[Fanta]

For all I care they can burn the flags and instead of national anthems substitute the Death March from Star Wars but let the athletes compete because those individuals have earned it. 

[Metoo]

 

Allowing the athletes to compete achieves nothing.

Allowing them to compete with no flag or national anthem achieves nothing.

Everyone who watches the games will know instantly where the athletes are from if there is no anthem or flag.

Sure, they will have trained most of their lives to compete in these games, but they need to see that the rest of the civilised world will not accept dictatorial murderers, and for them to realise their goals in a global event they need to oust the abhorrent leadership that has caused their problem.

 

Change has to come from within the country.

If you ban their citizens from travelling/competing, this sends a strong message to those people.

They need to stand up and oust the dictator that has caused them to be excluded.

It's up to them to make the change.

This is one of many ways in which the citizens of such a country must rise up and take their country back out of the hands of an evil human being.

It's the only way, as every other passive, softly softly approach to dictators has consistently failed and always will.

[Marble-eye]

Russias athletes are very strongly connected to the military or the police, in the Tokyo Olympics in 2022 about half of the 77 medals that Russia amassed were won by the military and the police. Surely it is fitting that other athletes should not be rubbing shoulders with Russian athletes that are associated with the death and destruction we are witnessing on a daily basis. 

https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/334095-tokyo-olympics-military-soldiers

[Sawarot]

The Olympic movement is rotten to the core. All the way from countries selecting the most promising kids for development while letting the rest get fat with no opportunities for exercise, to the weird country-hopping of athletes and coaches. The mind-boggling circumstances under which a pole-vaulter or a triple jump specialist can earn a living for their skills. Not to mention the insane amounts of money being spent on broadcasting rights. Or on the development of new enhancement drugs that aren't yet on the list of banned substances. 

In this fundamentally sick environment what does it matter if Russian athletes participate? Well, I would argue that the games can ill afford getting dirtier.

[Grumpish]

1 hour ago, Marble-eye said:

Russias athletes are very strongly connected to the military or the police, in the Tokyo Olympics in 2022 about half of the 77 medals that Russia amassed were won by the military and the police. Surely it is fitting that other athletes should not be rubbing shoulders with Russian athletes that are associated with the death and destruction we are witnessing on a daily basis. 

https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/334095-tokyo-olympics-military-soldiers

Olympic level Russian ahletes and the Russian state are inextricably linked - training facilities are state owned and controlled, coaches almost invariably have a dual role as political handlers. It would be very questionable if any Russian athlete competing as an independent was actually that - it is difficult to imagine them being allowed to continue using the training facilities without agreeing to follow the official state line.

[Viggen840]

On 2/3/2023 at 7:15 PM, Grumpish said:

Russian athletes are selected and trained by the state from an early age, for the purposes of showing to the world the superiority of the motherland. It would probably be very hard to find any truly independent Olympic level Russian athletes.

Exactly the same with the Chinese, both with their breeding of 'athletes' and their aggression to nations in the area (and ranging further year by year).

Of course, by slighting the Asian bully, the rest of the world will once again experience the face-saving histrionics of trade sanctions by them. I look forward to that - China cutting their nose to spite their face.

[Khunmark]

Well, thankfully the IOC and the Whitehouse haven’t fallen for the posturing coming out the Ukraine, whom, by the way, in an unprecedented move, have called upon bans for Belarus. A country that didn’t invade the Ukraine. Where will it all end? Interestingly, the countries sympathetic to Russia are no fewer than 14, with many more indifferent to the war in Ukraine. Are these countries to be banned to?  For now wiser heads prevail.
 

 

[Pinetree]

I gave up watching the Olympics a good few of them ago.  Once it became professional, and what followed in drug scandals', it lost its appeal. What would bring me back to it,  would be a 'free for all' Olympics, where athletes didn't compete by country, but  could legally take any and all drugs they liked , bit like professional body building.  Watching some drugged up Russian running the 100 meters in 7 seconds, or throwing the Javelin 2 km, then expiring with a massive heart attack would be worth watching.  

[longwood50]

“Threatening a boycott of the Olympic Games goes against the fundamentals of the Olympic movement and the principles it stands for. Says the IOC

 

Seems to me that turning the Olympic Games into a political fray goes against the fundamentals of the Olympic movement and the principles it stands for. 

Why does the IOC seem to think it needs to have a dog in this fight.  In truth the only one you are penalizing are the atheletes who trained for years to earn the right to compete in the games. You sure are not hurting Putin or Russia. 

[oldschooler]

11 hours ago, Fanta said:

For all I care they can burn the flags and instead of national anthems substitute the Death March from Star Wars but let the athletes compete because those individuals have earned it. 

Fine. WHEN they change Passport Country.

Otherwise these athletes are the proverbial turd in the punch hole.

Russians anywhere outside Russia are as Toxic as hell.

Unless having renounced Putin  by having another nation’s passport.

PLUS signal required that Russian political & military evil acts are unacceptable 

PLUS Their attendance in Sport will tend to force out many athletes on grounds of conscience.

PLUS Russia already Banned from much Sport due to State Sponsored Doping. 

[Khunmark]

4 hours ago, Pinetree said:

I gave up watching the Olympics a good few of them ago.  Once it became professional, and what followed in drug scandals', it lost its appeal. What would bring me back to it,  would be a 'free for all' Olympics, where athletes didn't compete by country, but  could legally take any and all drugs they liked , bit like professional body building.  Watching some drugged up Russian running the 100 meters in 7 seconds, or throwing the Javelin 2 km, then expiring with a massive heart attack would be worth watching.  

You would have enjoyed 1988 in Seoul then. 7 of the 8 finalist in the mens 100m at some point later in their tested positive for using a banned substance.