News Forum - Thailand pushes digital payments, rejects US dollar in move towards cashless society

[Marc26]

On 11/16/2022 at 6:04 AM, Soidog said:

With a Thai bank account the use of QR code payments is becoming much easier. There is still a ways to go before it moves fully cashless, but it’s getting better. There are other options such as Line Pay etc but the easiest is with a Thai Bank account and using QR codes. I even saw a few buskers around Bangkok with their own QR payment board.
 

They really need to get more “Tap and pay”systems in place. Many of the handheld payment terminals support this but the systems behind it don’t   

I think I used "tap" quite a bit in May

Not as much as I can in Canada

 

In Canada I often leave the house with just my phone

 

I can tap my phone to pay and I use my phone to let myself into my apartment building 

 

So no need for anything else

 

I love it!

[Soidog]

44 minutes ago, Faz said:

It's an idea that won't be workable in Thailand during my lifetime.
They'll have to redevelop the education system first.

Agreed. Education, education and education are the prerequisite to growing an economy. Thailand simply hasn’t accepted that and continues to stagnate in the roll of a “developing nation”.  More content to spend school time teaching kids of the glories of previous leaders. Many kids leaving school today can’t even tell you where their country is on a map of the world. 

[Soidog]

11 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I think I used "tap" quite a bit in May

Not as much as I can in Canada

In Canada I often leave the house with just my phone

I can tap my phone to pay and I use my phone to let myself into my apartment building 

So no need for anything else

I love it!

Yes agreed. Although increasingly here in Thailand I do the same. I never carry my ATM card as if I need cash, I can do a card less transaction. I love that also

[Rookiescot]

17 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I think I used "tap" quite a bit in May

Not as much as I can in Canada

In Canada I often leave the house with just my phone

I can tap my phone to pay and I use my phone to let myself into my apartment building 

So no need for anything else

I love it!

Until your phone is lost or stolen.

Lot to be said for having an analogue backup in an increasingly digital world.

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Agreed. Education, education and education are the prerequisite to growing an economy. Thailand simply hasn’t accepted that and continues to stagnate in the roll of a “developing nation”.  More content to spend school time teaching kids of the glories of previous leaders. Many kids leaving school today can’t even tell you where their country is on a map of the world. 

Education is available here in Thailand it is simply at a cost which prevents the vast majority from accesing it.

This of course means only the "elite" class can benefit from it which is by design. 

Sadly this is not restricted to Thailand and in places like the UK the "old school tie" still matters a lot.

[Marc26]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Until your phone is lost or stolen.

Lot to be said for having an analogue backup in an increasingly digital world.

Yes of course there is risk in it

 

In my personal case, I only do that if I am going out in downtown in the area I live in

So wouldn't be stuck anywhere 

 

I wouldn't do it if I were leaving the vicinity of downtown 

[Soidog]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Sadly this is not restricted to Thailand and in places like the UK the "old school tie" still matters a lot.

Of course. I think in all countries there is some form of social hierarchy and Britain is no exemption. That said, the level of inequality and access to a decent education system are worlds apart compared to Thailand.

If it is by design and I suspect as you say, it is. Then the leaders and elite in this country are living in a fools paradise. Thailand is already seeing some of the lowest growth in the region and this is likely to continue. Combine the lack of in country skills with the nationalistic mantra of no foreigners in top jobs and you have a recipe for disaster. Sadly when that comes, it will be the poor who feel it most   Nothing short of revolution is required to change it. 

[HolyCowCm]

5 hours ago, Soidog said:

Yes I do understand that and I wouldn’t want my movements tracked. I guess it’s just that I’ll accept the potential downside of cashless for the upside it brings me. It’s a personal choice and I’d certainly support anyone who wants to keep cash. 
 

Appreciate the feedback on the posts. Maybe today I’m just in the middle to stir the pot a little for those that think they are being watched

Good for you if restraint is ok. Not for me and my kids. The new generation, my kids and kids are too young to be engraved.

 

 

[francoa]

cashless society is the ultimate dictatorship and loss of elemental freedom rights. Worst than anything ever before.

[HiuMak]

25 minutes ago, francoa said:

cashless society is the ultimate dictatorship and loss of elemental freedom rights. Worst than anything ever before.

We should go back to barter trade. Would you like some of my strawberries for your loaf of bread?

[Cabra]

23 hours ago, Soidog said:

I agree that as with many things, there are Pro’s and Con’s. However, on balance and as someone who doesn’t buy in to the idea that governments are interested in how many beers I buy or how much I spend on petrol, then the government big brother is off the table. As such the benefits far outweigh the negatives. 
 

When I was last in the U.K. I took out £100 in cash. Three months later I still had £88 left in my wallet. I come back to Thailand and I’m forever checking it’s a 100 baht note not a 1,000.  Three or four times a day I’m having to sort out the pockets full of paper I have screwed up. Each night I place a handful of 1,5 & 10 baht coins in a jar. When you lose cash you lose it. It’s gone and rarely does it get returned. 
 

To me, the only downside relating to governments seeing what I spend my money on I simply either don’t care or don’t believe. They can do that now when I use a credit or debit card. Carrying my smartphone with me is something I do as a matter of course. I want family and friends to be able to contact me. It’s important in an emergency. I need it to take pictures and stay connected with email. If I get lost I use GPS. I can catch up with news and I even watch TV on my phone while having a coffee, etc etc etc. 

It's not always about what you purchase, it's also about your movements. Governments can not track your movements from cash use. But if all you purchase is fuel and beer, and confine yourself to a 50 kilometer radius, then you probably have nothing interesting, private or secret enough to be too concerned about personal privacy anyways. But there are other good reasons to pay cash... People pay cash to avoid income, sales and use taxes (for one), and merchants only accept cash because they don't want to pay bank fees. Cash is freedom. Your kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. Cash is, however, the lifeblood of crime and corruption, as such, I don't see Thailand going cashless anytime soon (you will be dead before that happens). And truth be told, if we are honest with ourselves, we all, on occasion, participate in the black market/underground economy (i.e., drugs, bootlegging, smuggling, dealing in stolen goods, prostitution, loansharking, gambling, tax free labor, etc.). All staples of the Thai economy. Moreover, for many the world over, having the freedom to self report income from self-employment, barter, and free-lance work is reason enough to want to deal in cash only. 

[HolyCowCm]

17 hours ago, Soidog said:

Appreciate the feedback on the posts. Maybe today I’m just in the middle to stir the pot a little for those that think they are being watched

I am a realist. We are all being tracked in many ways so 100% freedom is no way unless you totally go off the grid and hide away in a mountain retreat. I just don't like the idea of them even knowing what underware I use, size of my sons condoms or feminine hygene products my wife and daughters use.

Now in the USA the police cars have license plate trackers on their cars so that everytime it will automatically ready your plate even if parked in your own driveway as it creates a record of where your car is or has been or has had a habit of going to. Toss in the cashless society and they basically got you doing on everything from buying to tracking your movement by mobile phones or you automobile. In actuality they don't need to chip us, they alreay have in a way. In a way I see only the very very wealthy will have freedom to a point. No thanks ato a cahsless society, but lasttime I was in the USA that is all I saw kids and poeople doing usin g their phones. I prefer cash thank you.

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Cabra said:

It's not always about what you purchase, it's also about your movements. Governments can not track your movements from cash use. But if all you purchase is fuel and beer, and confine yourself to a 50 kilometer radius, then you probably have nothing interesting, private or secret enough to be too concerned about personal privacy anyways. But there are other good reasons to pay cash... People pay cash to avoid income, sales and use taxes (for one), and merchants only accept cash because they don't want to pay bank fees. Cash is freedom. Your kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. Cash is, however, the lifeblood of crime and corruption, as such, I don't see Thailand going cashless anytime soon (you will be dead before that happens). And truth be told, if we are honest with ourselves, we all, on occasion, participate in the black market/underground economy (i.e., drugs, bootlegging, smuggling, dealing in stolen goods, prostitution, loansharking, gambling, tax free labor, etc.). All staples of the Thai economy. Moreover, for many the world over, having the freedom to self report income from self-employment, barter, and free-lance work is reason enough to want to deal in cash only. 

Well I do buy a few other things more than beer and petrol, they were examples. But if the government want to track my movements then let them do it. They can do it anyway via my mobile phone and the myriad of CCTV everywhere. I really have nothing to hide of where I go or what I do and I’m convinced my government won’t be interested in what I do. It’s odd how some people worry about that but don’t seem bothered about having to do TM30 reporting in Thailand. 
 

I just find not carrying money around with me more convenient than I do a pocket full of paper notes and coins. Eventually we will all go cashless as it’s the way forward, it’s just a matter of time and for the next couple of generations to come along who don’t remember what it was like having actual money in your pocket. Until then, we have a choice and people can choose what works best for them. 

[francoa]

4 hours ago, HiuMak said:

We should go back to barter trade. Would you like some of my strawberries for your loaf of bread?

Barter trade still works of course:) But only where both parties produce something.

I am talking about cash. Once they manage to get rid off it, government will have total control of anyones life. And I mean 100% control.

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, francoa said:

Barter trade still works of course:) But only where both parties produce something.

I am talking about cash. Once they manage to get rid off it, government will have total control of anyones life. And I mean 100% control.

How will they have 100% control?  Will a cashless society determine when I wake up? When I exercise? When I eat? What job I do? Where I go on holiday. Of course not. An alarmist statement 

[HolyCowCm]

6 hours ago, Cabra said:

It's not always about what you purchase, it's also about your movements. Governments can not track your movements from cash use. But if all you purchase is fuel and beer, and confine yourself to a 50 kilometer radius, then you probably have nothing interesting, private or secret enough to be too concerned about personal privacy anyways. But there are other good reasons to pay cash... People pay cash to avoid income, sales and use taxes (for one), and merchants only accept cash because they don't want to pay bank fees. Cash is freedom. Your kidding yourself if you believe otherwise. Cash is, however, the lifeblood of crime and corruption, as such, I don't see Thailand going cashless anytime soon (you will be dead before that happens). And truth be told, if we are honest with ourselves, we all, on occasion, participate in the black market/underground economy (i.e., drugs, bootlegging, smuggling, dealing in stolen goods, prostitution, loansharking, gambling, tax free labor, etc.). All staples of the Thai economy. Moreover, for many the world over, having the freedom to self report income from self-employment, barter, and free-lance work is reason enough to want to deal in cash only. 

A smart person does not go cashless.

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

How will they have 100% control?  Will a cashless society determine when I wake up? When I exercise? When I eat? What job I do? Where I go on holiday. Of course not. An alarmist statement 

We are basically living in a cashless society now in the west

 

Go out anywhere and 90% or more aren't using cash

 

Some places don't even accept cash

 

I just traveled from Canada to US and been in NYC for 3 days

 

I've used less than $15usd in cash and have spent around $4,000 on my CC

 

All the cash was for tips

[HolyCowCm]

3 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

We are basically living in a cashless society now in the west

Go out anywhere and 90% or more aren't using cash

Some places don't even accept cash

I just traveled from Canada to US and been in NYC for 3 days

I've used less than $15usd in cash and have spent around $4,000 on my CC

All the cash was for tips

Bummer. My credit card then if it is a must. No QR code BS. Curious to what the some places are in themes you are talking about. 

[Soidog]

32 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

We are basically living in a cashless society now in the west

Go out anywhere and 90% or more aren't using cash

Some places don't even accept cash

I just traveled from Canada to US and been in NYC for 3 days

I've used less than $15usd in cash and have spent around $4,000 on my CC

All the cash was for tips

Exactly Marc. I have no problem people who want to keep using cash but to claim governments will have 100% control of our life is just alarmist. I use cashless transactions on 99% of occasions in the U.K.  Very rare I use cash

[Marc26]

59 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

Bummer. My credit card then if it is a must. No QR code BS. Curious to what the some places are in themes you are talking about. 

Airlines are 100% card only in-flight 

They no longer take cash

 

Go to any bar in any major city and it's rare to even see cash exchanged at all

 

Most food delivery is now cashless with your CC stored on the app

 

Most use Uber or some ride sharing and your CC is in the app

And even if you use a regular taxi I'd guess 80% of peope use their CC to pay

 

Even the old decrepit NYC Subway has a CC tap reader at the turnstiles so you don't have to buy a card anymore

You just tap your CC to get in 

[Marc26]

^ That last part just highlights the positives of being cashless

 

Before I'd have to wait in a crowded line to buy a Metrocard and then use that to enter the subway

 

Often times losing the card that still had money left of it

 

Now I just tap my CC

No worries about losing a subway card with value still on it

 

And saving a bunch of time.....

[HolyCowCm]

1 minute ago, Marc26 said:

Airlines are 100% card only in-flight 

They no longer take cash

Go to any bar in any major city and it's rare to even see cash exchanged at all

Most food delivery is now cashless with your CC stored on the app

Most use Uber or some ride sharing and your CC is in the app

And even if you use a regular taxi I'd guess 80% of peope use their CC to pay

Even the old decrepit NYC Subway has a CC tap reader at the turnstiles so you don't have to buy a card anymore

You just tap your CC to get in 

Not denying CC is only what is accepted. I have that. Just no QR code and wallet. I will resist until I have to be assimilated or die first. My kids in the interim will keep on telling them to think how to divert and be the complying sytem of we know everything about you file. Honestly here I don't have to so I won't and I don't. Cash and tranfers and cash.

[Skip]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:44 PM, Soidog said:

Why do you think that? Do you think a government or bank can just take your money from your private bank account without any legal come back on them? What’s the difference between using cash and the bank and government having your cash in their bank? Your cash doesn’t actually exist in a bank. It’s just a number in a computer system. When you draw out £100 or $100 this amount is paid in cash and the remaining figure in the computer gets deducted. Cashless payment is about convenience to you the user and the central banks not having to make the money in the first place. It also cuts out fraudulent bank notes being made. 

Take your blinders off... the government can and has in the past seized assets of it's citizens

[Soidog]

Just now, Skip said:

Take your blinders off... the government can and has in the past seized assets of it's citizens

I don’t wear blinders, they don’t suit me. 
 

Until it happens to me then I’ll continue to enjoy the benefits of cashless systems. If it does happen I’ll reconsider my decision. Now then, should I go outside and water the garden or will the government be watching me from a satellite

[Cabra]

20 hours ago, Soidog said:

Well I do buy a few other things more than beer and petrol, they were examples. But if the government want to track my movements then let them do it. They can do it anyway via my mobile phone and the myriad of CCTV everywhere. I really have nothing to hide of where I go or what I do and I’m convinced my government won’t be interested in what I do. It’s odd how some people worry about that but don’t seem bothered about having to do TM30 reporting in Thailand. 
 

I just find not carrying money around with me more convenient than I do a pocket full of paper notes and coins. Eventually we will all go cashless as it’s the way forward, it’s just a matter of time and for the next couple of generations to come along who don’t remember what it was like having actual money in your pocket. Until then, we have a choice and people can choose what works best for them. 

We have no choice but to do tm30 and tm47. That's just one form of innocuous government control. However, history (including contemporary) is replete with more alarming examples of government inspired control, suppression, repression, and surveillance perpetrated on the hoi polloi. Just look at the 23,000 new CCTV cameras Thailand recently installed leading up to APEC, or the $400m fine Google paid for tracking people's mobiles... It's happening everyday all around us. If you need more facts search "freedom index". Clearly, governments don't care about saints, dilettantes, or dull-minded sleep-walkers doing and believing everything they are told. They pose no threat. Sadly, the march towards cashless began when governments starting taking large denomination banknotes out of circulation (there is a reason the US and EU no longer have the $/€500 banknote). Cash is good, cash is freedom, and I hope it never disappears. I don't pay cash for everything, nor would I want to. But I want the option. Most people have public, private and secrets lives they don't want interfered with. And if anyone is willingly giving up privacy for the illusion of safety and security, then they deserve neither. I'm not a tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. Just living the best life I can with my eyes wide open to the Injustices and inequality all around us.