News Forum - THAI Airways makes resurgence with addition of nine more aeroplanes next year

[Thaiger]

THAI Airways International Plc (THAI), is making a resurgence after it says 60% of its pre-pandemic fleet has resumed service. The company says nine more aeroplanes will be in service next year as the country’s flag carrier says an increase in travel has helped the ailing carrier. Thai Smile Airways, a subsidiary of THAI has also made a resurgence as it has seen more than 90% of its fleet return to the air after domestic flights have increased in demand. According to Bangkok Post, THAI’s chief commercial officer says the company is looking to expand its reach into the Asia […]

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[Soidog]

Well all they have to do now is stop messing about with their schedules and making changes (retiming) as late as 5 hours before departure. Stop blaming the late departure of flights on the late arrival of the inbound aircraft and remind the cabin crew that they aren’t super models and they are there to serve customers. 
 

@Pinetree, I think you said you flew aircraft for a living. Can you explain why airlines think that blaming the late arrival of the inbound aircraft (their aircraft that was late) is an acceptable explanation for late departures? Did the inbound plane get lost? Did it have a fly around and turn up late? Did it land at another airfield to refuel? Or was it just poor planning? To me, it’s like telling a restaurant customer who ordered a meal “Sorry your meal is an hour late but the chef came in late”. It’s still the fault of the restaurant management and doesn’t excuse them of any culpability. But airlines seem to use it as an excuse as if it were an act of god !! Perhaps I could use a similar style excuse in my line of work. Sorry your business internet failed, this was due to the breaking of the internet connection to your building….No further questions please! 

[Grumpish]

That should free up some space in the long term Thai Airways aircraft parking lot, sorry Suvarnabhumi Airport.

[Pinetree]

13 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Well all they have to do now is stop messing about with their schedules and making changes (retiming) as late as 5 hours before departure. Stop blaming the late departure of flights on the late arrival of the inbound aircraft and remind the cabin crew that they aren’t super models and they are there to serve customers. 
 

@Pinetree, I think you said you flew aircraft for a living. Can you explain why airlines think that blaming the late arrival of the inbound aircraft (their aircraft that was late) is an acceptable explanation for late departures? Did the inbound plane get lost? Did it have a fly around and turn up late? Did it land at another airfield to refuel? Or was it just poor planning? To me, it’s like telling a restaurant customer who ordered a meal “Sorry your meal is an hour late but the chef came in late”. It’s still the fault of the restaurant management and doesn’t excuse them of any culpability. But airlines seem to use it as an excuse as if it were an act of god !! Perhaps I could use a similar style excuse in my line of work. Sorry your business internet failed, this was due to the breaking of the internet connection to your building….No further questions please! 

There are a myriad of reasons why an inbound aircraft that you are about to board to go outboard, can be late. Flights themselves in this day and age, can be navigated and timed to the minute.  However,  its not at all unusual for air traffic to delay flights due to airspace/airport congestion, the London and New York areas are famed for their congestion, resulting in delays and despite changes in the international use of airspace, this can and will only get worse.  My own airline experience of long haul routes is that it introduces much more flexibility in timing, as the aircraft is on the ground for longer, sometimes as much as 4/5 hours, so delayed departures due to inbound delays are minimized.   Short haul, low cost operators, holiday flights want circa 30 minute turn arounds or less,  to maximize  aircraft utilization, so their exposure to mounting delays is high, as the day wears on, especially on  so called 'W' Pattern flights, where an aircraft leaves airport A for Airport B but then returns to Airport C and then to Airport D, then back to A.  This is the normal pattern of European holiday flights and there is no fat in the timings and any slight delays get magnified as each flight progresses.  Technical, engineering reasons for flight delays are relatively rare.  Smaller airlines tend to suffer more as they dont have any spare aircraft to take up any slack in the programme of flights.   Hope this helps? 

[Soidog]

16 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

There are a myriad of reasons why an inbound aircraft that you are about to board to go outboard, can be late. Flights themselves in this day and age, can be navigated and timed to the minute.  However,  its not at all unusual for air traffic to delay flights due to airspace/airport congestion, the London and New York areas are famed for their congestion, resulting in delays and despite changes in the international use of airspace, this can and will only get worse.  My own airline experience of long haul routes is that it introduces much more flexibility in timing, as the aircraft is on the ground for longer, sometimes as much as 4/5 hours, so delayed departures due to inbound delays are minimized.   Short haul, low cost operators, holiday flights want circa 30 minute turn arounds or less,  to maximize  aircraft utilization, so their exposure to mounting delays is high, as the day wears on, especially on  so called 'W' Pattern flights, where an aircraft leaves airport A for Airport B but then returns to Airport C and then to Airport D, then back to A.  This is the normal pattern of European holiday flights and there is no fat in the timings and any slight delays get magnified as each flight progresses.  Technical, engineering reasons for flight delays are relatively rare.  Smaller airlines tend to suffer more as they dont have any spare aircraft to take up any slack in the programme of flights.   Hope this helps? 

Thanks for taking the time. Yes that’s really interesting and makes a lot of sense as you say for the short haul.
 

The main point of my question though is why airlines use the late arrival as an excuse for the late departure. Why can’t they say, for example, that the late arrival was due to air traffic congestion. Or late arrival was due to late loading of fuel on the inbound leg. It just gives me the impression that airline management seem helpless or indeed ambivalent to the delays and the impact this can have on people. Many short haul flights are used in order to connect to expensive and once a day international flights. Miss your international connection with another airline and no one seems accountable. 
 

I guess overall what I’m saying, is that airlines and airline/airport operations seem to care little about the impact such delays have on the travelling public. I feel at some point there will be a paradigm shift which will change the way the whole industry operates. I sincerely hope so

Thanks again

[Havana]

2 hours ago, Grumpish said:

That should free up some space in the long term Thai Airways aircraft parking lot, sorry Suvarnabhumi Airport.

I think you are being kind referring to it as a parking lot. It looks more like a graveyard for moribund or dead Thai planes.

[Soidog]

Thai airways needs to go out of business and start again. There just isn’t the right amount of quality management available to Thai to turn it around. It will be a drain on government money for decades to come. Fully privatise it or let it go out of business. It’s a basket case of an airline now. A dinosaur that’s had its day. 

[Fanta]

10 hours ago, Soidog said:

The main point of my question though is why airlines use the late arrival as an excuse for the late departure.

Because it is an excuse/reason which neatly transfers the blame to something out of the departure teams control - “Not my fault and I cannot explain why the incoming plane was late because I do outgoings not incoming.” 

[Soidog]

30 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Because it is an excuse/reason which neatly transfers the blame to something out of the departure teams control - “Not my fault and I cannot explain why the incoming plane was late because I do outgoings not incoming.” 

Well that’s exactly right isn’t it and my point. The delay in no way explains and certainly doesn’t excuse the airline. I think it may help airlines (or hinder them) if they gave the real reason. The travelling public, or what airlines sarcastically call their “valued customers” have no idea if the nightmare of air travel is due to the airlines, the airports or air traffic control. I wonder if overall anyone is pulling these three elements to account and understanding root cause to the problems?

It’s about time laws were passed which means delay caused by operational issues such as late arrival of staff, or delays in getting a push back from a gate as no tow was arranged, result in partial refunds to customers, then nothing is going to change. Of course airlines and operators will always look to play the safety card, but air travel is becoming utter madness.
 

A simple 1 hour flight essentially translates in to 4 or 5 hours travel due to having to arrive at the airport 2 hours before your flight. A possible delay of an hour. The flight itself and then walking a mile to get your bag which arrives 15 mins later. It feels no one is in control of this ever increasing problem. 
 

It’s 21 years ago since Richard Reed tried to blow up a transatlantic flight using a bomb concealed in his shoe. We are still having to take our shoes off at security check. We have our carry on bags diverted because it contains a bottle of water which could be a suspected chemical or explosive and yet it’s then placed in an open bin a couple of feet from where hundreds of people are. So much of it is outdated or illogical and yet no one seems to be doing anything about it. Just more and more layers of delays. Time for a rethink me thinks…. 

[Pinetree]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Well that’s exactly right isn’t it and my point. The delay in no way explains and certainly doesn’t excuse the airline. I think it may help airlines (or hinder them) if they gave the real reason. The travelling public, or what airlines sarcastically call their “valued customers” have no idea if the nightmare of air travel is due to the airlines, the airports or air traffic control. I wonder if overall anyone is pulling these three elements to account and understanding root cause to the problems?

It’s about time laws were passed which means delay caused by operational issues such as late arrival of staff, or delays in getting a push back from a gate as no tow was arranged, result in partial refunds to customers, then nothing is going to change. Of course airlines and operators will always look to play the safety card, but air travel is becoming utter madness.
 

A simple 1 hour flight essentially translates in to 4 or 5 hours travel due to having to arrive at the airport 2 hours before your flight. A possible delay of an hour. The flight itself and then walking a mile to get your bag which arrives 15 mins later. It feels no one is in control of this ever increasing problem. 
 

It’s 21 years ago since Richard Reed tried to blow up a transatlantic flight using a bomb concealed in his shoe. We are still having to take our shoes off at security check. We have our carry on bags diverted because it contains a bottle of water which could be a suspected chemical or explosive and yet it’s then placed in an open bin a couple of feet from where hundreds of people are. So much of it is outdated or illogical and yet no one seems to be doing anything about it. Just more and more layers of delays. Time for a rethink me thinks…. 

In the case of my airline, say at BKK. we always tried to get the PAX to the departure gate on time, even if the aircraft was going to be late leaving the gate. This put the Pax in the control of the airline, and to an extent the aircraft crew, rather than the ground handlers, who may not be direct airline employees  Another good reason to do this is that it sucked up the idiots still meandering about in duty free so that they wouldnt cause a further delay and also to give the Pax the actual reason for any delay, rather than someone else guessing.  If they are at the gate and can see catering, fuel and bags still being loaded a bit late, they tend to be more understanding. Of course, this is for long haul at bigger airports.  Its not always possible to control the situation at the smaller ones. Pax also realise that on LH flights we could make up time so that scheduled arrival times at the destination were met, even with a delayed departure. If it is air traffic slot delay, the Captain will invariably board the Pax then explain any ATC delay.  This is so a revised slot time can be met quickly as soon as it is issued.