News Forum - Thailand’s 5 national parks raise entry fees for foreigners by 100%

[Tim_Melb]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:09 PM, Cabra said:

Would just like to point out that the 7 day individual pass to Yosemite national park (in CA, USA) is the equivalent to 350 baht. Given the latest increase, the pricing structure here seems out of wack (in context). 

In what way out of wack? Entry to Yosemite 350 baht, average price for entry to a national park in Thailand 350 baht. Seems reasonable to me. Sure half price for locals seems a litte irritating but it's not unreasonable considering the difference in average income between Thailand and Western countries. 

[Cabra]

1 hour ago, Tim_Melb said:

In what way out of wack? Entry to Yosemite 350 baht, average price for entry to a national park in Thailand 350 baht. Seems reasonable to me. Sure half price for locals seems a litte irritating but it's not unreasonable considering the difference in average income between Thailand and Western countries. 

Sure. Doi Luang National Park and Yosemite are about the same size. I was simply looking at it from the POV that for ~350 baht you get a 7 day pass in Yosemite (vs. 400 for 1 day at Doi Luang). 

[cowslip]

On 10/6/2022 at 12:09 PM, Cabra said:

Would just like to point out that the 7 day individual pass to Yosemite national park (in CA, USA) is the equivalent to 350 baht. Given the latest increase, the pricing structure here seems out of wack (in context). 

..and the Thai park fees are technically for one day!

[cowslip]

As said before the initial reporting is wrong - the prices of all parks were set in June - there's only one appears to have increased since and that is by 25%.

this doesn't detract from how appalling these dual pricing differentials are and it has been indicated before that they don't help with NP funding.

As for "other countries" doing the same - very few practice a differential of several hundred percent.

Many offer discounts for locals , students elderly etc. It has been suggested that Thai people would accept an increase of 50% to 100% on their feed and if foreigners paid the same as them the financing of the parks from the public sector would improve.

the government funds some of the money for national parks, but although proudly opening many over the last 3 decades, there has been virtually now increase in overall funding. The pittance paid to rangers etc means they are very open to bribery and corruption. Te lack of funds also means that environmental protection measures are minimal too

,...and technically the entry fee is for one day - which for a family of 4 is comparable to a 4 star hotel.

The effect of dual pricing is to deter visitors from using the parks - this may seem a good idea but as thousands of Thai people still go in, the difference in terms of damage etc is negligible. Anyone who runs an attraction knows that the entry fee needs to be as low as possible to attract numbers - the money is taken INSIDE with added value charges - food, equipment, souvenirs tours etc.

 

 

 

[Thommo]

On 10/7/2022 at 8:16 PM, Marc26 said:

Why is it BS?

99 % of farang are on extended temporary visas, that's a fact

So a person willingly moved to a country on a temporary visa, yet wants to be treated as it's their home

It's not...............you are a temporary resident

I am a temporary resident in Canada, I pay more in taxes than 90% of Canadian citizens, but I am temporary

it was a statement without any data to substantiate it  that why I call BS

If you show if the data then I would happy to admit error   writing a comment here does make it fact

I do not consider retired etc visa and work permits temporary as they are renewable

Life is temporary

 

[Marc26]

25 minutes ago, Thommo said:

it was a statement without any data to substantiate it  that why I call BS

If you show if the data then I would happy to admit error   writing a comment here does make it fact

I do not consider retired etc visa and work permits temporary as they are renewable

Life is temporary

Renewable as in "not permanent "

 

You are temporary, nothing more.....that's a fact 

 

So don't expect to be treated otherwise when you willingly accepted being temporary 

[JamesR]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:50 AM, Soidog said:

That’s exactly why they voice their opinions on this forum. Thank you for reenforcing my point. If expats did have a voice (as many do in western countries) then there may perhaps be less complaining on this forum? 

No, even when the subject is light and not about costs etc and is a positive article there are many willing to moan and come up with some negative aspects.

I suppose many are stuck in a financial situation, they were 'rich' by local standards when they arrived twenty years ago but are now not in that situation and not able to return home due to the huge increases in house prices for example so blame it all on the rest of the world.

I have come across such people in Phuket but most people are positive and enjoy life, I like the fact Phuket is more expensive than many parts of Thailand as it keep the moaning 'expats' away.

 

[cowslip]

On 10/7/2022 at 2:16 PM, Marc26 said:

99 % of farang are on extended temporary visas, that's a fact

I'd like to see you back that up with some evidence

[Soidog]

9 minutes ago, JamesR said:

No, even when the subject is light and not about costs etc and is a positive article there are many willing to moan and come up with some negative aspects.

I suppose many are stuck in a financial situation, they were 'rich' by local standards when they arrived twenty years ago but are now not in that situation and not able to return home due to the huge increases in house prices for example so blame it all on the rest of the world.

I have come across such people in Phuket but most people are positive and enjoy life, I like the fact Phuket is more expensive than many parts of Thailand as it keep the moaning 'expats' away.

I can’t disagree with that @JamesR  As I said in a post to @Marc26 some people wouldn’t be happy in paradise. I also said something similar to you, in that I think many expats got old and not as rich as they were when they arrived. 
 

It’s often difficult to compartmentalise your views about Thailand. There is no doubt that there is a lot worthy of complaint, as there is in any country. It’s about finding the balance. With most news outlets finding negative news more newsworthy than positive news, then on balance most comments are likely to follow. A sad reflection on modern times perhaps. 
 

I generally have no problem with people who complain. Even if I don’t always agree, most complaints are said in the hope things will change and improve. Little hope , but perhaps it makes people feel better getting it off their chest? 

[JamesR]

4 minutes ago, cowslip said:

I'd like to see you back that up with some evidence

I supposed it is based on anecdotal evidence as is mine, of the thousands of farangs I have met over the decades I do not know of any with a permanent residency visa.

How many do you know?

Ask around and I bet you do not know any farang with a permanent visa or other document,  I bet all the farangs you know are on temporary visas.

Let us know.

[cowslip]

41 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I supposed it is based on anecdotal evidence as is mine, of the thousands of farangs I have met over the decades I do not know of any with a permanent residency visa.

How many do you know?

Ask around and I bet you do not know any farang with a permanent visa or other document,  I bet all the farangs you know are on temporary visas.

Let us know.

people make the mistake of looking at their visa and wording issued by the Thai government rather than the real/practical situation of foreigners - those who work or retire here long term are to all intents and purposes immigrants  and tax payers.- regardless of what the Thai government decides to call them. I do have a few friends with residency, I thought about it about 10 years ago and decided that the advantages were too few to warrant the hassle - you are still monitored by the Thai government etc.

I had B visas that were extended with the job so same visa for 10 to 20 years or more  is quite possible.

 

I should also point out that up until about 8 years ago, if I showed my WP{/Tax doc or something like that I would be allowed  in a "locals rates". In fact usually just chatting to the rangers was enough to get in. Nowadays (up to pre-covid) I could still talk my way in on occasions but it is without a doubt much harder.

Kaeng Krachan used to have a sign outside the rangers office telling foreigners if they had a WP they could get in at the lower rate - that of course was taken down.

The situation has been criticised for decades but the DNP has stubbornly resisted change, ignoring all the advice. They also continue to make other bizarre decisions around the country.

Not all NPs are the same. They differ is size, character and running costs yet the charges don't rationally reflect any of this. They are a National Heritage and as a tourist destination Thailand should be looking after them and promoting them. Instead they just begrudgingly let tourist in at grossly inflated prices - hardly a good public image exercise

Edited October 10, 2022 by cowslip

[cowslip]

53 minutes ago, JamesR said:

I supposed it is based on anecdotal evidence as is mine, of the thousands of farangs I have met over the decades I do not know of any with a permanent residency visa.

How many do you know?

Ask around and I bet you do not know any farang with a permanent visa or other document,  I bet all the farangs you know are on temporary visas.

Let us know.

  

[longwood50]

Lets see tourism is in the tank businesses are failing and VAT from foreigners is falling like a rock because of lack of tourists.  I have an idea.  Lets promote foreign pricing at Thai hotels, impose a entry fee for foreigners to visit Thailand and double the price of entry to the Thai National Parks.  That ought to do it. 

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, cowslip said:

people make the mistake of looking at their visa and wording issued by the Thai government rather than the real/practical situation of foreigners - those who work or retire here long term are to all intents and purposes immigrants  and tax payers.- regardless of what the Thai government decides to call them. I do have a few friends with residency, I thought about it about 10 years ago and decided that the advantages were too few to warrant the hassle - you are still monitored by the Thai government etc.

I had B visas that were extended with the job so same visa for 10 to 20 years or more  is quite possible.

I should also point out that up until about 8 years ago, if I showed my WP{/Tax doc or something like that I would be allowed  in a "locals rates". In fact usually just chatting to the rangers was enough to get in. Nowadays (up to pre-covid) I could still talk my way in on occasions but it is without a doubt much harder.

Kaeng Krachan used to have a sign outside the rangers office telling foreigners if they had a WP they could get in at the lower rate - that of course was taken down.

The situation has been criticised for decades but the DNP has stubbornly resisted change, ignoring all the advice. They also continue to make other bizarre decisions around the country.

Not all NPs are the same. They differ is size, character and running costs yet the charges don't rationally reflect any of this. They are a National Heritage and as a tourist destination Thailand should be looking after them and promoting them. Instead they just begrudgingly let tourist in at grossly inflated prices - hardly a good public image exercise

Do you live in the Kaeng Krachan area?

 

That is where my MIL is from and my wife was born there................

 

We are going in December

 

 

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

Do you live in the Kaeng Krachan area?

That is where my MIL is from and my wife was born there................

We are going in December

I've visited KK on several occasions, resorts, camped, 4x4'd up to the top on a few occasions. Boated on the lake and kayaked there. Did a birthday there and a New Year.

December is good - the summit is loved by twitchers - often above the clouds, it is famous for watching migrating raptors.

Edited October 10, 2022 by cowslip

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, longwood50 said:

Lets see tourism is in the tank businesses are failing and VAT from foreigners is falling like a rock because of lack of tourists.  I have an idea.  Lets promote foreign pricing at Thai hotels, impose a entry fee for foreigners to visit Thailand and double the price of entry to the Thai National Parks.  That ought to do it. 

Tourism is increasing - it fell as a result of Covid. This year the numbers are a quarter of what they were pre-covid but the trend is up.

It is hampered by the number of businesses, big and small that went under during Covid and now will take a while to recover.

apart from China which still seems to rely on lock downs, the worldwide demand is tere - its just a matter of things getting going. 

Another problem is the war , energy crisis and inflation. This may reduce te amount of disposable income and again restrict the tourism markets.

[Marc26]

15 minutes ago, cowslip said:

I've visited KK on several occasions, resorts, camped, 4x4'd up to the top on a few occasions. Boated on the lake and kayaked there. Did a birthday there and a New Year.

December is good - the summit is loved by twitchers - often above the clouds, it is famous for watching migrating raptors.

Thanks, we have only stayed in KK area for 1 night right after the tsunami and a couple visits to her old village on the way to Cha Am/HH

 

But I am looking forward to spending a few days and roaming around the area more

[Marc26]

13 minutes ago, cowslip said:

Tourism is increasing - it fell as a result of Covid. This year the numbers are a quarter of what they were pre-covid but the trend is up.

It is hampered by the number of businesses, big and small that went under during Covid and now will take a while to recover.

apart from China which still seems to rely on lock downs, the worldwide demand is tere - its just a matter of things getting going. 

Another problem is the war , energy crisis and inflation. This may reduce te amount of disposable income and again restrict the tourism markets.

I am very interested to see how Xmas/NY, January is after being there in May and June this year

 

I loved it last visit, busy enough that plenty of places to go to, but quiet and peaceful with some resorts being almost empty

[cowslip]

Xmas NYE is much drier....I take a 4x4 and do the trails. In May and June much of the park can be closed.

A good thing about that area is you can stay or cap out side the park and don't have to pay the fees until you go in.

The track to the summit  (Phenoen Thung Viewpoint) was closed for repairs last time I went but it was a few yews back so I assume it is now open again and sadly probably metalled. They used to operate a one way system - up fr a coupe of hours and then down. I don't suppose that is needed any more.

Motorcycles are not allowed in the park.

there are two campsites on the main trail - one halfway and the other at the top.

I've just looked on Google maps and it looks like the road has not been altered too much judging by the photos on Google maps.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Phenoen+Thung+Viewpoint/@12.8258018,99.3634501,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMSB81TLLtLCkgiVy4k-wgelDmwitVr8yI14Ej_!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMSB81TLLtLCkgiVy4k-wgelDmwitVr8yI14Ej_%3Dw203-h428-k-no!7i1908!8i4032!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x30fc8943fcfd50b3:0x1bbcaf2e5d005d58!2sKaeng+Krachan+National+Park!8m2!3d12.8847831!4d99.6327196!3m4!1s0x30fc9aababd3293b:0xbddc0f172c7acb51!8m2!3d12.8254301!4d99.3631976?authuser=1#

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by cowslip

[hughcow]

The easy answer is just dont go. When the numbers start dropping the govt will look at it. The truth is most people only boycott what is not inconvenient. Whilst tourists still pour through the door nothing will change. 

[longwood50]

12 hours ago, cowslip said:

Tourism is increasing

Yes but the key word is "increasing"  In the private sector businesses run promotions to increase customer traffic.  They certainly don't charge a fee to enter the store.  The government is being penny wise and pound foolish.  The average tourist spends 3,248 baht per day.  So for each person the government collects 227.26 baht per day.  Common sense tells you that you make more money with more tourists than you do by doubling the national park fee.  If the government was smart, it would be running discount promotions as part of visit Thailand packages to encourage more tourists.  Not only would the government collect more in taxes, the merchants would have cash which they would in turn spend and the government collects 7% VAT on that spending too.  No matter how insignificant you want to do things to encourage travel to Thailand not discourage it. 

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Yes but the key word is "increasing"  In the private sector businesses run promotions to increase customer traffic.  They certainly don't charge a fee to enter the store.  The government is being penny wise and pound foolish.  The average tourist spends 3,248 baht per day.  So for each person the government collects 227.26 baht per day.  Common sense tells you that you make more money with more tourists than you do by doubling the national park fee.  If the government was smart, it would be running discount promotions as part of visit Thailand packages to encourage more tourists.  Not only would the government collect more in taxes, the merchants would have cash which they would in turn spend and the government collects 7% VAT on that spending too.  No matter how insignificant you want to do things to encourage travel to Thailand not discourage it. 

I was referring to tourism in general - it is difficult to find figures for foreigners visiting National Parks - it shouldn't be, it's just a matter of counting tickets. When you said "tank", I assumed you were referring to tourism in Thailand in general.

"Common sense tells you that you make more money with more tourists than you do by doubling the national park fee." - I said this earlier...

I can't see how your are relating this to National Parks. The Fees haven't doubled. They have been around 200 to 400 per park for years. It it a long term and irrational policy....

"As I said earlier this has no benefits for funding National Parks and never has. Thailand has never promoted National parks to foreigners (except some marine parks) and the entrance fees are only part of the funding. the management of national parks is flawed in every aspect, to just funding. Funding is not spree;y from ticket sales there is government funding - it is of course, totally insufficient.

I don't know whether you've ever tried to use an NP web site - they were totally unusable and then without notice, they were discarded and replaced with a new one that is just about as useless as the one it replaced. There is a system for booking cabins in many national parks which is at best a hit and miss affair.

The management of visitors in relation to wildlife and conservation is also verging on disastrous with damage to flora and fauna, people feeding wild animals and encroaching on park land.

Edited October 11, 2022 by cowslip

[longwood50]

45 minutes ago, cowslip said:

I was referring to tourism in general

The article said that fees for National Parks for foreigners were being doubled.  The fact that it is 100 baht 200 baht or 1,000 baht is not germaine.  The ideas floating recently of dual pricing of hotels for foreigners, and an entry fee along with the increase in park fees is inconsistent with how a business would approach increasing traffick.  A tourist attraction does not increase its ticket price with the expectation that somehow that will increase customers.  Likewise, any move no matter how insignificant in price is inconsistent with the goal of trying to make Thailand more attractive.  The government has it eyes on 25 satang coin instead of the 1,000 baht bill.  

Everyone, the government and the local economy would generate far far far more revenue from increased tourism than they ever would from these nuisance fees.  If anything the government should be working with tour operators to give special discounts, and or reduced fees to attractions in the hopes of reviving the flagging tourism market.  Is it improving, yes.  However when you are flat on your back and now start to have a pulse, that is hardly a cause for celebration that the battle to regain tourisim in Thailand is won. 

[cowslip]

48 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

The article said that fees for National Parks for foreigners were being doubled.  The fact that it is 100 baht 200 bah

As I said I questioned the article and posted the pricing announced in June above.

 

Apart from that, you are just reiterating what I've said before - and the "bleeding' obvious".

 

it was suggested years ago that a uniform charging system be introduced. Involving a slight increase on the base rate - that asked for from Thai citizens. The fees should also not be in broad categories but decided on individual park needs and finances.

The government also needs to review their funding of national parks and to raise their care to international standards.

If the parks are properly managed than they can take an increase of visitors, this will bring out an increase in income too.

At present funding is so bad Rangers who are on about 3000 per month aren't even being paid on time.

Thailand is a hub for the international illegal trade in wildlife - both flora and fauna - patching, smuggling encroachment are all common place yet the government apart from the odd press display doesn't consider it important.

[longwood50]

1 minute ago, cowslip said:

As I said I questioned the article and posted the pricing announced in June above.

And which part of raising the costs to visit Thailand is not a good way to increase tourism do you have difficulty in comprehending?  It matters little if if is 10 baht or 1,000 baht.  It matters nothing that the fee is reasonable.  It matters nothing that it might have been part of a comprehensive increase in fees over several years.  A business does not raise its prices and expect customer traffic to increase.  Pretty simple.