News Forum - Thailand pushes digital payments, rejects US dollar in move towards cashless society

[ShibaBud]

 

Electronic payment has many benefits to govt, and a dubious one to consumer - convenience (?). I'd almost have to have my phone surgically fused to my ass in case I get a craving for ice cream while jogging. 

Like most electronics....just wait till a problem arises. Then we are at the mercy of faceless incognito on bank/govt computers. Oh but it gives authorities 100% control so don't even think of becoming a nuisance to government.

This is one facet of being ushered into the New world order.

 

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, ShibaBud said:

Electronic payment has many benefits to govt, and a dubious one to consumer - convenience (?). I'd almost have to have my phone surgically fused to my ass in case I get a craving for ice cream while jogging. 

Like most electronics....just wait till a problem arises. Then we are at the mercy of faceless incognito on bank/govt computers. Oh but it gives authorities 100% control so don't even think of becoming a nuisance to government.

This is one facet of being ushered into the New world order.

I’m saddened to read your post. First of all, your “Phone” is not just a phone. It’s a miniature mobile computer that happens to have a function that allows you to make phone calls. The modern mobile device is an integral part of modern society. Those who chose to see it a a telephone will continue to find life ever more frustrating and get left behind. It’s a personal choice of course, but the modern world won’t dance to personal choices. 

[Cabra]

A cashless society is just a greater surveillance state. Thailand (and governments in general) loves surveillance. The up side is people handling less cash will lead to fewer robberies. The downsides of going cashless is far less privacy, greater exposure to hacking, and technological dependency. Pick your poison. 

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, Cabra said:

A cashless society is just a greater surveillance state. Thailand (and governments in general) loves surveillance. The up side is people handling less cash will lead to fewer robberies. The downsides of going cashless is far less privacy, greater exposure to hacking, and technological dependency. Pick your poison. 

I agree that as with many things, there are Pro’s and Con’s. However, on balance and as someone who doesn’t buy in to the idea that governments are interested in how many beers I buy or how much I spend on petrol, then the government big brother is off the table. As such the benefits far outweigh the negatives. 
 

When I was last in the U.K. I took out £100 in cash. Three months later I still had £88 left in my wallet. I come back to Thailand and I’m forever checking it’s a 100 baht note not a 1,000.  Three or four times a day I’m having to sort out the pockets full of paper I have screwed up. Each night I place a handful of 1,5 & 10 baht coins in a jar. When you lose cash you lose it. It’s gone and rarely does it get returned. 
 

To me, the only downside relating to governments seeing what I spend my money on I simply either don’t care or don’t believe. They can do that now when I use a credit or debit card. Carrying my smartphone with me is something I do as a matter of course. I want family and friends to be able to contact me. It’s important in an emergency. I need it to take pictures and stay connected with email. If I get lost I use GPS. I can catch up with news and I even watch TV on my phone while having a coffee, etc etc etc. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

15 hours ago, Soidog said:

Why do you think that? Do you think a government or bank can just take your money from your private bank account without any legal come back on them? What’s the difference between using cash and the bank and government having your cash in their bank? Your cash doesn’t actually exist in a bank. It’s just a number in a computer system. When you draw out £100 or $100 this amount is paid in cash and the remaining figure in the computer gets deducted. Cashless payment is about convenience to you the user and the central banks not having to make the money in the first place. It also cuts out fraudulent bank notes being made. 

That's exactly what the government did in Cyprus... 

[TheDirtyDurian]

15 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

I’m with you on this one. One is I don’t want everything I do and what I buy traced and tracked and filed, second I don’t trust online with my bank accounts, third, I like to use cash. Old school. Anyone can use it as they like, but I will stick to cash and credit cards. 
 

You do realise they can track your credit card too right...

[Soidog]

19 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

That's exactly what the government did in Cyprus... 

Well they took a one off levy of around 10% on deposits above 100,000 Euros. It’s true they took the money but this has little to do with a cashless society. Unless of course you advocate keeping all your savings in cash under your bed? 
 

This was a rare and special set of circumstances enacted by a bank that doesn’t follow normal rules. I would not foresee even something like this happening in the U.K for example. At the end of the day you have a choice where to keep your money. In a bank or in cash earning no interest and at risk of theft. I know who I would trust more.

[hydraides]

15 hours ago, Soidog said:

Why do you think that? Do you think a government or bank can just take your money from your private bank account without any legal come back on them? What’s the difference between using cash and the bank and government having your cash in their bank? Your cash doesn’t actually exist in a bank. It’s just a number in a computer system. When you draw out £100 or $100 this amount is paid in cash and the remaining figure in the computer gets deducted. Cashless payment is about convenience to you the user and the central banks not having to make the money in the first place. It also cuts out fraudulent bank notes being made. 

Just look at the Canadian Government cancelling the bank accounts of Truckers protesting ......its NOT science fiction............it has ALREADY be done by a TRUSTED , LIBERAL, WESTERN GOVERNMENT. IF you don't follow the narrative............you won't have access to your bank account. Cashless society is a TERRIBLE idea......you are an idiot and completely naive if you say otherwise..........and don't see the real serious consequences. 

 

[TheDirtyDurian]

44 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Well they took a one off levy of around 10% on deposits above 100,000 Euros. It’s true they took the money but this has little to do with a cashless society. Unless of course you advocate keeping all your savings in cash under your bed? 
 

This was a rare and special set of circumstances enacted by a bank that doesn’t follow normal rules. I would not foresee even something like this happening in the U.K for example. At the end of the day you have a choice where to keep your money. In a bank or in cash earning no interest and at risk of theft. I know who I would trust more.

Yeah, I get all that and I agree with you. 

I just pointed out that governments can and do take your money if they see fit, that's all.... 

[Soidog]

58 minutes ago, hydraides said:

you are an idiot and completely naive if you say otherwise..........and don't see the real serious consequences. 

I do say otherwise and I don’t think I’m an idiot or naive. Where do you keep your money? 

[HolyCowCm]

2 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

You do realise they can track your credit card too right...

Irrelevant as we never use them. We use them very seldom. 

[HolyCowCm]

15 hours ago, Faz said:

Thailand, a cashless society ............. never work.

It better not! But reality after covid and the reperatedly falling short by the Junta Gov here, there are many without cash.

[Manu]

7 hours ago, Soidog said:

I’m saddened to read your post. First of all, your “Phone” is not just a phone. It’s a miniature mobile computer that happens to have a function that allows you to make phone calls. The modern mobile device is an integral part of modern society. Those who chose to see it a a telephone will continue to find life ever more frustrating and get left behind.

Nobody disagree with that, while it does not seem to be a problem for you, it is for many others.

Quote

It’s a personal choice of course, but the modern world won’t dance to personal choices. 

It is becoming not a choice anymore, we are forced to go along, it is exactly for that reason that it is problem for many.

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Yeah, I get all that and I agree with you. 

I just pointed out that governments can and do take your money if they see fit, that's all.... 

Yes I do agree. I just think on balance, the risk of losing your money or having it stolen by some thief is higher than the government taking it.

[Soidog]

11 minutes ago, Manu said:

Nobody disagree with that, while it does not seem to be a problem for you, it is for many others.

It is becoming not a choice anymore, we are forced to go along, it is exactly for that reason that it is problem for many.

Yes I understand it’s a problem for some. I just don’t understand why it’s a problem for some. It’s a smart phone. No bigger than a wallet. 
 

Some people don’t like to carry it around as they think they are always on call to others. Put your phone on mute, don’t answer it. Put it on airplane mode so no one can call you. Just have it available when you want it. 

[HolyCowCm]

9 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes I understand it’s a problem for some. I just don’t understand why it’s a problem for some. It’s a smart phone. No bigger than a wallet. 
 

Some people don’t like to carry it around as they think they are always on call to others. Put your phone on mute, don’t answer it. Put it on airplane mode so no one can call you. Just have it available when you want it. 

Hi Soidog. It reaches more far into things as not tracking one's movements. I really like you and most your posts, but I basically do not want my shite to be tracked every move and then filed and then systemtically pinpointing all my activity. GPS is a different scene that your spending traits. 

[Manu]

2 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes I understand it’s a problem for some. I just don’t understand why it’s a problem for some. It’s a smart phone. No bigger than a wallet. 
 

Some people don’t like to carry it around as they think they are always on call to others. Put your phone on mute, don’t answer it. Put it on airplane mode so no one can call you. Just have it available when you want it. 

I take money with my card once a week. I always take enough cash to last that long. Nobody knows any of my movement during that week, what I buy or where I buy.

If I were to use a smartphone to pay for everything, someone somewhere will collect data of every single of my movement and purchases. Where are these data going? How will they be used evntually? To track me? To know my habits for commercial purposes? I do not know and you do not know where all these data will eventually end up, although I have a rough idea. So that's why it is a problem for me. If you are happy to loose the little left of your privacy, I am not.

Trust me, everything is off on my smartphone, I am only using it to text and call and actually very rarely, certainly no banking. I am also using a very reliable VPN when I go online. I am not stupid enough to think that it cannot be tracked anyway. At least I will not make it easy to do so simply to protect my privacy as much as I can.

Orwell published 1984 in 1946. Imagine what he would write today about cashless nations like Thailand, China (where it is pratically already the case), etc... A cashless society if one step forward to total control of the people, one step amongst other steps. So that's why it is a also problem for me.

[Manu]

3 hours ago, hydraides said:

Just look at the Canadian Government cancelling the bank accounts of Truckers protesting ......its NOT science fiction............it has ALREADY be done by a TRUSTED , LIBERAL, WESTERN GOVERNMENT. IF you don't follow the narrative............you won't have access to your bank account. Cashless society is a TERRIBLE idea......you are an idiot and completely naive if you say otherwise..........and don't see the real serious consequences. 

And look what the very TRUSTED, LIBERAL WESTERN goverment of The Netherlands are trying to do...

https://www.amlintelligence.com/2022/10/news-dutch-finance-minister-hopes-anonymising-data-will-get-new-aml-law-through-parliament-amid-privacy-concerns-banks-complain-about-compliance-costs/

[Faz]

Off-topic post and reply removed.

Moderator.

[Faz]

41 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes I understand it’s a problem for some. I just don’t understand why it’s a problem for some. It’s a smart phone. No bigger than a wallet. 
 

Some people don’t like to carry it around as they think they are always on call to others. Put your phone on mute, don’t answer it. Put it on airplane mode so no one can call you. Just have it available when you want it. 

You're forgetting the retailers.
What about all the mama and papa shops and small business. Will they be expected to install scanners and hand held printers for receipts?

Never stood in a queue at Tops where the 3 customers in front are paying cashless, the banking network is down, or an issue with the internet. Never would it dawned on the retailer to ask a customer to stand aside whilst they serve another. They just keep trying.
By the time you get to check out, the frozen chicken has defrosted, and the milks turned sour - PITA.

[Soidog]

43 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

Hi Soidog. It reaches more far into things as not tracking one's movements. I really like you and most your posts, but I basically do not want my shite to be tracked every move and then filed and then systemtically pinpointing all my activity. GPS is a different scene that your spending traits. 

Yes I do understand that and I wouldn’t want my movements tracked. I guess it’s just that I’ll accept the potential downside of cashless for the upside it brings me. It’s a personal choice and I’d certainly support anyone who wants to keep cash. 
 

Appreciate the feedback on the posts. Maybe today I’m just in the middle to stir the pot a little for those that think they are being watched

[Soidog]

37 minutes ago, Manu said:

I take money with my card once a week. I always take enough cash to last that long. Nobody knows any of my movement during that week, what I buy or where I buy.

If I were to use a smartphone to pay for everything, someone somewhere will collect data of every single of my movement and purchases. Where are these data going? How will they be used evntually? To track me? To know my habits for commercial purposes? I do not know and you do not know where all these data will eventually end up, although I have a rough idea. So that's why it is a problem for me. If you are happy to loose the little left of your privacy, I am not.

Trust me, everything is off on my smartphone, I am only using it to text and call and actually very rarely, certainly no banking. I am also using a very reliable VPN when I go online. I am not stupid enough to think that it cannot be tracked anyway. At least I will not make it easy to do so simply to protect my privacy as much as I can.

Orwell published 1984 in 1946. Imagine what he would write today about cashless nations like Thailand, China (where it is pratically already the case), etc... A cashless society if one step forward to total control of the people, one step amongst other steps. So that's why it is an also problem for me.

That’s fair enough and I would certainly protect your rights to feel that way. For me though, I think that I have nothing to hide. I use the internet extensively and so my preferences are known anyway. I’m potentially followed everywhere on cctv. I use credit cards and debit cards. I have Netflix accounts which track my preferences etc etc. I’m simply not bothered what data “They” have on me. I will use the positive and accept the potential negatives. 
 

Good discussion and thanks for the feedback

[Soidog]

17 minutes ago, Faz said:

You're forgetting the retailers.
What about all the mama and papa shops and small business. Will they be expected to install scanners and hand held printers for receipts?

Never stood in a queue at Tops where the 3 customers in front are paying cashless, the banking network is down, or an issue with the internet. Never would it dawned on the retailer to ask a customer to stand aside whilst they serve another. They just keep trying.
By the time you get to check out, the frozen chicken has defrosted, and the milks turned sour - PITA.

Yes I agree with that in regard to the corner shops in the village and Thailand will never remove cash until it’s a wealthier nation. Thailand also needs to ramp up its infrastructure and people’s understanding of how to use such things. Mind you, if you are referring to the self-serve counters at Tops, then much of that is user error. I never use self-serve counters in Thailand or anywhere if I can for two reason. 1) I don’t want to serve myself and increase the company profits at my expense. 2) I don’t want to put the person on the checkout out of a job. However, after my items are scanned, I’d love to just tap my phone on the reader and be gone. 
 

As a slight aside, one of the things that slows everything down in Thailand, including in 7/11, is all the points collection systems. “Do you have your mobile number?”  Just incredible how much time that wastes. 

[Faz]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Thailand also needs to ramp up its infrastructure and people’s understanding of how to use such things.

The last two attempts to pay via my Bangkok Bank Visa debit card at Global, they couldn't complete the transactions. They state it happens a lot. So the option is now to drive to the nearest ATM, withdraw cash, return and pay cash.

Some retailers also charge for card use - beware.

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Mind you, if you are referring to the self-serve counters at Tops, then much of that is user error.

No, this is at staff check out points, happens at Makro as well.
After 30 minutes and the staff member still attempting to make a cashless transaction with the first customer, I caught another member of staff and asked if they could open another till, which they did.

It's an idea that won't be workable in Thailand during my lifetime.
They'll have to redevelop the education system first.

[Marc26]

11 hours ago, Soidog said:

Yes Wise is a great option for travellers. The other option if you are U.K. based (possibly a few other countries)  is Monzo. Almost identical rates to Wise and you do the same thing with it. You can top up your Monzo card from your banking app and spend it as if it was a normal debit card. As it’s a Mastercard it’s accepted in most places. You can get cash out of an ATM using it but there is usually a 220 baht charge and as you say, the ATM exchange rates are poor. For the average holiday travel, these small amounts make little difference. If you are planning on being here for several months and spending £2,000-£3,000 each month then it can mount up.

To apply for a Monzo card just download the app and it will guide you. As its app based you can also track your spending  freeze your card if lost etc

I think even if you are there for a couple weeks it makes a big difference in the rate your credit card or ATM charges you

 

The USD/CAD rate is around 1.32

I've been using my credit card for business expenses and it charges me 1.35/1.36

 

That makes a big difference when spending even 1,000usd or say 30k baht