News Forum - Young British woman ‘may never walk again’ after fall from balcony in Thailand

[Damie1967]

19 hours ago, Fanta said:

I was waiting for the GoFund Me pitch. Hope she gets better soon. 

I was waiting as well… sounds like the ‘rejected’ stamp is being inked already waiting for insurance forms to come in.

Not going to look at any GoFundMe’s for this!

[BOHICA]

This is baloney! "“Maddi’s partner hasn’t left her side and has been given two plastic chairs to sleep on."

I have never been in a Thai or Filipino hospital where there wasn't a bed in the room for your significant other.

and don't expect Farang balcony railings either! Thais are MUCH shorter than Westerners. It is also stupid to be carrying your valuables to a public event in some flimsy fashionable purse! Your just looking to get jacked! If you had paid to get a decent room they all have safes in them or the front desk does! But I forgot, she is blond...

  I would bet you that she walks out of that hospital too. I am sure the mother catastrophized that also. FYI Thailand has some of the best hospitals and surgeons in the WORLD!!! If your going to get drunk and fall off a balcony there is no better place to do it than in Thailand! ;)

[thingamabob]

A slightly confusing story. A friend from another room apparently came to her aid, not her partner. She had lost valuables she was carrying during new year celebrations. Their hotel room was poorly equipped and insecure. The hospital room had no spare bed. I think there is more to this sad accident than appears in the article. In any event, hopefully she  recovers. Hospitals in Thailand are generally excellent and well staffed.

[TWS60]

Bellying up to a balcony railing or window ledge seems to be an irresistible urge for people on holiday.   Just look at that spectacular view.   

Always do a push/pull/shake test on balcony railings here and even then, don't lean on them as it's quite common for the height to be at or just below the hip level fulcrum point for average height farangs.   Intoxication a frequent contributing factor.   Also avoid touching or leaning on outdoor electrics like metal lamp posts.

Less terminal but similar design quirks here with kitchen counter tops and sinks that are just right for average Thais, but "just" a bit too low for average farang height.  Also mind your head and eyeballs near extractor fan hoods over cookers, and do the funky chicken farang squat to get under a (non-adjustable) shower head that's mounted 'just' a bit too low. 

[socal]

7 hours ago, Soidog said:

Yes please. Much safer that way. The world can learn a lot. 

Ok. But I meant  the height. I'd imagine rails in Asia are lower than the ones in say the Netherlands. Bc Asian ppl are shorter

[socal]

6 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

Until a child or a vertically-challenged visitor falls though the gap in the balcony's vertical rails.

<For the hard-of-learning: The text above may contain traces of sarcasm>

10 years ago, there was a story about a 4 year old boy who managed to get on the wrong side of a View Talay condo balcony. He did not survive. The father later committed suicide 

Edited January 4, 2023 by socal

[TWS60]

1st house build here was the wife's on-going family-run project while we were still working/living abroad, so I didn't have input, not that I had any experience to lend in the first place.  So her brothers whacked it up solidly, but with all the typical SNAFUs and annoyances I came to learn about later on.    

First time we flew in for a visit, went up onto the 1st floor balcony and without thinking about it, as you do, we stood up next to the railing to gaze out over the tree tops and back pond area.  Lovely, innit?    I'm 5' 10.5" / 179cm and clearly remember the moment I realized the top of the railing was mostly hitting the tops of my thighs, just barely to the pelvis.  It felt too low, because it was, at least for me, so I took a 1/2 step back.   Note to Self....    

Roughly the same way I learned about dodgy electrics from the finger tingle I received off the bathroom light switch in Mazatlán.  Oh, hello!      

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, socal said:

Ok. But I meant  the height. I'd imagine rails in Asia are lower than the ones in say the Netherlands. Bc Asian ppl are shorter

I don’t know the specifications of the respective countries. All I know is that I’ve often looked at a Thai balcony and thought “That railing looks low”. I never book a hotel room with a balcony and if I’m given one I don’t go out on it. I’m 6’2” and in the past just don’t feel safe on many balconies. It’s not a height thing as in the past I climbed up to 300 metre telecom towers as part of my work. 

[cowslip]

Basically building regulations are an international science - time and again Thailand ignore international standards. Yet, they rely on tourism for up to 20% of their GDP - they have an obligation to their customers to maintain certain standards of safety in ALL areas. Claiming "TIT" is not an excuse, it's a reason to apportion blame.

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, cowslip said:

Basically building regulations are an international science - time and again Thailand ignore international standards. Yet, they rely on tourism for up to 20% of their GDP - they have an obligation to their customers to maintain certain standards of safety in ALL areas. Claiming "TIT" is not an excuse, it's a reason to apportion blame.

Couldn’t agree more. But when the attitude by many in authority sees tourists as a commodity then what can you expect. Tourists are seen in the same way fishermen regard the fish they’ve caught. You even hear words and phrases such as “The next batch” being used to describe tourists. I did hope the spotlight placed on tourists and foreigners in particular during Covid, may be the kick up the backside many needed. Some hope! 

[cowslip]

13 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Couldn’t agree more. But when the attitude by many in authority sees tourists as a commodity then what can you expect. Tourists are seen in the same way fishermen regard the fish they’ve caught. You even hear words and phrases such as “The next batch” being used to describe tourists. I did hope the spotlight placed on tourists and foreigners in particular during Covid, may be the kick up the backside many needed. Some hope! 

In the long run, farmers do best when they look after their animals.

[Bluesofa]

5 minutes ago, cowslip said:

18 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Couldn’t agree more. But when the attitude by many in authority sees tourists as a commodity then what can you expect. Tourists are seen in the same way fishermen regard the fish they’ve caught. You even hear words and phrases such as “The next batch” being used to describe tourists. I did hope the spotlight placed on tourists and foreigners in particular during Covid, may be the kick up the backside many needed. Some hope! 

In the long run, farmers do best when they look after their animals.

A good analogy. I just hope there's no plans for stun gun use.

[cowslip]

3 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

A good analogy. I just hope there's no plans for stun gun use.

Thailand already has a paramilitary police force.....and lese majeste laws

[Soidog]

12 minutes ago, cowslip said:

In the long run, farmers do best when they look after their animals.

Like the analogy and it’s certainly true

7 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

A good analogy. I just hope there's no plans for stun gun use.

Actually there are such plans. The RTP are about to get new Hi-Viz vests and stun guns. This will make you smile
 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2473144/patrol-police-to-look-brighter-and-friendlier

[Bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Like the analogy and it’s certainly true

Actually there are such plans. The RTP are about to get new Hi-Viz vests and stun guns. This will make you smile
 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2473144/patrol-police-to-look-brighter-and-friendlier

Oh, me and my big mouth.
I'd better not mention 'ritual slaughter', after the Joe Ferrari incident.

[Wackamole]

It feels like some of these railings are just meant to be a reminder like "oh right better not fall off the edge".

Thai culture is more about expecting individuals not to act like fools rather than doing everything necessary to protect them. Which in many ways is great because you get more freedom as a result. These "unsafe" balconies are part of the deal. And you could probably manage to stay alive while spending time on one if you really wanted to.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Wackamole

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Wackamole said:

It feels like some of these railings are just meant to be a reminder like "oh right better not fall off the edge".

Thai culture is more about expecting individuals not to act like fools rather than doing everything necessary to protect them. Which in many ways is great because you get more freedom as a result. These "unsafe" balconies are part of the deal. And you could probably manage to stay alive while spending time on one if you really wanted to.

I think that’s right @Wackamole  Most standards are meant to catch those relatively rare issues when people are careless. The same applies to electrical standards. I guess it depends on your individual circumstances and outlook on life. I make sure I don’t lean against anything that would result in death if it has a design fault. Railings, lamp posts etc. 

[cowslip]

 

 

Thai culture is just not fully developed. Most people are totally unaware of how health and safety may have ALREADY saved them form injury or even saved their lives – safer buildings, safer roads, public areas, dangerous chemicals and goods – the public is protected from much of this – even in Thailand. The fact that people HAVEN’T had an accident is proof that it works.

People will be people anywhere in the world and the results are the same,,,,,

It's nothing to do with freedom - its more to do with preserving freedoms - injured people (and dead ones) cost a country money.

Either medical bills, or funerals but it a lot more than that - loss of an income earner in a family can be devastating and if Thailand's reputation for being dangerous gets more publicity it affects the tourist industry.

Road accidents alone cost Thailand over 10% of their GDP.

 

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

. I make sure I don’t lean against anything that would result in death if it has a design fault.

That's not how human error works

EVERYONE no exceptions - makes mistakes and H&S is the science of minimising the results.

[Donald]

A sad story to say the least. I hope she will recover and not be permanently disabled. Blaming the balcony is certainly a stupid thing to say . You don't have to go to Thailand for this phenomenon though. I used to live on Majorca and every year there are dozens af fatalities and serious injuries among young people falling from balconies. What puzzled me was that they where nearly all Brits. This being odd as there where equally many other young tourists from all over the world that got equally drunk but didn't seem to be so propense to fall from balconies. 

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

That's not how human error works

EVERYONE no exceptions - makes mistakes and H&S is the science of minimising the results.

Yes I agree. But as H&S doesn’t feature too well in Thailand, I take whatever precautions I can. Not saying it’s fool proof but I try to limit exposure to the risk. 

[Marc26]

That is a short balcony!!

 

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/01/thailand-balcony.jpg

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Yes I agree. But as H&S doesn’t feature too well in Thailand, I take whatever precautions I can. Not saying it’s fool proof but I try to limit exposure to the risk. 

 

There is no way anyone can totally avoid human error, that is why health and safety designs systems to anticipate this.

Human errors work in different ways:

It has been shown that human error falls largely into one of three principle categories.

 First is a perceptual error. Critical information that is below the threshold for seeing - the light was too dim, the person was blinded by some glare, balcony had low contrast parameters.

 In other cases, the person made a perceptual misjudgement (a balustrade’s handrail or slippery surface or just, poorly defined glass panels

Then and far more common cause is that the critical information was missed because the person had been drinking and the design of the item in this case balcony did not accommodation this.

So if the person hadn’t been drinking there was a failure to notice because mental resources were focussed elsewhere. Often a person says they  did not "see" something plainly visible from a different perspective

Finally, the person processes the information correctly but for one reason or another doesn’t choose the correct response because of slow reactions or make the correct decision yet fail to carry it out  - e.g. fail to grab hold of the handrail.

Just saying “I’m always careful” doesn’t work because with human error, much of our information processing occurs outside of awareness

 

 

[cowslip]

54 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

That is a short balcony!!

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/01/thailand-balcony.jpg

you mean low balustrade?

[Marc26]

5 minutes ago, cowslip said:

you mean low balustrade?

Had to look that up

But yes!

 

Low railing I meant, well don't even know if it can be called a railing.............