News Forum - Tesco slavery case – police interview 100s of Mae Sot workers

[Thaiger]

Police and labour officials in Mae Sot are interviewing more than 100 workers from the former supermarket supplier in the Tesco slavery case. Authorities are gathering information as they follow up last week’s raid led by deputy national police chief Gen Surachate “Big Joke” Hakparn at the VK Garment (VKG) factory in the border town in Tak province. The raid followed an investigation by The Guardian, which claimed that Burmese workers were victims of trafficking and slavery. The Guardian revealed earlier this week that Burmese workers who produced F&F jeans for Tesco Lotus, as it was at the time, were […]

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[JohninDublin]

I haven't heard of Tesco's response to this yet, but I don't doubt it will be something mealy mouthed expressing shock, horror and surprise to hear of this, telling the world that they have the highest ethical standards, and they will need to carry out their own investigations before they can comment any further.

If I were a journo at that presser, I would be saying, "We've heard this all before many times. Why does it keep  happening to Tesco, and what can be done to prevent it"?

In fairness to Tesco, they are not the only ones that have this problem, and over the years many big High St Brand names have been identified as having similar problems. But to give Tesco a pass on the basis of that is pure whataboutery, and the problem that this then presents, is that two wrongs don't make a right.

But I keep asking myself, how hard would it be for the multinationals that keep coming out on the wrong side of these stories to appoint their own full time inspectors from the locals? Levi Strauss, Gap and Nike produce goods that retail sometimes at $100+ Tesco are buying Jeans, T-shirts, Childrens Clothes by the tens of thousands. How difficult would it be for these multi-nationals to reduce their profits by a few cents per item, to pay for worker elected "welfare officers" in these sweat-shops?

I think if the truth were known, if they were to do so, the factory owners would say, "If you do this, we cannot produce these items at the price we currently do so". And therein lies the real problem; the profitability of these high st names. As long as Tesco et al, don't take action and continue with "business as usual", they can pretend to deny they are aware of any of these abuses. 

[Soidog]

16 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

I haven't heard of Tesco's response to this yet, but I don't doubt it will be something mealy mouthed expressing shock, horror and surprise to hear of this, telling the world that they have the highest ethical standards, and they will need to carry out their own investigations before they can comment any further.

If I were a journo at that presser, I would be saying, "We've heard this all before many times. Why does it keep  happening to Tesco, and what can be done to prevent it"?

In fairness to Tesco, they are not the only ones that have this problem, and over the years many big High St Brand names have been identified as having similar problems. But to give Tesco a pass on the basis of that is pure whataboutery, and the problem that this then presents, is that two wrongs don't make a right.

But I keep asking myself, how hard would it be for the multinationals that keep coming out on the wrong side of these stories to appoint their own full time inspectors from the locals? Levi Strauss, Gap and Nike produce goods that retail sometimes at $100+ Tesco are buying Jeans, T-shirts, Childrens Clothes by the tens of thousands. How difficult would it be for these multi-nationals to reduce their profits by a few cents per item, to pay for worker elected "welfare officers" in these sweat-shops?

I think if the truth were known, if they were to do so, the factory owners would say, "If you do this, we cannot produce these items at the price we currently do so". And therein lies the real problem; the profitability of these high st names. As long as Tesco et al, don't take action and continue with "business as usual", they can pretend to deny they are aware of any of these abuses. 

I have a lot of sympathy with your views and find myself agreeing with much of it. However, I do not accept that the board of directors at Tesco know of this and accept it in some carefully thought through profit and cost debate. I think the chain of command and the supply chain is long and complex.
 

Once you start to employ Labour outside of the country in which you are based, then you have a major potential problem. I’m sure Tesco management have all of the social and employment responsibility issues within contracts and local businesses will have agreed to it. Why should a U.K. business have to employ people based in a Thai factory to ensure Thai laws are adhered to? Why should they have to go to the expense of checking that employment laws are not being breached 6,000 miles away? What I do think, is that when such issues come to light, they should stop doing business in that country. This is a Thai problem. When Thailand buys products from the U.K., they don’t have to send Thai inspectors to the factory to check if it’s  using slave Labour. We need to call this out for what it is and not blame the customer, which in this case is Tesco. This is a Thai government problem to fix and the full focus needs to be on the Thai government. If these countries want to be part of the international community then start acting responsibly. By shining the light on Tesco it allows these cockroaches to scuttle away.  

[JohninDublin]

22 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I have a lot of sympathy with your views and find myself agreeing with much of it. However, I do not accept that the board of directors at Tesco know of this and accept it in some carefully thought through profit and cost debate. I think the chain of command and the supply chain is long and complex.
 

Once you start to employ Labour outside of the country in which you are based, then you have a major potential problem. I’m sure Tesco management have all of the social and employment responsibility issues within contracts and local businesses will have agreed to it. Why should a U.K. business have to employ people based in a Thai factory to ensure Thai laws are adhered to? Why should they have to go to the expense of checking that employment laws are not being breached 6,000 miles away? What I do think, is that when such issues come to light, they should stop doing business in that country. This is a Thai problem. When Thailand buys products from the U.K., they don’t have to send Thai inspectors to the factory to check if it’s  using slave Labour. We need to call this out for what it is and not blame the customer, which in this case is Tesco. This is a Thai government problem to fix and the full focus needs to be on the Thai government. If these countries want to be part of the international community then start acting responsibly. By shining the light on Tesco it allows these cockroaches to scuttle away.  

Thanks for your reply, but with the greatest of respect, we live in an age where the concept of corporate responsibiity is the man at the top is ultimately held to account. That does not mean that they have to fall on their sword, but it does mean that they have to take steps to ensure when a problem is detected, to ensure it does not happen again. And that is the real problm: this is not the first case, and I would bet with Tesco, they are now well into double figures of such cases. If they can't fix the problem, then they need to make way for someone who can, or just cancel the contracts.

They cannot keep rolling out the same crocdile tears excuses every time this comes back to bite them. In Thailand, Tesco have a substantial  infrastructure, employing over 50k. Why can't they employ maybe another 50-100 full time employees as observers in these factories? In 2020, Lotus contributed £426 Mill to Tesco's profits. 100 additional employees at £100 per week, which is a fabulous wage for TH, would impact Lotus's profits by 0.12%. How about mandating that all factories have notices offering a confidential hotline to report abuses, not to Tesco, but to a central collating office? The fact that they will be aware that this will inevitably lead to them being investigated should, be sufficient incentive for them to take steps to prevent further occurrences. Why is it that Tesco who are on the ground in TH, only ever "find out" by reports in the British Media? And if the problem is to do with middle-managers at Lotus, sack them.

 

[Soidog]

34 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

Thanks for your reply, but with the greatest of respect, we live in an age where the concept of corporate responsibiity is the man at the top is ultimately held to account. That does not mean that they have to fall on their sword, but it does mean that they have to take steps to ensure when a problem is detected, to ensure it does not happen again. And that is the real problm: this is not the first case, and I would bet with Tesco, they are now well into double figures of such cases. If they can't fix the problem, then they need to make way for someone who can, or just cancel the contracts.

They cannot keep rolling out the same crocdile tears excuses every time this comes back to bite them. In Thailand, Tesco have a substantial  infrastructure, employing over 50k. Why can't they employ maybe another 50-100 full time employees as observers in these factories? In 2020, Lotus contributed £426 Mill to Tesco's profits. 100 additional employees at £100 per week, which is a fabulous wage for TH, would impact Lotus's profits by 0.12%. How about mandating that all factories have notices offering a confidential hotline to report abuses, not to Tesco, but to a central collating office? The fact that they will be aware that this will inevitably lead to them being investigated should, be sufficient incentive for them to take steps to prevent further occurrences. Why is it that Tesco who are on the ground in TH, only ever "find out" by reports in the British Media? And if the problem is to do with middle-managers at Lotus, sack them.

Again, I agree with much you have said. But why do Tesco need to set up a help line for employees working in a Thai factory to call?  That factory is most likely supplying shops in many countries. Why don’t the Thai authorities do this and start to take responsibility for what goes on in their country? Why is it always western countries that need to do these things?

Im sure the senior managers at Tesco are as appalled at what has gone on in this case far more than what the Thai government are. how much profit to Thai companies make paying 340 baht a day to even Thai workers?
 

I get sick and tired of fingers always being pointed to developed countries while at the same time these backward societies make money and turn a blind eye to it. What about the many Thais that would work in this same factory. Why didn’t one of them call the local police to complain to the abuse? Where are the random checks in these factories by the Thai authorities? 
 

I’ve got a better idea. Why don’t the U.K. look after U.K. factories and let other countries look after their own. These countries want foreigners to mind their own business and keep out of their politics and affairs. Soon as anything goes wrong, people want foreigners to take the blame and take the lead. It’s ridiculous to expect western companies to act as local police.  
 

If there is evidence to prove managers at Tesco knew about the abuse then I’m sure the U.K. authorities will take appropriate action and fine or imprison them. Far more than will happen to the factory owner in Thailand. 

[Soidog]

I would also add @JohninDublin  now Lotus is back in 100% Thai ownership rather than at least 51% as it was when these problems occurred, let’s see how the new Thai owners go about this. Problem is, there isn’t any investigative journalism in Thailand. This abuse will go on each and every day and nothing will be reported. Focus on the countries that have this systemic problem and have thousands of such incidents. Stop worrying too much about the ones and twos that occur involving western companies. 

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Again, I agree with much you have said. But why do Tesco need to set up a help line for employees working in a Thai factory to call?  That factory is most likely supplying shops in many countries. Why don’t the Thai authorities do this and start to take responsibility for what goes on in their country? Why is it always western countries that need to do these things?

Im sure the senior managers at Tesco are as appalled at what has gone on in this case far more than what the Thai government are. how much profit to Thai companies make paying 340 baht a day to even Thai workers?
 

I get sick and tired of fingers always being pointed to developed countries while at the same time these backward societies make money and turn a blind eye to it. What about the many Thais that would work in this same factory. Why didn’t one of them call the local police to complain to the abuse? Where are the random checks in these factories by the Thai authorities? 
 

I’ve got a better idea. Why don’t the U.K. look after U.K. factories and let other countries look after their own. These countries want foreigners to mind their own business and keep out of their politics and affairs. Soon as anything goes wrong, people want foreigners to take the blame and take the lead. It’s ridiculous to expect western companies to act as local police.  
 

If there is evidence to prove managers at Tesco knew about the abuse then I’m sure the U.K. authorities will take appropriate action and fine or imprison them. Far more than will happen to the factory owner in Thailand. 

I'm not really sure to make of your post? I am not sure that you understand my particular concerns?

I don't say that Tesco's should set up a helpline. I say that there should be posters in ALL factories to advise the workers of this. It follows that this is not something that falls to the foreign businesses, but to the TH gov to do. I hope that has dealt with that particular aspect of that question?

I am not so sure that the Senior Managers are appalled at these stories. If they were, they would be taking active steps to prevent repetitions. All that Tesco's seems to do, is to terminate the contracts, and this only happens after the story gets into the media. As an analogy, what would happen if a bar was repeatedly employing children and serving alcohol to them. How many times do you think that the local police chief could say he was shocked to hear this, before someone says, "This is the nth time this has happened on your watch. Why is that? What have you done to prevent this"? I will believe that Tesco is concerned when I hear that they discovered this themselves, not through the media, and took action. And I wouldn't necessarily need to see the factory closed either. I'd be happy if they were obliged to pay all their victims the wages they are usually swindled out of. And if it turns out that they can't do this because they pitched the price of the job so low as to eliminate legitimate competition, then that's their problem.

As for the idea that these workers can trust the Th Police, do you really think so? I'd be inclined to worry that if I complain to the cops, the primary interest of the cop, is whether he'd be averse to getting a brown envelope from my employer?

Then of course there is the morality of the situation. Do I really want to be buying product that is made by slave, exploited or child labour? It is this exposure that Tesco fears the most. They know that there are plenty of their customers who take a dim view of this. I don't think that it is the role of Tesco etc, to reform SEA sweatshops, but while  they and the others continue to buy from these sources using these practices, they are enabling these malpractices to continue. 

And nobody is asking the UK to interfere in TH. It is also relevant that regardless of what Tesco did or did not know, no crimes were committedin the UK or against UK citizens, so there is no chance of them facing criminal sanctions in the UK. However, if you read The Guardian report linked to the story, you will see that Tesco's are being sued under the principle of vicarious liability in the English Courts by the victims in this latest case. I don't know if the complainants will win their case, but I am pretty sure that Tesco will not want to have to answer questions in an English court as to why they are repeatedly linked to so many cases? My guess is that will settle out of court rather than risk the bad PR if the case is allowed to go to trial. But here's the interesting point. If they lose the case, then that would probably allow others to sue Nike, etc as long as they have a financial footprint in the UK. Maybe we will see some action at last. Maybe the courts will take the view that it really is not good enough to keep repeatedly proclaiming, "We are shocked. We didn't know". 

[Soidog]

37 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

I'm not really sure to make of your post? I am not sure that you understand my particular concerns?

I don't say that Tesco's should set up a helpline. I say that there should be posters in ALL factories to advise the workers of this. It follows that this is not something that falls to the foreign businesses, but to the TH gov to do. I hope that has dealt with that particular aspect of that question?

I am not so sure that the Senior Managers are appalled at these stories. If they were, they would be taking active steps to prevent repetitions. All that Tesco's seems to do, is to terminate the contracts, and this only happens after the story gets into the media. As an analogy, what would happen if a bar was repeatedly employing children and serving alcohol to them. How many times do you think that the local police chief could say he was shocked to hear this, before someone says, "This is the nth time this has happened on your watch. Why is that? What have you done to prevent this"? I will believe that Tesco is concerned when I hear that they discovered this themselves, not through the media, and took action. And I wouldn't necessarily need to see the factory closed either. I'd be happy if they were obliged to pay all their victims the wages they are usually swindled out of. And if it turns out that they can't do this because they pitched the price of the job so low as to eliminate legitimate competition, then that's their problem.

As for the idea that these workers can trust the Th Police, do you really think so? I'd be inclined to worry that if I complain to the cops, the primary interest of the cop, is whether he'd be averse to getting a brown envelope from my employer?

Then of course there is the morality of the situation. Do I really want to be buying product that is made by slave, exploited or child labour? It is this exposure that Tesco fears the most. They know that there are plenty of their customers who take a dim view of this. I don't think that it is the role of Tesco etc, to reform SEA sweatshops, but while  they and the others continue to buy from these sources using these practices, they are enabling these malpractices to continue. 

And nobody is asking the UK to interfere in TH. It is also relevant that regardless of what Tesco did or did not know, no crimes were committedin the UK or against UK citizens, so there is no chance of them facing criminal sanctions in the UK. However, if you read The Guardian report linked to the story, you will see that Tesco's are being sued under the principle of vicarious liability in the English Courts by the victims in this latest case. I don't know if the complainants will win their case, but I am pretty sure that Tesco will not want to have to answer questions in an English court as to why they are repeatedly linked to so many cases? My guess is that will settle out of court rather than risk the bad PR if the case is allowed to go to trial. But here's the interesting point. If they lose the case, then that would probably allow others to sue Nike, etc as long as they have a financial footprint in the UK. Maybe we will see some action at last. Maybe the courts will take the view that it really is not good enough to keep repeatedly proclaiming, "We are shocked. We didn't know". 

And once again, I don’t disagree with all you’ve said. However, just as you claimed I have missed your point, I think you have also missed mine and so I’ll try again to explain. 
 

I don’t wish any U.K. business to engage in slavery or sweat shops. I want to be able to buy things knowing they were made by people getting a fair wage and in decent conditions. But fair wages and decent conditions are the norm in the U.K.  they are not so normal in Thailand. This story or case, needs to be shaming the Thai authorities as much, if not more than Tesco. Tesco have thousands of items from hundreds if not thousands of suppliers. For the Guardian (who dislike big business) to find one such product and then claim this is some major Tesco issue is simply allowing the real perpetrators of these crimes to go unnoticed and unpunished. I am not seeing the same outcry towards the Thai authorities as I am towards Tesco. The Thais need to sort out their mess. Companies like Tesco should be able to sign contracts with Thai businesses and be confident of workers conditions. It is not for Tesco to police what goes on in Thailand. 
 

The points you raise about them not contacting Thai police is of course correct. The corruption taking place in Thailand is off the scale. This again is where the focus should be, not on Tesco U.K.  their role is relatively minor and without knowledge. They may well have inspected this factory and it was all stage managed. Thai authorities would have tipped off the Thai owner and on the day of inspection all looked fine. We simply don’t know. 

Im sure if the Guardian investigated Marks & Spencer, Sainsbury’s or just about any other store who does business with Thailand, they would find similar issues. This won’t get sorted by blaming the customer. It gets fixed by calling out the Thai authorities and naming and shaming them internationally. Start by putting these stories front and centre of tourism advertisements. It amazes me how many people cry foul on such issues as human rights, only to then brag about their holidays to Dubai or Thailand. Hit them where it hurts. In their greedy selfish corrupt pockets.  
 

Show me, that the world and the Guardian is serious about the corrupt Thais and then I’ll have some time to question Tesco. Until they do,  then I’m not interested.