News Forum - How can Thailand win its war on drugs?

[Manu]

26 minutes ago, Soidog said:

 

The answer to the Afghan drug problem is entirely different. 

This was the sentence of Fanta I was responding to:"Jails for users should be a last resort not the preferred option. " My opinion was no, it is never an option. And I gave the Afhgan example to make my point. And yes, the drug problem is the same everywhere. If one country found one day finds the best solution to the drug problem, that best solution should work the same way everywhere. But none has yet so good luck Thailand.

[Viggen840]

17 hours ago, ChrisS said:

Rooting out the corrupt officials in Law Enforcement who are aiding the suppliers might be a good start!

In Law Enforcement? You set the bar way too low, I think. Look a lot higher, maybe even the Prime Minister...'s office and staff being on the take. Why not? There is money to be made and a pecking order to claw their way up...

[Viggen840]

17 hours ago, palooka said:

People in control are too highly placed

Same old same old. How long before the long-tailed rodent starts moves to legalise this poison? Just long enough to cement his position in the manufacturing industry - to ensure purity of product...

[Viggen840]

15 hours ago, MrNovax said:

throwing people in a cage for victimless "crimes." 

You protest too much; are you a user? It is only 'victimless' until an innocent civilian is robbed, or murdered for their household goods.

I believe that the death penalty for manufacturing or selling this poison should be mandatory and no appeal accommodated. Users SHOULD receive treatment and counselling - in prison (not in a fancy clinic) and not released until assessed as clean. Subsequent use to be treated to life behind bars without parole. This probably sounds harsh to you, but tell that to the people who have been beaten and the families who have lost loved ones to these feral cretins.

[Cabra]

Many countries (larger, more powerful, better funded, and committed) have tried to win this "war"  to no avail. Prohibition does not work (the USA even tried it with alcohol in the 1930s). Mass incarceration doesn't work (for anything). Not to mention the very relevant and important issue surrounding the complete randomness of what is considered illegal (why/why not coca leaves, ganja, bettlenut, kratom, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, sugary energy drinks, etc... who gets to decide, on what criteria...). Only Portugal has dared to do what everyone else is afraid to do... decriminalize the public and private use, acquisition, and possession of all illegal drugs, as long as they do not exceed the amount required for an average individual's. And it's actually working. We need to stop pretending we can eradicate drugs/intoxicates... it goes against our very nature. Moreover, it's a fools errand. 

https://www.thecommononline.org/decriminalization-a-love-story/

 

[KaptainRob]

1 hour ago, Cabra said:

Many countries (larger, more powerful, better funded, and committed) have tried to win this "war"  to no avail. Prohibition does not work (the USA even tried it with alcohol in the 1930s). Mass incarceration doesn't work (for anything). Not to mention the very relevant and important issue surrounding the complete randomness of what is considered illegal (why/why not coca leaves, ganja, bettlenut, kratom, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, sugary energy drinks, etc... who gets to decide, on what criteria...). Only Portugal has dared to do what everyone else is afraid to do... decriminalize the public and private use, acquisition, and possession of all illegal drugs, as long as they do not exceed the amount required for an average individual's. And it's actually working. We need to stop pretending we can eradicate drugs/intoxicates... it goes against our very nature. Moreover, it's a fools errand. 

https://www.thecommononline.org/decriminalization-a-love-story/

Dont go to war on all drugs, just come down very hard on synthetic Meth type poisons, even reclassify them as such ... POISON.  Because that's what they are.

[Viggen840]

16 hours ago, Cabra said:

The only true solution is to address demand – which means legalization

Can you be honest and disclose which of these poisons you are addicted to? Also, how do you (legally) support your habit - without resorting to burglary and assault, that is?

[Viggen840]

14 hours ago, MrNovax said:

Putting them in jail just means they will never be productive members of society

Who says they are EVER going to be productive members of society? Death sentence for manufacturers, dealers and corrupt officials allowing the trade, prison and rehab (inside) for users on first offence, life inside for repeat offenders.

Not sympathetic? Look up 'sympathy' in the dictionary; it comes between 's#1t' and 'syphilis'.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Viggen840
Content

[Viggen840]

14 hours ago, Soidog said:

Police caught assisting? Death penalty

Add to that corrupt bureaucrats and politicians abetting the offence - death.

[Viggen840]

12 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

Sanction China for supply of precursors and block importation or transhipping of those chemicals

Now THAT goes toward nipping the problem in the bud. Either that, or accidental explosions in that particular province that happen to take out their manufacturing process (and the corrupt officials with it

[Viggen840]

10 hours ago, Fanta said:

Jails for users should be a last resort not the preferred option. 

Damnit, Fanta, I almost have to agree with you! If you had said 'include rehab facilities inside prisons', I would have been 100% behind you. As it is, I would not trust a druggie to voluntarily 'attend' an outside rehab facility; they cannot be trusted to look after their own welfare when temptation is readily at hand.

[Viggen840]

6 hours ago, Manu said:

Are people who abuse "alcohol" also total losers

There is legal alcohol consumption, and then there is alcohol abuse. Alcohol abuse injuring or endangering others should and is targeted as a crime and treated as such. I have never had much time for Alcoholics Anonymous; I see it as a gum flapping 'look-at-me' organisation who may have some success, but nothing more than determination by the drunk to pull themselves up by the bootlaces.

If alcohol was discovered just today, I am sure it would be on the banned list before you could blink. Until such time as it is banned - and the bleeding-hearts are chipping away at that bastion - I will continue to enjoy my limited drinking at home and with close friends.

[Manu]

1 hour ago, Cabra said:

Many countries (larger, more powerful, better funded, and committed) have tried to win this "war"  to no avail. Prohibition does not work (the USA even tried it with alcohol in the 1930s). Mass incarceration doesn't work (for anything). Not to mention the very relevant and important issue surrounding the complete randomness of what is considered illegal (why/why not coca leaves, ganja, bettlenut, kratom, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, sugary energy drinks, etc... who gets to decide, on what criteria...). Only Portugal has dared to do what everyone else is afraid to do... decriminalize the public and private use, acquisition, and possession of all illegal drugs, as long as they do not exceed the amount required for an average individual's. And it's actually working. We need to stop pretending we can eradicate drugs/intoxicates... it goes against our very nature. Moreover, it's a fools errand. 

https://www.thecommononline.org/decriminalization-a-love-story/

Indeed complete common sense. There are more drugs now than ever worlwide, surely it is about time to realise than nothing will eradicate drugs now. And the longer we leave the control of drugs in the hands of ruthless criminals, the more it will get out of hand and it is the case in many countries already.

[Manu]

10 minutes ago, Viggen840 said:

There is legal alcohol consumption, and then there is alcohol abuse. Alcohol abuse injuring or endangering others should and is targeted as a crime and treated as such. I have never had much time for Alcoholics Anonymous; I see it as a gum flapping 'look-at-me' organisation who may have some success, but nothing more than determination by the drunk to pull themselves up by the bootlaces.

If alcohol was discovered just today, I am sure it would be on the banned list before you could blink. Until such time as it is banned - and the bleeding-hearts are chipping away at that bastion - I will continue to enjoy my limited drinking at home and with close friends.

But there could be also legal drug comsumption and, sadly, there will always be drug abuse. And indeed like you said with drunks, nothing more than determination by the drug addicts to pull themselves up by the bootlaces. And that goes for all other addictions too. So we all agree to these facts. But drugs have been in illegality for decades and what is the result today? Better? No, incredibly worse, while all sorts of actions to eradicate it, drug barons amongst the richest people in the world taken down, repression at street level all over the world, etc... etc, cheaper and more lethal drugs are appearing everywhere (everything is available where I am in Thailand, and it is an island with a small population), the streets in many countries have never been so unsafe because of drug dealers (in my country France for a start), the amount of drug addicts is rising everywhere... If we continue to leave the control of drugs in the hands of criminals, it will never get better. The evolution of the past decades is showing only that.

[Cabra]

3 hours ago, Viggen840 said:

I believe that the death penalty for manufacturing or selling this poison should be mandatory and no appeal accommodated.

You could go to live in China. Ranks first in the world of executions related to drug trafficking. And guess what ... It's not working and the problem presist. 

The policies of zero tolerance only equip law-enforcement with autocratic powers of coercion and surveillance (the right to invade ANYBODY's privacy, bend the rules of evidence, stop motorists, inspect bank records, tap phones). I suggest you also consider living in Iran if you are so keen on autocratic drug interdiction policies. 

[longwood50]

18 hours ago, Soidog said:

Round up and lock up the ring leaders. Make examples of every single person. Zero tolerance

The profits to be made are far greater than what these people can expect to earn working legitimately.  The only way to deter people from entering the illegal drug trade is to make the consequences of getting caught so severe that they are afraid to take the chance.  

Being honest, this isn't just about someone who gets hooked on drugs. These people are killing people particurlay with the opiods like heroin and fentanyl.  The families of those on drugs are devastated and society has additional crime from users who go into illegal activities to support their drug habit. 

I have no delusions that it will totally eliminate the problem, but I am of the opinion that public execution of drug dealers will go a long way towards impressing on those involved that the penalty is real.  I have no problem with caning those who are involved in the drug trade as perhaps a first punishment.  Now there will be those who say well that is cruel and barbaric.  To that I reply, no to allow these vermin to exist and to let them inflict countless pain and suffering on other people is cruel and barbaric.  The parties who are involved in the drug trade are indeed criminals but those who permit them to continue to peddle death, pain, and suffering on society are equally guilty of letting it continue. 

[riclag]

1 hour ago, longwood50 said:

The profits to be made are far greater than what these people can expect to earn working legitimately.  The only way to deter people from entering the illegal drug trade is to make the consequences of getting caught so severe that they are afraid to take the chance.  

Being honest, this isn't just about someone who gets hooked on drugs. These people are killing people particurlay with the opiods like heroin and fentanyl.  The families of those on drugs are devastated and society has additional crime from users who go into illegal activities to support their drug habit. 

I have no delusions that it will totally eliminate the problem, but I am of the opinion that public execution of drug dealers will go a long way towards impressing on those involved that the penalty is real.  I have no problem with caning those who are involved in the drug trade as perhaps a first punishment.  Now there will be those who say well that is cruel and barbaric.  To that I reply, no to allow these vermin to exist and to let them inflict countless pain and suffering on other people is cruel and barbaric.  The parties who are involved in the drug trade are indeed criminals but those who permit them to continue to peddle death, pain, and suffering on society are equally guilty of letting it continue. 

I dont know if Thai culture could accept  a Duterte similar approach to a war on drugs,even though it gets the message across better then other approaches.

Unfortunately it has to be war tactics against the dark side to make a meaningful outcome.

I don’t think society will rid itself of drugs ,like meth, heroin and cocaine but it can debilitate its production and use with harsh measures !

 

[longwood50]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

I don’t think society will rid itself of drugs ,like meth, heroin and cocaine but it can debilitate its production and use with harsh measures !

That is why the war on drugs never succeeds.  Those who sell drugs are ruthless and have no moral compass.  The world keeps trying to treat them "humanely"  What is forgotten is that these people literally kill people with their drugs, ruin their families with the addiction and spread additional crime into society.  

In the old West they hung people in the town square to demonstrate that certain behaviors would not be tolerated.  While that may seem harsh or barbaric it likely was more humane in that it saved innocent lives.  

Call me barbaric, but I empathize with those victimized by drugs and their families and have zero empathy towards those who peddle them.  You cant have society trying to fight using Marquess of Queensberry rules while the adversaries use Vale Tudo ( everything allowed) tactics.  

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Call me barbaric,

It’s not barbaric. I’d personally flog them then hang them. Either that or I’d take their eyes out with spoons and electrocute them. Put them in a rack and torture the life out of them. The most vile people in the world people who deal drugs. 

[MrNovax]

10 hours ago, Viggen840 said:

You protest too much; are you a user? It is only 'victimless' until an innocent civilian is robbed, or murdered for their household goods.

I believe that the death penalty for manufacturing or selling this poison should be mandatory and no appeal accommodated. Users SHOULD receive treatment and counselling - in prison (not in a fancy clinic) and not released until assessed as clean. Subsequent use to be treated to life behind bars without parole. This probably sounds harsh to you, but tell that to the people who have been beaten and the families who have lost loved ones to these feral cretins.

Nope, never used a "hard" drug in my life.  But just because it doesnt apply to me doesnt mean i cant spot injustice when i see it.  

And I am all for throwing people in prison who act violently, but getting caught with a few pills in your pocket that some dude decided your not allowed to have isnt exactly "civilized" in my opinion.  .  

[MrNovax]

On 10/24/2022 at 10:09 AM, Soidog said:

How does that square with what happened in the mass killings at the school? 

How is this comment on topic?  What relevance exactly does it have? 

[MrNovax]

On 10/24/2022 at 10:19 AM, Marc26 said:

But they aren't victimless crimes

This is what happens when you allow drugs unfethered

And all those people come into neighborhoods and steal and intimidate moms and kids

Dirty needles all over the place where your kids and dogs play

They take valuable resources away from law abiding citizens

A lot to unpack in that to which i dont have the time currently.  This could be done much better than its currently being done in the America's (see Portugal)  

[Soidog]

10 hours ago, MrNovax said:

How is this comment on topic?  What relevance exactly does it have? 

Because the guy was rumoured to be using drugs at the time. That’s how it’s relevant 

[Fanta]

In Thailand meth is cheaper than beer. They need to slow the current flood of cheap meth by reducing the availability which will then raise prices and lead to a lowering in demand. Use the idle Defence Forces to actually defend the people by destroying the meth producing centres across the border while implementing strong border controls. Expecting this government to change from punishment to education or to admit defeat in their hopeless war on drugs is a pipe dream.

[longwood50]

17 hours ago, MrNovax said:

And I am all for throwing people in prison who act violently, but getting caught with a few pills in your pocket that some dude decided your not allowed to have isnt exactly "civilized" in my opinion. 

I think there is a world of difference between someone who has a few pills in their possession versus someone who is in possession of 100,000 pills or worse yet enough fenanyl to kill 100,000 people.   The users may be rehabilitated or punished if they fail to stop their habit.  However the real problem is those that prey on society by poisioning it with drugs. 

For those people I have no empathy.  Consider in the USA 107,000 people died just last year from opiod overdose.  Those people were murdered.  That says nothing of the ancillary crime that comes from rival drug gangs waring with each other, or addicts who commit crime to support their habit.  

In ancient times enemies were placed on sharpened poles inserted in their rectum and put on display for others to fear.  Its time we stop coddling those that peddle death and put the fear of justice in them.  Only when their fear of punishment exceeds their greed will they stop. 

I have huge empathy for those that the drug dealers prey on and it is to those victims that society should be responsive.  Repeated slaps on the wrist for known drug dealers only emboldens others to enter the trade.