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High up in the Himalayas, two Thai women met their demise while hiking in the extreme cold. The two woman, aged 49 and 37, were part of a group hiking the famous Annapurna trail in Nepal when they fell ill and died. They were reported dead after descending to a base camp to the northwest of the Nepalese capital city of Kathmandu. The pair of Thai women began their trek at the base of the Annapurna trail on November 11. They hiked up the Himalayas and on Thursday reached the world’s highest lake. Lake Tilicho sits at an altitude of […]

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This makes no sense to me.

-6 degC to -9 degC with light winds and they die of hypothermia while part of a group?

Those conditions are not that bad and if they were in difficulty what was the rest of the group doing about it?

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57 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

This makes no sense to me.

-6 degC to -9 degC with light winds and they die of hypothermia while part of a group?

Those conditions are not that bad and if they were in difficulty what was the rest of the group doing about it?

I went the Everest way and to the city of Namche Bazarr then going a bit further up and out on from there. It is not just a walk in the park for everyone, especially if living in a tropical climate and sea level all one's life. Sometime it is not only the actual cold, but the wind that cuts right through you. 5000 meters if went too fast can also cause altitude sickness. Let's wait for the autopsy as doesn't sound about just one thing.

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44 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

This makes no sense to me.

-6 degC to -9 degC with light winds and they die of hypothermia while part of a group?

Those conditions are not that bad and if they were in difficulty what was the rest of the group doing about it?

The article doesn't state whether it was hypothermia or altitude sickness - altitude sickness is more likely. I did the full Anapurna circuit about twenty tears ago, and there was a more or less mandatory stop of two days at Manang (3,500m) to acclimatise before heading on up over the Thorong La pass at 5,400m.

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8 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

I went the Everest way and to the city of Namche Bazarr then going a bit further up and out on from there. It is not just a walk in the park for everyone, especially if living in a tropical climate and sea level all one's life. Sometime it is not only the actual cold, but the wind that cuts right through you. 5000 meters if went too fast can also cause altitude sickness. Let's wait for the autopsy as doesn't sound about just one thing.

I get that HCC but while part of a group none of that should have been allowed to cause a single persons death never mind two. Were the guides not carrying oxygen in case of hypoxia? Surely there was some at the base camp where they actually managed to get themselves to?

As for cold and wind chill. Yes these are massive factors regarding core body temperature but -9 degC with light winds? And Again they presumably had shelter at the base camp.

Sounds to me like these two ladies were not in fact looked after and given their limited exposure to cold climates and altitude someone SHOULD have been looking after them.

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18 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

The article doesn't state whether it was hypothermia or altitude sickness - altitude sickness is more likely. I did the full Anapurna circuit about twenty tears ago, and there was a more or less mandatory stop of two days at Manang (3,500m) to acclimatise before heading on up over the Thorong La pass at 5,400m.

Both hypothermia and hypoxia are very easy conditions to diagnose by anyone with even limited experience of hill walking or mountaineering. These two ladies are part of a 22 person group and end up dying from one or both conditions?

Something is off here mate.

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In early October of 2016, myself and eight other men, all over 60 trekked to the mount Everest Base Camp from Katmandu.  I personally trained for 4-5 days a week at the gym for four months to prepare for this trek.

It was 8 grueling days of slow climbing and walking, the last four days all over 15,000 feet.  We had porters, sherpas and Yaks for support.  We all had various medications for High Altitude Sickness, Pulmonary Edema and Cerebral Edema.  Our highest altitude was just under 18,000 feet.  This was the best shape I had been in since in my 20's, and as each day progressed, it became slower and more difficult.  Hypothermia was constant at night in our tents.  We ate high calorie food, 5,000 calories a day and I still lost weight. 

I share these few details because I did not think I would make it to ECB.  Half our party made it halfway. The other half had to set camp and wait our return.  Of those that made it to EBC, one went into convulsions from Cerebral Edema and was carries down on a stretcher to be helicoptered to Katmandu.  That individual suffers permanent brain damage today.  One of our sherpas scratched his face and it became infected.  He was hospitalized with sepsis and died two weeks later in a hospital in Katmandu.

My point is anyone who underestimates trekking in the Himalayas, or any other high-altitude trekking or climbs should truly understand the risks.  I would not attempt it again.  It was an amazing experience and I have the bragging rights, but that is it.  The risks are extreme, and I am no stranger to risks.  I've sailed across the Atlantic in a 47-foot boot and fought in one war.  Putting those experiences in comparison to these high-altitude treks now pale, especially to the risks in the Himalayas.   I guess my point is simply that two women died is sad, unavoidable and two of the many, most unreported that occur every year.  The beauty you experienced and the challenged you will carry to the next world. The experience before your death I hope was amazing. RIP.

EBC.jpg

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4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

I get that HCC but while part of a group none of that should have been allowed to cause a single persons death never mind two. Were the guides not carrying oxygen in case of hypoxia? Surely there was some at the base camp where they actually managed to get themselves to?

As for cold and wind chill. Yes these are massive factors regarding core body temperature but -9 degC with light winds? And Again they presumably had shelter at the base camp.

Sounds to me like these two ladies were not in fact looked after and given their limited exposure to cold climates and altitude someone SHOULD have been looking after them.

Hi Rookiescot,

Check my post just a few minutes ago.  It has some information.  To your question about oxygen?  The answer is no.  Most groups do not carry supplemental oxygen.  They are supposed to do acclimation stops.   The size of the party was too large, in my opinion.  Our party was nine total.  Our lead Sherpa was clear from the outset.  His opening statement was, "You respect the mountain, the mountain always wins.  Look after each other.  You will turn inward and focus only on your own steps.  Try to look to see you friends.  We cannot watch out for you all.  Train your mind to know when to turn back.  If you wait, it is too late.  You will suffer or die".

That is the truth of our first encounter with our lead Sherpa.  The question about camps?  Even the wooden lodges are thin walled, and you sleep in your sleeping bag, else you will freeze.  There is no heat.  We slept in tents.  The cold was brutal at night.  What most don't understand is the prolonged exposure and its effects.  It wears you down.  Your thinking becomes cloudy.  Your body loses heat, your brain oxygen.  The training required to attempt even a lower altitude trek is necessary.  Younger people have the most injuries, mostly because they do CrossFit or high intensity training.  You need weeks of slow training on a Stairmaster and other cardio and weights.  You have to be able to last 8-10 hours a day climbing, walking and struggling over often treacherous terrain.  

Many people don't understand these rules, and those from lower home altitudes suffer the most.  It takes time for the blood to adjust to the lessor oxygen if you are a low elevation dweller.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Jack

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9 hours ago, SkyDogJack said:

In early October of 2016, myself and eight other men, all over 60 trekked to the mount Everest Base Camp from Katmandu.  I personally trained for 4-5 days a week at the gym for four months to prepare for this trek.

It was 8 grueling days of slow climbing and walking, the last four days all over 15,000 feet.  We had porters, sherpas and Yaks for support.  We all had various medications for High Altitude Sickness, Pulmonary Edema and Cerebral Edema.  Our highest altitude was just under 18,000 feet.  This was the best shape I had been in since in my 20's, and as each day progressed, it became slower and more difficult.  Hypothermia was constant at night in our tents.  We ate high calorie food, 5,000 calories a day and I still lost weight. 

I share these few details because I did not think I would make it to ECB.  Half our party made it halfway. The other half had to set camp and wait our return.  Of those that made it to EBC, one went into convulsions from Cerebral Edema and was carries down on a stretcher to be helicoptered to Katmandu.  That individual suffers permanent brain damage today.  One of our sherpas scratched his face and it became infected.  He was hospitalized with sepsis and died two weeks later in a hospital in Katmandu.

My point is anyone who underestimates trekking in the Himalayas, or any other high-altitude trekking or climbs should truly understand the risks.  I would not attempt it again.  It was an amazing experience and I have the bragging rights, but that is it.  The risks are extreme, and I am no stranger to risks.  I've sailed across the Atlantic in a 47-foot boot and fought in one war.  Putting those experiences in comparison to these high-altitude treks now pale, especially to the risks in the Himalayas.   I guess my point is simply that two women died is sad, unavoidable and two of the many, most unreported that occur every year.  The beauty you experienced and the challenged you will carry to the next world. The experience before your death I hope was amazing. RIP.

EBC.jpg

Very Cool. I only ventrured up a little bit nmore from Namche. But reality was I flew into Lukla and hiked day by day to get aclimated and still got a tiny bit of altitude sickness after Namche because I ran up a hill that took 2 minutes to do so. Dangersou stuff up there. I too got fit for months just to do it. And that was after being rerally in good shape already, but from San Francisco sea level.

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8 hours ago, SkyDogJack said:

Hi Rookiescot,

Check my post just a few minutes ago.  It has some information.  To your question about oxygen?  The answer is no.  Most groups do not carry supplemental oxygen.  They are supposed to do acclimation stops.   The size of the party was too large, in my opinion.  Our party was nine total.  Our lead Sherpa was clear from the outset.  His opening statement was, "You respect the mountain, the mountain always wins.  Look after each other.  You will turn inward and focus only on your own steps.  Try to look to see you friends.  We cannot watch out for you all.  Train your mind to know when to turn back.  If you wait, it is too late.  You will suffer or die".

That is the truth of our first encounter with our lead Sherpa.  The question about camps?  Even the wooden lodges are thin walled, and you sleep in your sleeping bag, else you will freeze.  There is no heat.  We slept in tents.  The cold was brutal at night.  What most don't understand is the prolonged exposure and its effects.  It wears you down.  Your thinking becomes cloudy.  Your body loses heat, your brain oxygen.  The training required to attempt even a lower altitude trek is necessary.  Younger people have the most injuries, mostly because they do CrossFit or high intensity training.  You need weeks of slow training on a Stairmaster and other cardio and weights.  You have to be able to last 8-10 hours a day climbing, walking and struggling over often treacherous terrain.  

Many people don't understand these rules, and those from lower home altitudes suffer the most.  It takes time for the blood to adjust to the lessor oxygen if you are a low elevation dweller.

I hope this helps answer your question.

Jack

You got that right. I did not take a shower for a week until Namche, and only becasue grime and stinky sucks. Namche was even way too bitter cold for me in the native guest house, and that was semi protected. But we are talkin over 30 or so years ago when i did that. I too did stair master and cardio back then.

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9 hours ago, SkyDogJack said:

In early October of 2016, myself and eight other men, all over 60 trekked to the mount Everest Base Camp from Katmandu.  I personally trained for 4-5 days a week at the gym for four months to prepare for this trek.

It was 8 grueling days of slow climbing and walking, the last four days all over 15,000 feet.  We had porters, sherpas and Yaks for support.  We all had various medications for High Altitude Sickness, Pulmonary Edema and Cerebral Edema.  Our highest altitude was just under 18,000 feet.  This was the best shape I had been in since in my 20's, and as each day progressed, it became slower and more difficult.  Hypothermia was constant at night in our tents.  We ate high calorie food, 5,000 calories a day and I still lost weight. 

I share these few details because I did not think I would make it to ECB.  Half our party made it halfway. The other half had to set camp and wait our return.  Of those that made it to EBC, one went into convulsions from Cerebral Edema and was carries down on a stretcher to be helicoptered to Katmandu.  That individual suffers permanent brain damage today.  One of our sherpas scratched his face and it became infected.  He was hospitalized with sepsis and died two weeks later in a hospital in Katmandu.

My point is anyone who underestimates trekking in the Himalayas, or any other high-altitude trekking or climbs should truly understand the risks.  I would not attempt it again.  It was an amazing experience and I have the bragging rights, but that is it.  The risks are extreme, and I am no stranger to risks.  I've sailed across the Atlantic in a 47-foot boot and fought in one war.  Putting those experiences in comparison to these high-altitude treks now pale, especially to the risks in the Himalayas.   I guess my point is simply that two women died is sad, unavoidable and two of the many, most unreported that occur every year.  The beauty you experienced and the challenged you will carry to the next world. The experience before your death I hope was amazing. RIP.

EBC.jpg

I did the Anapurna circuit in my mid-forties, now in my late sixties there is no way that I could do it again (although the day I went over the highest pass on the trek there was a French guy in his mid-seventies that took it like it was afternoon stroll), but I remember how grueling it is was back then- "I have taken one step forward, now I am going to have a little rest to catch my breath and take another step forward" 

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9 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

I did the Anapurna circuit in my mid-forties, now in my late sixties there is no way that I could do it again (although the day I went over the highest pass on the trek there was a French guy in his mid-seventies that took it like it was afternoon stroll), but I remember how grueling it is was back then- "I have taken one step forward, now I am going to have a little rest to catch my breath and take another step forward" 

Hi Grumpish,

Yea, I remember those guys in their 70's too.  I turn 70 next month and can't imagine doing the EBC trek again.  BTW.  When we were there in 2016 there was this guy in his late 20's trekking alone, always one day ahead of us.  He was drunk every time we crossed paths.  It was crazy.  We would get to the next lodge to stop for food, and he would have been there just before us, clearing out all the beers they had.  There is no way I'd drink and trek at that altitude, but this dude did it drunk the whole way.  I never heard what happened to him, but he said he was on his way next to K2!  OMG! Well, I hope he made it.  Amazing.

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I'm happiest sailing across an ocean or climbing an island hill for the view but I couldn't handle the cold of Everest.  Much better to look down on it from a warm airplane at 39,000 ft. 

Hats off to the true mountaineers who enjoy the punishing climbs and SDJ too, as youth and fitness are paramount under those harsh conditions.

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29 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

I'm happiest sailing across an ocean or climbing an island hill for the view but I couldn't handle the cold of Everest.  Much better to look down on it from a warm airplane at 39,000 ft. 

Hats off to the true mountaineers who enjoy the punishing climbs and SDJ too, as youth and fitness are paramount under those harsh conditions.

The experience is why we we all do it - from watching the dust trails of a cheetah chasing down an antelope in Kenya, a sunset view of the mountains in Laos that even silenced the locals, to teasing out an octopus on dive in the Similans where the visibility was so good that it was like diving in air.

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1 hour ago, KaptainRob said:

I'm happiest sailing across an ocean or climbing an island hill for the view but I couldn't handle the cold of Everest.  Much better to look down on it from a warm airplane at 39,000 ft. 

Hats off to the true mountaineers who enjoy the punishing climbs and SDJ too, as youth and fitness are paramount under those harsh conditions.

Not a fan of sailing the ocean so you got me there. But for me, just wanted to see Katmandu, do the Lukla flight into the mountain side, long long hike to go see Mount Everest with my own eyes. I wouldn’t mind doing it again with my son, but times have changed in the 30 years since I have been there. Sometimes seeing change isn’t a good thing, but to see the excitement with my son and be with him would be pretty cool. So even in my later 50’s near 60-ish, I guess I would be game to do it again. BTW. After seeing Everest and then walking down to a point to get a bus and then taking the bus was not for the weak either. That bus ride was whack. But I bet you have your swell sea stories I wouldn’t want to touch . 

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34 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

The experience is why we we all do it - from watching the dust trails of a cheetah chasing down an antelope in Kenya, a sunset view of the mountains in Laos that even silenced the locals, to teasing out an octopus on dive in the Similans where the visibility was so good that it was like diving in air.

Something fun to do I reckon. 

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