News Forum - MP says cannabis helps reduce Yaba addicts in Bangkok

[Thaiger]

Bhumjaithai Party MP Suphachai Jaismut believes the legalising of cannabis has led to a decrease in the use of methamphetamine (also known as Yaba) in Bangkok. Suphachai posted on Facebook yesterday that, “Ganja comes, Yaba goes away.” The Bhumjaithai Party MP admitted that he never expected legalising cannabis would decrease the use of methamphetamine. He …

The story MP says cannabis helps reduce Yaba addicts in Bangkok as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Soidog]

Boll*cks! Cannabis is a gateway drug for many. It’s dangerous enough to introduce legal use in a country with high education standards and economic prospects. Doing it in a place like Thailand is reckless. 

[Faraday]

This is not only misguided, but also wrong.

It's just substituting one drug for another & the dependence is just switched to another substance, which in turn can & does lead to further issues.

 

There are a few studies about this, but CBD is used in a Clinical setting, not someone rolling up a few joints.

https://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/24/14/2583

Conclusions

"A limited number of preclinical studies indicate that CBD could have therapeutic properties on cocaine and METH addiction and some preliminary data suggest that CBD may be beneficial in cocaine-crack addiction in humans."

[Jason240185]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

Boll*cks! Cannabis is a gateway drug for many. It’s dangerous enough to introduce legal use in a country with high education standards and economic prospects. Doing it in a place like Thailand is reckless. 

It's not a gateway drug for everyone. I have many friends that have only drunk alcohol or smoked weed. Not done any other drug. If you choose to do any particular drug thats your choice. People dont think "Oh weed is nice, maybe I should try Heroin or Cocaine". Weed smokers are not forced to try other drugs. Its their choice and their choice only. I find it a joke as alcohol is and has been legal for centuries in 99% of countries in the world and kills hundreds of thousands per year. Yet no one talks about making alcohol illeagal. Deaths purely from Cannabis only? ZERO. In some cases, people that have used cannabis long term have experienced psychosis. But these cases are few and far between. Compared to every other recreational drug. Its the safest.

2 hours ago, Faraday said:

This is not only misguided, but also wrong.

It's just substituting one drug for another & the dependence is just switched to another substance, which in turn can & does lead to further issues.

There are a few studies about this, but CBD is used in a Clinical setting, not someone rolling up a few joints.

https://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/24/14/2583

Conclusions

"A limited number of preclinical studies indicate that CBD could have therapeutic properties on cocaine and METH addiction and some preliminary data suggest that CBD may be beneficial in cocaine-crack addiction in humans."

These people are addicts. They have to have something. They dont have enough money for professional help or rehab. Yaba has serious debilitating effects. Can overdose very easily and kill yourself as well. Cause's a lot of problems for other people due to violent tendencies while on the drug too. Very physically addictive driving addicts to commit crimes for their next fix. None of these are problems that Cannabis causes. Cannabis, while certainly not healthy, is 100 times better than doing Meth in terms of long term negative effects. FACT.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Jason240185

[Soidog]

7 minutes ago, Jason240185 said:

It's not a gateway drug for everyone.

Which is why I said “many” not “everyone”.

The point is, that in a low education society with poor economic opportunities, you are in real danger of it becoming a gateway drug for many.
 

It is one thing to start trying to reverse laws on drugs such as tobacco and alcohol, it’s an entirely different issue to start moving down the road of legalising more drugs. Cannabis is a drug. It should never have been added to the list of drugs like alcohol that already cause such harm to society. 

[Chatogaster]

58 minutes ago, Jason240185 said:

It's not a gateway drug for everyone.

 

Studies so far are almost always inconclusive and some contradict each other, but they all agree it is a gateway drug for some (it's the fraction that isn't agreed upon). Just picking a low but otherwise random fraction, say it's 1 in a thousand. If cannabis availability increases inversely by just one order of magnitude more (say 10,000 times, which is more than easily achievable by allowing everyone to grow the plants), then there'll be 10 times more people going through that gateway (resulting in 10 times as many heavy-drug addicts). 

Making cannabis readily available is a gamble (it does indeed have benefits like some you referred to in the part of your post that I didn't quote). The Netherlands made a similar gamble over 2 decades ago, and it worked (and still works) for them. However, they started with a well thought through legislation, and introduced many side programs related to education, monitoring (mostly of suppliers and home growers), rehabilitation programs, medically prescribed synthetic opiates etc.

However, Thailand's approach isn't well thought through. It's the traditional Thai (governmental) way of making some radical change, then sit back/do something else, and finally be forced to deal with adverse effects after they have arrived.

I don't mind the fact that cannabis is legalized per se, but I do worry about how Thailand has legalized it (and is trying to catch up with mistakes already made).

 

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Chatogaster said:

Studies so far are almost always inconclusive and some contradict each other, but they all agree it is a gateway drug for some (it's the fraction that isn't agreed upon). Just picking a low but otherwise random fraction, say it's 1 in a thousand. If cannabis availability increases inversely by just one order of magnitude more (say 10,000 times, which is more than easily achievable by allowing everyone to grow the plants), then there'll be 10 times more people going through that gateway (resulting in 10 times as many heavy-drug addicts). 

 

Making cannabis readily available is a gamble (it does indeed have benefits like some you referred to in the part of your post that I didn't quote). The Netherlands made a similar gamble over 2 decades ago, and it worked (and still works) for them. However, they started with a well thought through legislation, and introduced many side programs related to education, monitoring (mostly of suppliers and home growers), rehabilitation programs, medically prescribed synthetic opiates etc.

 

However, Thailand's approach isn't well thought through. It's the traditional Thai (governmental) way of making some radical change, then sit back/do something else, and finally be forced to deal with adverse effects after they have arrived.

 

I don't mind the fact that cannabis is legalized per sebut I do worry about how Thailand has legalized it (and is trying to catch up with mistakes already made).

 

 

Cannabis is a gateway drug in that a % of people who tried Cannabis first were always going to be inclined to do harder drugs 

 

I don't there is many, if any, that somehow got the inclination to try other drugs because they smoked weed

[HolyCowCm]

6 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Cannabis is a gateway drug in that a % of people who tried Cannabis first were always going to be inclined to do harder drugs 

I don't there is many, if any, that somehow got the inclination to try other drugs because they smoked weed

Gateway drug shmug. Rock n Roll, Porn, women in mini skirts and high heels, open forums are all also things that can be considered gateway drugs. Depends on the definition. Let’s say even Thailand and Go- Go bars became an addition which has devastated  lots and lots of folk. 

Now I would say vaping is a big one eith the youngsters today, but that probably leads to alcohol. 

Weed is no longer seriously thought of like that. Let’s talk a prescription from the el-doctor. Now that is a more feel me good and wanting more and then next getting bit and feeling the bite. 
 

I personally like weed but not all the time as is the same as alcohol etc. 

How about the gateway of gym workouts trying to get buffed? Does that necessarily lead to steroids, a big swollen ego and small junk? 

[Wackamole]

9 hours ago, Soidog said:

Which is why I said “many” not “everyone”.

But clearly it's not "many" either. And no offense but I'm not sure why you would want to double down on this when you seem to have no understanding of the matter.

Basically 80% of everyone I've ever known does/has done cannabis on the regular and maybe 5% of them would occasionally do something else, and mostly that would be cocaine, and maybe 5% of non cannabis users would do that too.. and truth is I've also known a few cocaine addicts that might never have done weed, and maybe it would have been better for them if they had.

There's just no meaningful correlation between cannabis use and stronger drugs use.

And by the way weed is not even something that conditions you to be an addict, you can smoke it pretty much all day everyday for years, then if you decide it you can stop overnight with no ill withdrawal effects. It's easier to drop and as such can't be called more of a gateway drug than alcohol, coffee, cigarettes, or even sugar.

[Faraday]

Steering the conversation back on to the OP, I didn't at first, understand why Kh Suphachai is saying this.

I see now, that maybe this is simply 'electioneering' as the Bhumjaithai Party was the first major party to: 

"advocate it's recreational use"

Second paragraph:

https://thekootneeti.in/2019/03/01/green-economy-bhumjaithai-party-campaigns-cannabis-farming/

The third paragraph mentions that:

"... marijuana doesn't have any negative effects.."

It clearly does, with some people.

I do wonder if any of these fine gentlemen,  have Cannabis farms, & being a bit cynical, was this also a promotional statement by him?

The way I interpreted this, is the implication that a few spliffs will get one off Yaba.

Addiction, just isn't so straightforward now, is it....

 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Wackamole said:

But clearly it's not "many" either. And no offense but I'm not sure why you would want to double down on this when you seem to have no understanding of the matter.

Basically 80% of everyone I've ever known does/has done cannabis on the regular and maybe 5% of them would occasionally do something else, and mostly that would be cocaine, and maybe 5% of non cannabis users would do that too.. and truth is I've also known a few cocaine addicts that might never have done weed, and maybe it would have been better for them if they had.

There's just no meaningful correlation between cannabis use and stronger drugs use.

And by the way weed is not even something that conditions you to be an addict, you can smoke it pretty much all day everyday for years, then if you decide it you can stop overnight with no ill withdrawal effects. It's easier to drop and as such can't be called more of a gateway drug than alcohol, coffee, cigarettes, or even sugar.

This crazy world doesn’t need more recreational drugs. It already has enough. If we were starting afresh I would be equally against tobacco and alcohol. None offer any benefit to individuals or society as a whole. The debate about it being a gateway drug is just that, debatable. I don’t care. It’s just another drug that the world doesn’t need. There is something wrong in the world when so many people simply can’t wait to get their hands in yet another escape from reality. People need to grow up! 
Sorry, but we will need to agree to disagree on this one. 

[Wackamole]

9 hours ago, Soidog said:

This crazy world doesn’t need more recreational drugs. It already has enough. If we were starting afresh I would be equally against tobacco and alcohol. None offer any benefit to individuals or society as a whole. The debate about it being a gateway drug is just that, debatable. I don’t care. It’s just another drug that the world doesn’t need. There is something wrong in the world when so many people simply can’t wait to get their hands in yet another escape from reality. People need to grow up! 
Sorry, but we will need to agree to disagree on this one. 

I have no problem with your opinion that you are qualified enough to decide by yourself and with little information (accurate or not) what we all need or should get rid of. If that's how you wanna be it's perfectly fine.

I was just addressing your point of it being a getaway drug. Anyway it's also fine as you now seem to be dismissing it as rather unimportant to your firm beliefs.. of course it looked quite important then when you brought it up so decisively.

I'll just finish by saying I doubt strongly that many are seeing any of the things you listed as an escape from reality. It might help to cope a bit though, and in the case of cannabis, actually might give perspective and help steer clear of the worst paths.

You're very right something is wrong in the world.. So I suggest we try to focus on what we can help try to right rather than on non issues that we know mostly nothing about.

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Wackamole said:

I have no problem with your opinion that you are qualified enough to decide by yourself and with little information (accurate or not) what we all need or should get rid of. If that's how you wanna be it's perfectly fine.

I was just addressing your point of it being a getaway drug. Anyway it's also fine as you now seem to be dismissing it as rather unimportant to your firm beliefs.. of course it looked quite important then when you brought it up so decisively.

I'll just finish by saying I doubt strongly that many are seeing any of the things you listed as an escape from reality. It might help to cope a bit though, and in the case of cannabis, actually might give perspective and help steer clear of the worst paths.

You're very right something is wrong in the world.. So I suggest we try to focus on what we can help try to right rather than on non issues that we know mostly nothing about.

Well I’m not downplaying my a comments about it being a gateway drug. I just think it’s a debate that will lead to a lot of wasted time. While I accept that in more educated and prosperous countries, the chances of it leading to more serious drug abuse is less, in places like Thailand and especially rural Thailand, I think the numbers moving to Yabba and other stronger drugs will be more significant. 
 

There is also evidence to show that people who use Cannabis  are more likely to abuse alcohol and tobacco. Overall, I simply see no net positives coming from legalising a drug that will simply make a minority wealthy at the cost of the many. Maybe there are some therapeutic benefits to cannabis in terms of mental health. This is not how I think it will play out in a country like Thailand.