News Forum - Are you a digital nomad? Or just on the run?

[Thaiger]

I guess it is an age thing. As someone who left the parental home as soon as he could and headed for “as far away as possible,” I have serious misgivings about digital nomads. Do they themselves even know what a nomad is? Well, let me tell you… A nomad has no “home” to “go back” to, or even to come from. They are, and let’s not split hairs here, nomadic. The pandemic changed a lot, including the near extinction of these so-called nomads, who, at the slightest cough from the next table, slipped their Airbooks into their mega-huge, meta-tech […]

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[Wombo1]

I think that Jon Whitman does not understand that a Digital Nomad and a Remote Worker are actually different types of people.

Also that BOI does understand that they are specifically targeting the Remote Worker.

Is that the right decision, well that is a totally different question.

[Andreasx]

The BOI didn’t create a digital nomad visa, that is wishful thinking from the media and bloggers. It is clearly called the “work from Thailand professionals” visa that is for the person that works for a Fortune 500 company that is able to work from the beautiful country of Thailand and not from a miserable cubicle with a 2 hour commute through the snow. 
The visas are all geared to people spending a fair amount of money, they are not pretending it is anything different. Might not hit their target, but it is a starting point. 

[Soidog]

  On 10/15/2022 at 4:20 AM, Andreasx said:

The BOI didn’t create a digital nomad visa, that is wishful thinking from the media and bloggers. It is clearly called the “work from Thailand professionals” visa that is for the person that works for a Fortune 500 company that is able to work from the beautiful country of Thailand and not from a miserable cubicle with a 2 hour commute through the snow. 
The visas are all geared to people spending a fair amount of money, they are not pretending it is anything different. Might not hit their target, but it is a starting point. 

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I agree with the comments relating to the visa, but I miss your point in saying it’s better than a 2 hour commute in the snow etc?  Why would someone who can work from Thailand even need to go in to the office. They wouldn’t have a 2 hour commute or sit in a small cubicle. They can relax in their beautiful home that they would be able to afford. Or they could head off to Florida or California if American, or Southern Italy or Spain if they are from Europe. Why would they travel 6,000 or 12,000 miles to live in Thailand?  It’s not for the cheaper living as they don’t need that. It’s not for the better health care as they can afford their own. It’s not for the weather either as it’s mostly too wet or too hot apart from 3 months of the year. It’s not even for the beautiful young women as even in the US or Europe a rich guy can still get a beautiful woman. I’m wondering which rich working professional would want this? In addition, don’t these work from home types have to do video conference calls from time to time. Not easy with a 6 to 12 hour time difference to consider. It may attract some Aussies or Japanese who are closer, but I can’t see hundreds of thousands of smart work from home professionals paying for the privilege to work from home in Thailand. Not with these costs and risks involved. 

[Guest1]

  On 10/15/2022 at 4:48 AM, Soidog said:

I agree with the comments relating to the visa, but I miss your point in saying it’s better than a 2 hour commute in the snow etc?  Why would someone who can work from Thailand even need to go in to the office. They wouldn’t have a 2 hour commute or sit in a small cubicle. They can relax in their beautiful home that they would be able to afford. Or they could head off to Florida or California if American, or Southern Italy or Spain if they are from Europe. Why would they travel 6,000 or 12,000 miles to live in Thailand?  It’s not for the cheaper living as they don’t need that. It’s not for the better health care as they can afford their own. It’s not for the weather either as it’s mostly too wet or too hot apart from 3 months of the year. It’s not even for the beautiful young women as even in the US or Europe a rich guy can still get a beautiful woman. I’m wondering which rich working professional would want this? In addition, don’t these work from home types have to do video conference calls from time to time. Not easy with a 6 to 12 hour time difference to consider. It may attract some Aussies or Japanese who are closer, but I can’t see hundreds of thousands of smart work from home professionals paying for the privilege to work from home in Thailand. Not with these costs and risks involved. 

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Tax avoidance strategies playing a big role, in the "digital nomad" livestyle. And if that will work so well with these special kind visas? Time will tell

[Soidog]

  On 10/15/2022 at 5:27 AM, Guest1 said:

Tax avoidance strategies playing a big role, in the "digital nomad" livestyle. And if that will work so well with these special kind visas? Time will tell

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Yes I agree that tax avoidance is a key factor. But again, aren’t there places with better climates and just as beautiful beaches and more high end facilities that offer good tax breaks? I hear the Caymen Islands and Bermuda are great tax avoidance locations and don’t look too shabby…

[Guest1]

  On 10/15/2022 at 5:48 AM, Soidog said:

I hear the Caymen Islands and Bermuda are great tax avoidance locations and don’t look too shabby…

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Oh, they are. But assumingly not first choice for people with just about 80-100k income (pre tax). More for people with 80-100k  a month or a day!

[3ben]

This kind of resentful tone from old expats never fails to amuse. They don't like the competition, big whoop, or the wave of young westerners they know is coming. The pandemic, far from wiping out DMs cancelled the requirements of visa hopping, and paved they way for "digital nomad" visas, and vastly expanded remote work. The pandemic was the best thing to ever happen to DMs. The world is our oyster now. 

And yes, we know we are not primitive nomadic sheepherders. But what we are is here to stay, coming to your local bar soon. 

[Cabra]

DM is probably more hype than reality at the moment. The term digital nomad gets through around so much to almost lose it's meaning. Sure, more people are nomadic than ever, and more people can work remotely than ever before. But choosing to live in a different country is not for just anyone. Life is not what you see on IG or read about online. Nothing is perfect. And just like before all this DM hype, people dreamt of retiring on the beach. Most didn't or don't. 

[Janneman]

Digital nomads and remote workers are not the same. Even though they have a lot in common. Biggest difference is the travelling I guess.

Digital nomads are more or less young people, mostly recently graduated, earning their income via the internet by doing various tasks for small or big companies. They are not employed for life, just hired to do a specific task for a few weeks or months. And they perform that task from any nice location they can think of. Thailand, Bali, Canary islands, Madeira, the list is endless. They travel a lot, financed by the payments they get for their work. Eventually most will settle down somewhere.

Nowadays you see a lot of remote workers. Employed for life by a (usually) bigger company. But they can do their work from any place in the world just as long as there is internet. These people tend to go to one country, and more or less settle there. But they keep working for the company back in their home country. And they usually also keep a house or an appartment in their home country.

Lots of countries introduced digital nomad visa, allowing you to stay 6-24 months. Thailand also introduced it, but it is aimed not at digital nomads, but at remote workers. Most digital nomads simply do not meet the qualifications for the Thai DN visa. Like it or not, that's how it is. So Thailand will get the remote workers. They will also get digital nomads, on a tourist visa. And a lot of digital nomads will travel on, to other destinations where the visa qualifications are different. Singapore? Mauritius? Cape Verde? Colombia? At least 50 more countries to pick from.

[Gerardinho]

  On 10/15/2022 at 11:23 AM, Janneman said:

Digital nomads and remote workers are not the same. Even though they have a lot in common. Biggest difference is the travelling I guess.

Digital nomads are more or less young people, mostly recently graduated, earning their income via the internet by doing various tasks for small or big companies. They are not employed for life, just hired to do a specific task for a few weeks or months. And they perform that task from any nice location they can think of. Thailand, Bali, Canary islands, Madeira, the list is endless. They travel a lot, financed by the payments they get for their work. Eventually most will settle down somewhere.

Nowadays you see a lot of remote workers. Employed for life by a (usually) bigger company. But they can do their work from any place in the world just as long as there is internet. These people tend to go to one country, and more or less settle there. But they keep working for the company back in their home country. And they usually also keep a house or an appartment in their home country.

Lots of countries introduced digital nomad visa, allowing you to stay 6-24 months. Thailand also introduced it, but it is aimed not at digital nomads, but at remote workers. Most digital nomads simply do not meet the qualifications for the Thai DN visa. Like it or not, that's how it is. So Thailand will get the remote workers. They will also get digital nomads, on a tourist visa. And a lot of digital nomads will travel on, to other destinations where the visa qualifications are different. Singapore? Mauritius? Cape Verde? Colombia? At least 50 more countries to pick from.

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You seem to have the same misunderstanding as Thai authorities when it comes to remote workers. Your definition of digital nomads is inaccurate: not all of them are young professionals doing lower-skilled work. Freelancers with many years of experience can also be qualified as "digital nomads"; they find new work every few months, get paid quite decently but are self-employed. Since they are self-employed they can manage their own tax affairs and are able to spend extended periods of time outside of their "country of residence for tax purposes" (the official term) with few to no restrictions.

"Remote workers", by your definition, are fully-fledged employees of Western companies. These people cannot stay in Thailand, or anywhere else for that matter, for longer than 6 months and 1 day in a single year. This is again for tax reasons, and their hiring company will not allow them to. This is  because after 6 months, the country of residence becomes the country of residence for tax purposes. That isn't something an American or European company can or will deal with since it would require them to hire them under a Thai contract and declare taxes in Thailand. Therefore, "remote workers" as you define them, do not exist, at least not legally.

Thailand's rules would favour "remote workers" as you defined them, but since such workers cannot legally exist, they will not attract anybody. Those with the legal flexibility to do this, "digital nomads", will not be able to take advantage of this visa due to the ridiculous requirements. I would therefore argue that "digital nomad" and "remote workers" are the same thing.

To summarise: this new visa is a damp squib, those who meet the financial and contractual requirements cannot legally apply, and those who can legally apply (e.g. freelancers) will not meet the contractual requirements of being employed.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Gerardinho

[Guest1]

  On 10/15/2022 at 4:07 PM, Gerardinho said:

Thailand's rules would favour "remote workers" as you defined them, but since such workers cannot legally exist,

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They do, or can/could exist, at least, for a couple of countries of origin:

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

Just , imho, the main reason for digital nomads or "remote working" (from Thailand, elsewhere, p.ex.), or living in Thailand and working, p.ex. terms offshore , that is: Tax avoiding.

[Marc26]

I couldn't imagine going through life as miserable and negative as John Whitman

What a miserable life he must have......