News Forum - Builders uncover corrupt Thai Army practices

[Thaiger]

Construction workers say they fear for their lives after stumbling over corrupt Royal Thai Army practices while building army premises. The builders employed the help of a lawyer after they discovered shady dealings while working on army housing loan projects, reported Bangkok Post. They are frightened they will be linked to these corrupt practices. The builders lodged a complaint, via their lawyer, with the Ministry of Defence over alleged corruption within the department’s internal loan system, which implicates at least 20 military officers. The lawyer acting on behalf of the builders, Paisarn Ruangrit, believes the damage from the alleged graft […]

The story Builders uncover corrupt Thai Army practices as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Cabra]

Graft and corruption in the Thai military? Shocking   

[Graham]

1 hour ago, Cabra said:

Graft and corruption in the Thai military? Shocking   

My thoughts exactly. 555

[ChrisS]

By continuing to publish stories like this as if they were rarities Thailand is becoming a laughing stock. Surely they know that everyone knows that graft and corruption forms the basis for ALL Thai government and organisations. Trouble is as it extends from the very bottom to the very top of Thai society who has the will to take any action against it? 

[Soidog]

SHOCKING !! 

[Marc26]

43 minutes ago, ChrisS said:

By continuing to publish stories like this as if they were rarities Thailand is becoming a laughing stock. Surely they know that everyone knows that graft and corruption forms the basis for ALL Thai government and organisations. Trouble is as it extends from the very bottom to the very top of Thai society who has the will to take any action against it? 

Corruption is everywhere, just done differently in different countries

 

I can't call Thailand a laughingstock when my own country, the US, is one of the most corrupt countries in the world with all the politicians insider trading, taking legal lobbying money

 

I live in Vancouver where the developers basically run the city, obviously paying off the politicians in all sorts of ways

 

And it goes that way in most Western countries, we just polish it up a bit more

[Soidog]

21 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Corruption is everywhere, just done differently in different countries

I can't call Thailand a laughingstock when my own country, the US, is one of the most corrupt countries in the world with all the politicians insider trading, taking legal lobbying money

I live in Vancouver where the developers basically run the city, obviously paying off the politicians in all sorts of ways

And it goes that way in most Western countries, we just polish it up a bit more

Umm. I take your point Marc. But in Thailand it’s everywhere and at all levels. It’s not just at high business or high political office. Thailand is totally corrupt and justifiably a laughingstock as a result. It needs to clean up its act. It won’t!  

[HolyCowCm]

Nit surprised as look who keeps the power on this country. Too much in pilfer rewards to pocket. 

[Marc26]

10 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Umm. I take your point Marc. But in Thailand it’s everywhere and at all levels. It’s not just at high business or high political office. Thailand is totally corrupt and justifiably a laughingstock as a result. It needs to clean up its act. It won’t!  

Sure and some farang use that corruption to their advantage 

 

We may not have the petty corruption that Thailand does but we absolutely have the high level corruption that deeply impacts people's lives 

When politicians are voting in favor of money instead of people's interests 

 

And it happens a ton at the highest of levels 

[Marc26]

11 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Umm. I take your point Marc. But in Thailand it’s everywhere and at all levels. It’s not just at high business or high political office. Thailand is totally corrupt and justifiably a laughingstock as a result. It needs to clean up its act. It won’t!  

And believe me

When you raise a kid in Thailand you are faced with corruption all along the way

 

One that really pissed us off and actually all the parents got together and put a stop to it

 

At Thamassat they wouldn't sell the students books and the teachers were selling photocopies of pages for an exorbitant price

 

But we have faced a lot of it 

[Soidog]

5 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Sure and some farang use that corruption to their advantage 

We may not have the petty corruption that Thailand does but we absolutely have the high level corruption that deeply impacts people's lives 

When politicians are voting in favor of money instead of people's interests 

And it happens a ton at the highest of levels 

Well I’m not sure about the US or Canada, but I certainly don’t see endemic corruption in every aspect of life from top to bottom in the U.K. or most other European countries as I do in Thailand. Of course it happens and every now and then a high level issue pops up. But that is in a country with free and open media. If it’s was as widespread as it is here, you’d need a 24 news channel to cover it all. 
 

The attached shows the U.K. in 11th place with Thailand so far down I lost count. They are incomparable in my view. 
 

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corruption-index

[Soidog]

8 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

And believe me

When you raise a kid in Thailand you are faced with corruption all along the way

One that really pissed us off and actually all the parents got together and put a stop to it

At Thamassat they wouldn't sell the students books and the teachers were selling photocopies of pages for an exorbitant price

But we have faced a lot of it 

Agreed. I know of many instances and been involved with many such situations over the years. You generally can get something’s done if you have the time. If you want them done quicker you have to bribe officials. Or what was it one recently called it?  He said it wasn’t a bribe, it was an expression of satisfaction for the help they offered to the person. Incredible !! 

[PeterD]

17 hours ago, Soidog said:

Umm. I take your point Marc. But in Thailand it’s everywhere and at all levels. It’s not just at high business or high political office. Thailand is totally corrupt and justifiably a laughingstock as a result. It needs to clean up its act. It won’t!  

Just recently I was made aware by my Thai wife that the last bit of the whole unpaved road for a private development that is made up of 10 houses (some not yet built) will not be paved. We have had to wait for 3 years for anything and this new development (pun intended) is just talks at this time. So, my wife, not a missing a step, decided to make a donation to the temple with one of those money trees. Does that qualify as corruption?

In another news, upon leaving Thailand on an AO visa, I learned that one must always apply for a re-entry permit. It is written black and white in the stamp in the passport (something that I never paid attention to). I pleaded my case to several officers once I was told. The one at the airport did not give me the opportunity to apply for the re-entry permit there (apparently one can). It was late at night. Maybe they needed time. Who knows why? The one in BKK and the immigration officer in the city I flew in last upon my return told me that all will be okay as I tried to plead my case. I have never missed a step in 10 years of adherence to contrived rules and practices. To no avail. He did not bother to read one letter written in Thai. He shoved it back to me with a drove of forms and a form explaining the process (that he should have knows) we know. For sure, getting a new a/o marriage visa is better money than the 1000 B. for a re-entry permit. It is also more time consuming which ensures that more officers will be needed. Surely, this procedure of entry and re-entry is contrived at best. The 90 days' procedure allows one to do this 7 days late (if in person). Surely, they could have accommodated a good expat or could change the rule. Maybe expats don't get the same treatment as tourists, but I think they should. In any case, is this institutionalized corruption because, to be sure, they gave me a 45 days visa on arrival and did not sweat a drop? All this to say that dysfunctionality is real. I guess bureaucrats are a special animal. The rules are handed down to them and they must follow them to the letter or be removed by higher officers checking.

As to the debate about whether Thailand is the top-dog in that regard, all I can say is that there is corruption in the west as mentioned by Marc. It is the systems that allow it. At the heart of it all, is the campaign donations required to run. Donors (including corruptions ... I mean ... corporations) will ask for favors and will reward politicians who will oblige. Everyone wins except the public. In some ways, Thais (if the argument is that it is ubiquitous) do fight fire with fire or by operating in a similar fashion by, say, charging a foreigner a bit more or holding off in developing a road. It might be so ingrained that it is not even discussed anymore. Is this kind of story even printed in Thai newspapers?

Edited October 21, 2022 by PeterD

[Marc26]

23 hours ago, Soidog said:

Well I’m not sure about the US or Canada, but I certainly don’t see endemic corruption in every aspect of life from top to bottom in the U.K. or most other European countries as I do in Thailand. Of course it happens and every now and then a high level issue pops up. But that is in a country with free and open media. If it’s was as widespread as it is here, you’d need a 24 news channel to cover it all. 
 

The attached shows the U.K. in 11th place with Thailand so far down I lost count. They are incomparable in my view. 
 

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corruption-index

Well because we don't call our corruption, corruption

And we polish it up

 

It's legal for US politicians to inside trade.........that is corruption

It's legal for lobbyists to donate to politicians to vote against citizen's interest..........that is corruption

it's legal for developers to basically bribe politicians to do whatever they want with no care about the residents around them

Police Unions in the US are corrupt as hell and protect wrongdoing worse or far worse than what goes on in Thailand, but because it's done by a "union" it's all ok

 

And all of it does trickle down into our lives, we just don't see it like a cop asking for 500baht

But in most cases that shiny legal corruption effects our lives far worse than a cop asking for 500 baht, etc

[Marc26]

^ Oh, and not that I condone it and I have pushed my wife not to partake in it, but at least in a lot of the everyday corruption in Thailand, you are getting something out of it

 

In the West, politicians are corrupt as hell and we don't get anything out of it at all

[Vigo]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:57 PM, Marc26 said:

Sure and some farang use that corruption to their advantage 

We may not have the petty corruption that Thailand does but we absolutely have the high level corruption that deeply impacts people's lives 

When politicians are voting in favor of money instead of people's interests 

And it happens a ton at the highest of levels 

The difference is that in western countries corrupt politicians and developers are caught and they  are severely punished. Yes corruption occurs but there are measures to attack it and to stop it in the west. Thailand doesn't put much effort into managing the scourge of corruption.

[Marc26]

20 minutes ago, Vigo said:

The difference is that in western countries corrupt politicians and developers are caught and they  are severely punished. Yes corruption occurs but there are measures to attack it and to stop it in the west. Thailand doesn't put much effort into managing the scourge of corruption.

No they aren't

I can only speak of North America, but corruption is baked into the whole system, we make it legal

As I stated above on many issues

 

And it is on issues that effects us deeply

 

Pick whichever link you want about insider trading in Congress

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=congress+traded+stocks&rlz=1C1GCEJ_enCA893CA893&oq=congress+traded+stocks&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i13i512l2j0i22i30l7.6823j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

We talk about police corruption in Thailand the most

 

Look at the tactics of so many police unions that stop investigations into police wrongdoing

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-police-union-power-helped-increase-abuses

 

Pick any topic and I can give you examples of massive corruption that we deem legal

 

And as I said above, at least in places like Thailand, you usually get something out of the corruption

Whereas in the west, we just get screwed over..........

 

We just want to pretend we aren't as corrupt as lowly developing countries, when we are, and many times, a lot worse

[Marc26]

26 minutes ago, Vigo said:

The difference is that in western countries corrupt politicians and developers are caught and they  are severely punished. Yes corruption occurs but there are measures to attack it and to stop it in the west. Thailand doesn't put much effort into managing the scourge of corruption.

The former President's son-in-law got 2 BILLION DOLLARS from Saudi Arabia to manage money he has zero experience in doing so!

 

After they have sided with the Prince and he has had back channel, untraceable contact with the Prince

 

That is massive corruption on a scale that is unimagable and we are going to look down on Thailand?

 

 

[Naanlaew]

I would not say the corruption is always more covert in the west. It is wide out in the open for all to see if people just open their eyes.

When the Trump crime family came to town they rewrote the book on pilfering the taxpayers of the USA.  Started during the campaign and inauguration celebrations and it still continues to this day.

Just look at what they got away with bilking the secret service for staying in their hotels and resort properties.

Not to mention foreign governments seeking "favors ", as well as lobbyists pushing for their business interests. 

But I do agree that corruption exists in all countries and cultures. Money makes the world go round. 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

The former President's son-in-law got 2 BILLION DOLLARS from Saudi Arabia to manage money he has zero experience in doing so!

After they have sided with the Prince and he has had back channel, untraceable contact with the Prince

That is massive corruption on a scale that is unimagable and we are going to look down on Thailand?

I think as you say Marc, that may well be true in North America but it certainly isn’t anything like on that scale in the U.K. and most other European countries. Of course it happens, but it’s rare and there are so many independent audits taking place and so many legal hoops to jump trough to award large government contracts with high levels of oversight, that it’s simply not worth it. 
 

The corruption scandal with Rolls Royce and Thai air away I believe was uncovered by the U.K. Serious afraid Office. 
 

I dare not even accept a bottle of whiskey from a contractor at work for the past 15 or more years without declaring it. In fact such practices are few and far between now. Even to accept a corporate day out at the FA cup final requires multiple levels of sign off. 

[Marc26]

5 minutes ago, Soidog said:

 

I dare not even accept a bottle of whiskey from a contractor at work for the past 15 or more years without declaring it. In fact such practices are few and far between now. Even to accept a corporate day out at the FA cup final requires multiple levels of sign off. 

Yes same in my industry

 

I cover all the big US banks and a lot of them can't go to any function unless there is a panel attached