What are Health Services like in your country?

[Marble-eye]

6 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

Why don't you answer my question about Marxists? Why don't you give us all the benefit of this knowedge that seems unique to you.

As for the devolved NHS countries, they still rely on central funding from Westminster, so their independence is limited. Regardless, NHS Scotland has managed to gain acceptance of a 7.5% pay offer by Unite Union. Compare that with the 2%, since increased to 3%, offered NHS England staff.

And why have you fallen back into your old ways of insulting other members, FYI, I haven't got a "dealer" and I have never had one as I have never had any inclination to take drugs, have you John?

But look on the bright side John, the few members that seem to be siding with Mick Lynch have lost more money by striking and any pay rise they might receive will not compensate for the money they've lost, I wonder how much Mick Lynch has lost. Just another militant union leader who doesn't give two hoots about his members as it's all about him.

 

[JohninDublin]

9 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

And why have you fallen back into your old ways of insulting other members, FYI, I haven't got a "dealer" and I have never had one as I have never had any inclination to take drugs, have you John?

But look on the bright side John, the few members that seem to be siding with Mick Lynch have lost more money by striking and any pay rise they might receive will not compensate for the money they've lost, I wonder how much Mick Lynch has lost. Just another militant union leader who doesn't give two hoots about his members as it's all about him.

You made a fool of yourself with virtually every sentence in your OP. You were asked did you really believe what you had written? Had I been asked such a question, I would have checked my facts and got ready to defend my post or corrected it. Either you failed to do so, or had no problems in fuelling the fire with further untruths or obfuscation.

i admit that I deplore this gov, and even if I am biased, that does not detract from the truthfulness of the points I have made. Can you say the same about your posts?

This is not about unions trying to overthrow democracy. This is about the fact that in the 12 years that this gov has been power, public sector wages have been reduced by 15% in real terms. Now throw into that equation, that with double digit inflation and the gov's offer of 4% to nurses, that will soon become 20%. I don't know about you, but I would think that I was a nurse trying to live to my 2010 standard of living, I might by now be needing help from a food bank by now.

But apart from this, do you not see the unreasonableness of a gov, that is telling employers how much they can pay these people, but will not deal directly with the affected workers and at least listen to their concerns?

[Pinetree]

21 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Have you ever seen or heard of a country suffering from deflation?

Japan, for many years.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decades

[Soidog]

Overall, the U.K. health are service is fantastic. Of course such a massive organisation will have problems, some downright dreadful and tragic. Overall however, it’s a fantastic service and serves you from cradle to grave. 
 

The only thing I would change in the NHS is to get it to return to the basics of what it was founded to do. Scrap all the nonsense and let people pay private for such services. The NHS should be for A&E, Child birth, major illnesses such as vital organ health, Cancers,  skeletal problems, vaccination and possibly mental health. I say possibly as that may be served better by a separate organisation? It needs to stop gender changes, gastric bands, supplying gluten free bread, chasing people who don’t have regular blood tests etc etc. The NHS needs to get back to basics 

 

[ExpatPattaya]

On 1/3/2023 at 6:39 AM, Faraday said:

What are health services like in your respective countries?

Let me Google that  55555.  Is this appropriate on a Thai news forum? 5555 .  Live here and health services in Thailand are pretty darn good, never more than one day wait to see a doctor or get "work" done  555

[Faraday]

16 minutes ago, ExpatPattaya said:

Let me Google that  55555.  Is this appropriate on a Thai news forum? 5555 .  Live here and health services in Thailand are pretty darn good, never more than one day wait to see a doctor or get "work" done  555

I posted this in TTNCA - Thaiger Talk News & Current Affairs, so yes, it is appropriate.

I did ask in my OP that Thailand was left out of the discussion.

Yes, I do live here.

[ExpatPattaya]

2 hours ago, Faraday said:

I posted this in TTNCA - Thaiger Talk News & Current Affairs, so yes, it is appropriate.

I did ask in my OP that Thailand was left out of the discussion.

Yes, I do live here.

Sorry about that, just read the title!  

[TheDirtyDurian]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:20 PM, Marble-eye said:

Of course I believe John or else I wouldn't have written it, do you think that any government whether Labour or Tory could do anything with this NHS, all too easy to blame the Tories all the time (btw, I hate this lot of socialist conservatives). 

Do you think the NHS is broken with the people that are running the whole shebang, do you think a nurse is poorly paid and needs to strike because she cannot manage on only £32,000 a year and has to use foodbanks to survive, could it have anything to do with the Marxist Unions bullies wanting to bring down a democratically elected government. Do you think that the NHS has been politicalized by all governments, or is it the fault of just the Tories. How many times have we been told that the NHS has just hours left, get some more of the hard earned tax payers money thrown down the NHS sewers. 

All governments are to blame for the mess that this misused, mismanaged and abused institution has become, if it was a horse you would shoot it. 

You seem fixated on 32k like it means something. 

Let's break those numbers down for you. 

After tax and national insurance you're left with about 25k, so just over 2k a month. 

Two bedroom flat London area, and close to runs at about £1000-1500 a month. Let's say it's £1250. You're now left with £750 for the month. 

Minus council tax £150

Minus utilities £150

We're now down to £400 for the month, or about £90 week. 

Minus travel costs, public transport, for sure a car is unaffordable, £30 for the week. 

We're now down to £60 for the week and that's our money for food and anything else that comes up. 

And this is presuming there are no kids in the picture!!

About 2500 baht a week to live on. I couldn't do that in Thailand let alone the UK! But according to you it's plenty. 

And bearing in mind that many nurses earn a lot less than 32k a year, it's no wonder they're struggling. 

Walk a mile in a nurse's shoes before you start criticising them. 

 

[Marble-eye]

25 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

You seem fixated on 32k like it means something. 

Let's break those numbers down for you. 

After tax and national insurance you're left with about 25k, so just over 2k a month. 

Two bedroom flat London area, and close to runs at about £1000-1500 a month. Let's say it's £1250. You're now left with £750 for the month. 

Minus council tax £150

Minus utilities £150

We're now down to £400 for the month, or about £90 week. 

Minus travel costs, public transport, for sure a car is unaffordable, £30 for the week. 

We're now down to £60 for the week and that's our money for food and anything else that comes up. 

And this is presuming there are no kids in the picture!!

About 2500 baht a week to live on. I couldn't do that in Thailand let alone the UK! But according to you it's plenty. 

And bearing in mind that many nurses earn a lot less than 32k a year, it's no wonder they're struggling. 

Walk a mile in a nurse's shoes before you start criticising them. 

Seeing you are so good at budgeting maybe your post might be better directed at the nurses themselves, but wait, these strikes have never been about a pay rise, it is more to do with bringing down a democratically elected government, but I'm sure you knew that anyway. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

37 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Seeing you are so good at budgeting maybe your post might be better directed at the nurses themselves, but wait, these strikes have never been about a pay rise, it is more to do with bringing down a democratically elected government, but I'm sure you knew that anyway. 

No buddy. Post was directed at you because you're the one who kept on putting 32k out there. My figures are just guestimates. 

I suggest You speak to some actual nurses for a better idea. 

"Democratically elected"

Johnson was. We've moved on 2 PMs since then!

[Marble-eye]

6 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

No buddy. Post was directed at you because you're the one who kept on putting 32k out there. My figures are just guestimates. 

I suggest You speak to some actual nurses for a better idea. 

"Democratically elected"

Johnson was. We've moved on 2 PMs since then!

Many nurses have spoken and many are very happy with their pay they are receiving, it would appear that this strike is not well supported, but many of those that are supporting it are carrying 'Tories Out" banners and "Free Palastine" banners, now you don' t need to be a genius to work out the motive of these left wing Labour activists. To hell with the patients, to hell with the country, just get the Tories out mentality. 

Now I am not for one minute saying that the Tories are doing a great job of running the country but there are ways and means of changing governments and militancy is not one of them! 

Guestimates are meaningless! 

[TheDirtyDurian]

4 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

Many nurses have spoken and many are very happy with their pay they are receiving, it would appear that this strike is not well supported, but many of those that are supporting it are carrying 'Tories Out" banners and "Free Palastine" banners, now you don' t need to be a genius to work out the motive of these left wing Labour activists. To hell with the patients, to hell with the country, just get the Tories out mentality. 

Now I am not for one minute saying that the Tories are doing a great job of running the country but there are ways and means of changing governments and militancy is not one of them! 

Guestimates are meaningless! 

Well if you have some better figures for average costs of living for someone living in London or close to then please share. I based the figures on what I know from my experience. 

I also haven't heard too many nurses speaking out and saying they're happy about their salaries, so again please share and we can see both sides of the story. 

 

[Marble-eye]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Well if you have some better figures for average costs of living for someone living in London or close to then please share. I based the figures on what I know from my experience. 

I also haven't heard too many nurses speaking out and saying they're happy about their salaries, so again please share and we can see both sides of the story. 

Is this a national strike or just London based, you seem only too happy to cherry pick London for some reason. You are the person that brought London into this debate, not me. 

So I was wrong about saying that a nurses was £32,000, apparently it is £35,600, now with your hand on your heart do you consider someone receiving £35,600 a year as being poorly paid and needs to use food banks, someone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes. The unions are looking for a 17.6% pay rise which would bring their wages up to nearly £42,000. These rises doesn't come out of the governments pocket but the dear old tax payer. Pensioners have to survive on £8000 a year and they manage. 

Maybe some of these public sector workers need to go work in the private sector for a while and then they might realise how lucky they are having such a well paid job. 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11399633/No10-given-FINAL-chance-avoid-devastating-nurses-strike.html

[TheDirtyDurian]

29 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Is this a national strike or just London based, you seem only too happy to cherry pick London for some reason. You are the person that brought London into this debate, not me. 

So I was wrong about saying that a nurses was £32,000, apparently it is £35,600, now with your hand on your heart do you consider someone receiving £35,600 a year as being poorly paid and needs to use food banks, someone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes. The unions are looking for a 17.6% pay rise which would bring their wages up to nearly £42,000. These rises doesn't come out of the governments pocket but the dear old tax payer. Pensioners have to survive on £8000 a year and they manage. 

Maybe some of these public sector workers need to go work in the private sector for a while and then they might realise how lucky they are having such a well paid job. 

I said London and close to. Population of London metropolitan area is about 15m, so quite a few people, and obviously where living costs are highest. 

Starting salary for a nurse is about 27k I believe. 

I notice you didn't provide any cost of living figures...

 

[Marble-eye]

39 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

I said London and close to. Population of London metropolitan area is about 15m, so quite a few people, and obviously where living costs are highest. 

Starting salary for a nurse is about 27k I believe. 

I notice you didn't provide any cost of living figures...

 

40 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

I said London and close to. Population of London metropolitan area is about 15m, so quite a few people, and obviously where living costs are highest. 

Starting salary for a nurse is about 27k I believe. 

I notice you didn't provide any cost of living figures...

And I notice you can't get London out of the equation, it's a national strike, so the nurses in Leeds are going to get a pay rise because the cost of living is higher in London.  

Starting salary £27,000, still not bad. But in all sincerity do you think that nearly £36,000 before overtime and whatever other perks nurses may have is bad pay? Or do you think like many that the nurses are being used as pawns in the unions attempt to bring down this elected government.

[TheDirtyDurian]

8 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

And I notice you can't get London out of the equation, it's a national strike, so the nurses in Leeds are going to get a pay rise because the cost of living is higher in London.  

Starting salary £27,000, still not bad. But in all sincerity do you think that nearly £36,000 before overtime and whatever other perks nurses may have is bad pay? Or do you think like many that the nurses are being used as pawns in the unions attempt to bring down this elected government.

See my previous post about living costs. 

In real terms, salaries are lower now than ten years ago. 

Waiting to be proved wrong on that. 

[Marble-eye]

6 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

See my previous post about living costs. 

In real terms, salaries are lower now than ten years ago. 

Waiting to be proved wrong on that. 

Stop with all this deflection and just answer the question...... is £36000 poor pay these days, not ten years ago.

[Faz]

Off-topic posts and posts inferring facts without a URL as required by the FG's will be removed.

Moderator.

[TheDirtyDurian]

56 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Stop with all this deflection and just answer the question...... is £36000 poor pay these days, not ten years ago.

https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/what-s-the-typical-starting-wage-for-a-nurse-in-the-uk/

Starting salary for a nurse is 27k a year before tax. 

https://news.sky.com/story/nurses-are-working-the-equivalent-of-one-day-a-week-for-free-research-says-12731952

Shocking fall in wages in real terms since 2011 for nurses

For renters in the UK things are very tough right now. Plus the massive inflation. 

It's strange how nothing gets expats in Los riled up more than the falling pound, and the freeze on UK government pension rates to those based in Thailand... A similar loss in purchasing power to the nurses right now. 

In simple terms, you get less for your money, and things cost more! 

[Marble-eye]

17 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/what-s-the-typical-starting-wage-for-a-nurse-in-the-uk/

Starting salary for a nurse is 27k a year before tax. 

https://news.sky.com/story/nurses-are-working-the-equivalent-of-one-day-a-week-for-free-research-says-12731952

Shocking fall in wages in real terms since 2011 for nurses

For renters in the UK things are very tough right now. Plus the massive inflation. 

It's strange how nothing gets expats in Los riled up more than the falling pound, and the freeze on UK government pension rates to those based in Thailand... A similar loss in purchasing power to the nurses right now. 

In simple terms, you get less for your money, and things cost more! 

So do you think £36,000 is poor pay, until we establish this we cannot progress any further with our debate. . 

We have started out in Chipping Sodbury and for some reason you have taken us to Hull.

[Faz]

I'll just add to this debate, the starting salary for a qualified nurse, starting on band 5, is £27,055 rising to £32,934 after 7+ years experience. They have spent at least 3 years at Uni to achieve the required qualification.

There are other professions regarded as nursing positions, such as, nursery assistants, healthcare assistants, emergency care assistants and theatre support workers that start on lower bands 1-4, with a band 1 salary of £20.270.
https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/

The nursing bands: https://www.medgen.co.uk/blog/2018/04/outlining-the-bands-in-nhs-roles?source=google.com

 

 

 

[TheDirtyDurian]

42 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

So do you think £36,000 is poor pay, until we establish this we cannot progress any further with our debate. . 

We have started out in Chipping Sodbury and for some reason you have taken us to Hull.

Yes, the way things are right now. For the reasons I've already given. Rising living costs, inflation etc etc

I gave you a breakdown of living costs these days. 

I gave you a link showing how nurses are worse off in real terms than ten years ago. 

Now your turn. Provide a link to nurses saying they're happy with their salary and that they have enough money. 

How much do you think people need to survive these days? Ballpark figure.

[Marble-eye]

3 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Yes, the way things are right now. For the reasons I've already given. Rising living costs, inflation etc etc

I gave you a breakdown of living costs these days. 

I gave you a link showing how nurses are worse off in real terms than ten years ago. 

Now your turn. Provide a link to nurses saying they're happy with their salary and that they have enough money. 

How much do you think people need to survive these days? Ballpark figure.

I gave you a breakdown of living costs these days.

You guesstimated what you considered to be their costings, worthless. I could equally invent some figures but what purpose will it serve.....none.

I gave you a link showing how nurses are worse off in real terms than ten years ago. 

You did but I'm still at ends to work out what it proves, I consider £36,000 a very decent wage, just because a nurse was getting such and such 10 years ago doesn't always follow that too wasn't a decent wage. 

Now your turn. Provide a link to nurses saying they're happy with their salary and that they have enough money. 

There are quite a few nurses commenting on their pay and most seem very happy with their lot. If anybody cannot manage on £36,000 a year they seriously need a crash course on how to budget, let's look after the needy and not the greedy. But in all fairness I think that asking a nurse or any other worker for that matter if they are getting paid enough and we all know what that answer would be. 

Most the how much I earn replies in this subject are just willy waving imo. The average person in the UK would be over the moon to earn 35k.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/jpcpli/comment/gbdydz4/

 

[TheDirtyDurian]

27 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

I gave you a breakdown of living costs these days.

You guesstimated what you considered to be their costings, worthless. I could equally invent some figures but what purpose will it serve.....none.

I gave you a link showing how nurses are worse off in real terms than ten years ago. 

You did but I'm still at ends to work out what it proves, I consider £36,000 a very decent wage, just because a nurse was getting such and such 10 years ago doesn't always follow that too wasn't a decent wage. 

Now your turn. Provide a link to nurses saying they're happy with their salary and that they have enough money. 

There are quite a few nurses commenting on their pay and most seem very happy with their lot. If anybody cannot manage on £36,000 a year they seriously need a crash course on how to budget, let's look after the needy and not the greedy. But in all fairness I think that asking a nurse or any other worker for that matter if they are getting paid enough and we all know what that answer would be. 

Most the how much I earn replies in this subject are just willy waving imo. The average person in the UK would be over the moon to earn 35k.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UKPersonalFinance/comments/jpcpli/comment/gbdydz4/

The figures I have are not meaningless, they're an estimation based on my knowledge of living in the UK. If you know better then show us. 

Nurses being worse off than they were ten years ago, proves exactly that. They're worse off. Do you understand the meaning of progress. If people are becoming progressively worse off, how can that be okay? ️️ 

And again, you're fixating on one particular figure. As myself and a previous poster showed, nurses and people working in nursing could be earning far less than 36k, as low as 20k, and it would take them a long time to get to your magical figure of 36k.

FYI, reddit threads aren't really proper sources of info. Any TDH can post whatever they like, but having said that, from the link you provided.... 

"I earn 35k. So some of the replies to posts like these make me feel just a little bit sick. BUT my wife earns the same as me. 

Seriously!?

Household income is 70k!!

 

[TheDirtyDurian]

https://leftfootforward.org/2023/02/poll-reveals-massive-majority-of-public-support-nurses-striking/#:~:text=YouGov polling found nurses had,grew to 66% by December.

And whatever you think seems like you're in the minority according to recent Savanta poll.