News Forum - Foreigners anger Chiang Mai locals for kissing in temple

[Manu]

1 hour ago, Marble-eye said:

But it is offensive to Buddhists, you may not find it offensive Marc but obviously others do, show some respect and ignorance is never any excuse. Personally I find bacon sandwiches delicious but I wouldn't dream of eating one in or around a mosque, because that is the right thing to do.

It is the right thing to do because you know it is. This couple obviously did not so what then? You put yourself in the shoes of the offender, but try the offended. You are a buddhist, a couple had an harmless kiss outisde a temple without knowing it would offend you. As a rational and good human being, would you be offended? I would not. If I had been there, at the most I would have told them politely and I am sure they would have said sorry and not doing it again. But I would not show anger (or even more) on social media for the sake of it. I do not think that is what Buddhism or in fact any religion is meant to be, tolerant and loving.

[Manu]

1 hour ago, Cabra said:

I don't disagree. Not offense to most, and certainly harmless. Probably based on lack of understanding by the couple involved. But to say it does not matter is not true. It matters to many Thai people (they wouldn't do it, or raise their children to do it). The fact most Thai don't want to impose, or involve themselves in other's business, is why more don't speak up. All I'm saying is being culturally and situationally aware is a form of good manners. 

Yeah, I get your point and agree. But then being tolerant and loving is also a form of good manners. And that you can do at all time, unlike being culturally and situationally aware. Not even your own culture you know absolutely everything about.

[Marble-eye]

1 minute ago, Manu said:

It is the right thing to do because you know it is. This couple obviously did not so what then? You put yourself in the shoes of the offender, but try the offended. You are a buddhist, a couple had an harmless kiss outisde a temple without knowing it would offend you. As a rational and good human being, would you be offended? I would not. If I had been there, at the most I would have told them politely and I am sure they would have said sorry and not doing it again. But I would not show anger (or even more) on social media for the sake of it. I do not think that is what Buddhism or in fact any religion is meant to be, tolerant and loving.

This is not about you or I, personally it would not bother me, but other people's customs and cultures matter and we should show all people respect. It has offended some Buddhists and who are we to say what's wrong and what's right, it is their belief, we are guests, use your loaf and as I said ignorance is not an excuse. If you don't know the difference between right and wrong, don't do it, but the way of the world now seems to be orientated around the me me me attitude. Anyway may your God go with you who-ever she is.

 

[Manu]

4 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

This is not about you or I, personally it would not bother me, but other people's customs and cultures matter and we should show all people respect. It has offended some Buddhists and who are we to say what's wrong and what's right, it is their belief, we are guests, use your loaf and as I said ignorance is not an excuse. If you don't know the difference between right and wrong, don't do it, but the way of the world now seems to be orientated around the me me me attitude. Anyway may your God go with you who-ever she is.

Yes you are right, it is about being good or bad human beings by judging other's actions. You are a human being before being religious or a national or a traditional, etc... This couple do not disserve anger (or hate) but tolerance and understanding (and possibly some guiding), like I am sure these angry buddhists (come on, not that many let's be honest) would like to receive from others if they one day find themselves in the same situation in another country with a different culture / religion / traditions. It is impossible to know / learn everything about your own culture, never mind others...

[Marble-eye]

2 minutes ago, Manu said:

Yes you are right, it is about being good or bad human beings by judging other's actions. You are a human being before being religious or a national or a traditional, etc... This couple do not disserve anger (or hate) but tolerance and understanding (and possibly some guiding), like I am sure these angry buddhists (come on, not that many let's be honest) would like to receive from others if they one day find themselves in the same situation in another country with a different culture / religion / traditions. It is impossible to know / learn everything about your own culture, never mind others...

It is not for us to judge, we cannot possibly know how Buddhists react to what they may conceive as inappropriate (in their eyes) behaviour, many Thais find it offensive for other people (foreigners or Thai) to walk about bare chested, up to them, their country.

[Manu]

4 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

It is not for us to judge, we cannot possibly know how Buddhists react to what they may conceive as inappropriate (in their eyes) behaviour, many Thais find it offensive for other people (foreigners or Thai) to walk about bare chested, up to them, their country.

I am not judging the buddhist's actions but the human being's actions, they are humans before being Buddhists, and as a human being myself I have every right to do so like everybody else (that's what people do constantly on this forum for a start, judging Thais and pratically every single possible nationals).

But now come on, look at the picture of the article: so we can guess that a buddhist took a pic of this couple having a harmless kiss, then post it on social media and show anger and hate, instead of going straight to that couple, telling them politely that it is offensive to them, they would have said sorry we did not know and won't do it again, and that would have been it. I am sorry, this is not a very nice human being action. That is all I am saying and I have every right to say so if I want to.

By the way, I showed that pic to my Buddhist partner and she completely agrees.

Quote

many Thais find it offensive for other people (foreigners or Thai) to walk about bare chested, up to them, their country.

Perfect example: I genuinely find that myself offensive too. It does not mean I take pics of them and inusult them on social media cause I am simply a tolerant and understanding human being. And being in your own country does not justify being an A*****.

[Marble-eye]

12 minutes ago, Manu said:

I am not judging the buddhist's actions but the human being's actions, they are humans before being Buddhists, and as a human being myself I have every right to do so like everybody else (that's what people do constantly on this forum for a start, judging Thais and pratically every single possible nationals).

But now come on, look at the picture of the article: so we can guess that a buddhist took a pic of this couple having a harmless kiss, then post it on social media and show anger and hate, instead of going straight to that couple, telling them politely that it is offensive to them, they would have said sorry we did not know and won't do it again, and that would have been it. I am sorry, this is not a very nice human being action. That is all I am saying and I have every right to say so if I want to.

By the way, I showed that pic to my Buddhist partner and she completely agrees.

Perfect example: I genuinely find that myself offensive too. It does not mean I take pics of them and inusult them on social media cause I am simply a tolerant and understanding human being. And being in your own country does not justify being an A*****.

Trust me, you are judging them.

[Cabra]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

Yeah, I get your point and agree. But then being tolerant and loving is also a form of good manners. And that you can do at all time, unlike being culturally and situationally aware. Not even your own culture you know absolutely everything about.

True. What I do know is to be on my best behavior in someone else's home or place of worship. I'm not judging these particular tourist, as I don't know them, and I'm sure they could find fault with me. If anything there probably just misguided or unaware. What I do find odd are those who are dismissive out of hand of cultural mores just because it's not what they would do or what the majority of people they "know" would do (even though it's clearly meaningful to those who are being dismissed). Kindness, respect and understanding goes both ways. Much to do about nothing, perhaps. But maybe someone has learned something as well. 

[Marc26]

5 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

But it is offensive to Buddhists, you may not find it offensive Marc but obviously others do, show some respect and ignorance is never any excuse. Personally I find bacon sandwiches delicious but I wouldn't dream of eating one in or around a mosque, because that is the right thing to do.

Again hald the Buddhist monks are doing way worse than that and it's looked the other way.......

 

And all these Buddhists don't blink an eye at all the sexualization in their culture

 

Just like all religions, all a bunch of hypocrites 

[Marble-eye]

1 minute ago, Marc26 said:

Again hald the Buddhist monks are doing way worse than that and it's looked the other way.......

And all these Buddhists don't blink an eye at all the sexualization in their culture

Just like all religions, all a bunch of hypocrites 

Whatever some Buddhists monks are doing is nothing to do with us, and I emphasise "some" or are you saying that all Buddhists monks are like this. Whether you or I like it or not, this religion here means a lot to many Thais. Respect and manners go a long way in this world but many people don't seem to realise this.

FYI I do not have one religious bone in my body but that doesn't mean that I should scoff at those that do, some people need to understand that, and it's not 'my way or the highway' all the time.

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Marble-eye said:

Whatever some Buddhists monks are doing is nothing to do with us, and I emphasise "some" or are you saying that all Buddhists monks are like this. Whether you or I like it or not, this religion here means a lot to many Thais. Respect and manners go a long way in this world but many people don't seem to realise this.

FYI I do not have one religious bone in my body but that doesn't mean that I should scoff at those that do, some people need to understand that, and it's not 'my way or the highway' all the time.

We are just having a discussion with opinions

 

I'd never disrespect them in actual real life.

 

I am just pointing out the hypocrisy that I think runs all over Thailand in their quest to act like they are modest, when they are mostly not modest at all...............

[Marble-eye]

17 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

We are just having a discussion with opinions

I'd never disrespect them in actual real life.

I am just pointing out the hypocrisy that I think runs all over Thailand in their quest to act like they are modest, when they are mostly not modest at all...............

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I just wonder how many of us really understand the Thai mindset, many may think they do but I feel you have to be born in such a culture to really understand it.

My wife is a devout Buddhist and certainly not a hypocrite and the last thing I would do is to mock her beliefs, infact I encourage her interests and beliefs in her religion and for a non believer I will go through the motions to make her happy, or does that make me a hypocrite, I'd like to think not.

Respect costs nothing but means so much.

[Marc26]

2 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but I just wonder how many of us really understand the Thai mindset, many may think they do but I feel you have to be born in such a culture to really understand it.

My wife is a devout Buddhist and certainly not a hypocrite and the last thing I would do is to mock her beliefs, infact I encourage her interests and beliefs in her religion and for a non believer I will go through the motions to make her happy, or does that make me a hypocrite, I'd like to think not.

Respect costs nothing but means so much.

I am speaking in generalities

Of course there is good devout Buddhists

 

I just think overall, Thailand is very hypocrtitical with their faux outrage over modesty

 

 

I am sure the rich Thai guy who asked me how many wife's I had at a Khao Lak hotel is probably "outraged" at this kiss   :)

 

[Marble-eye]

4 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Of course there is good devout Buddhists

May be those were the ones that got upset Marc.

[Janneman]

On 10/3/2022 at 9:28 AM, Cabra said:

It's a place of worship. No different than any cathedral open to the public in Europe. Don't curse, don't spit, control yourself. Have respect. 

True. I do not know this temple myself, but those tourists are standing in front of it? So outside of it? Or is that outside also considered temple area? If not then it is the same as kissing while standing on a street in front of a church.

[Fanta]

On 10/3/2022 at 3:14 PM, Thaiger said:

A foreign couple enraged… 

enraged : very angry, furious.

That emotion implies a lack of self control and Buddhists don’t like that - jai yen yen and all that stuff. It was a kiss that was photographed and posted to social media and used by some to create a storm in a tea cup for clicks. Big deal - haters gotta hate. 

[Marble-eye]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

enraged : very angry, furious.

That emotion implies a lack of self control and Buddhists don’t like that - jai yen yen and all that stuff. It was a kiss that was photographed and posted to social media and used by some to create a storm in a tea cup for clicks. Big deal - haters gotta hate. 

If you have a problem with buddhism well maybe Thailand is not for you after all. The buddhists will not change their religion just to please you. 

[HolyCowCm]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:29 AM, Cabra said:

Because that's Thai culture... Not to publicly offend or criticize others. But you ask 1000 Thais and 990 would say they wouldn't do it or raise their children to.

I don't think the Thai people care one bit at all. It is an overboard fanatic doing the squawking. Maybe if it was groping in a discusting over the top way for sure, but holding hands or a hug or a peck on the lips they don't care.

[Cabra]

49 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

I don't think the Thai people care one bit at all. It is an overboard fanatic doing the squawking. Maybe if it was groping in a discusting over the top way for sure, but holding hands or a hug or a peck on the lips they don't care.

You many want to speak with more Thai people. Ask any Thai who is a practicing Buddhist (and many who are not) and they will tell you it's forbidden to kiss in the temple. Hard stop. Many will even say the offenders should be warned to avoid future missteps (but do so politely and privately - not on-line or to embarrass). You can rest assured they would reprimand their own children for such behavior. That's good enough for me. On the flip side, Thais are forgiving, and will certainly forgive a Christian for being unaware of temple etiquette, to be sure. Tourist should try harder to be respectful. People need to practice reverence when in someone else's house (of worship). That's the lesson here. That's the point. Hopefully more farangs are paying attention, and will do better. 

[Marc26]

13 hours ago, Cabra said:

You many want to speak with more Thai people. Ask any Thai who is a practicing Buddhist (and many who are not) and they will tell you it's forbidden to kiss in the temple. Hard stop. Many will even say the offenders should be warned to avoid future missteps (but do so politely and privately - not on-line or to embarrass). You can rest assured they would reprimand their own children for such behavior. That's good enough for me. On the flip side, Thais are forgiving, and will certainly forgive a Christian for being unaware of temple etiquette, to be sure. Tourist should try harder to be respectful. People need to practice reverence when in someone else's house (of worship). That's the lesson here. That's the point. Hopefully more farangs are paying attention, and will do better. 

I think(no I know) you are lying if you say you researched and understand all the do's and dont's when you have visited other countries 

 

And this peck was hardly deeply intimate

 

I am with a lot  Thais here in Vancouver on a weekly basis if not more 

And although always respectful in manner, I can tell you they don't understand and offend our culture a hell of lot more than an innocent kiss 

 

But we don't freak out because they aren't being overly offensive with their ignorance 

[jobapps]

regardless of the cultural differences bad manners etc. Thai people dont kiss in public and the amount holding hands i can count on 5 fingers in a year.

Whats really amusing is, they didnt take this photo, they are taking a selfie

So some busy body "netizen" invaded their personal moment and then put their personal image online without their permission.

Now thats something to complain about

[Manu]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:00 AM, Marble-eye said:

Trust me, you are judging them.

Well sorry, no offense, but my own judgement vs an anonymous person's judgement on an online forum, I certainly know who I trust. You just do not understand my point. Another case of agreeing to desagreeing, I guess.

[Cabra]

3 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I think(no I know) you are lying if you say you researched and understand all the do's and dont's when you have visited other countries 

And this peck was hardly deeply intimate

I am with a lot  Thais here in Vancouver on a weekly basis if not more 

And although always respectful in manner, I can tell you they don't understand and offend our culture a hell of lot more than an innocent kiss 

But we don't freak out because they aren't being overly offensive with their ignorance 

I would never claim to have researched all the do's and dont's of every country I visited. But I do try and make a conscious effort to learn what I can. And how poorly someone behaves in my home country is irrelevant to how I behave in theirs. Why would it be?  What I do believe is that temples and churches demand a certain level of reverence when attending (even amongst none believers - of which I'm one). It's simply good manners and respectful. And if you can't do that, or won't, then simply don't enter. That's fine too. if I did error in my behavior, i would certainly live up to that, and try to learn from it. Hopefully some people are learning more about Thai mores from this latest edition of "tourist behaving badly" and working to do better. This situation is not offensive more that it's a teaching moment, that if taken with good intentions, might even put a smile on someone else's face the next time they visit a church or temple. 

[Marble-eye]

3 minutes ago, Cabra said:

I would never claim to have researched all the do's and dont's of every country I visited. But I do try and make a conscious effort to learn what I can. And how poorly someone behaves in my home country is irrelevant to how I behave in theirs. Why would it be?  What I do believe is that temples and churches demand a certain level of reverence when attending (even amongst none believers - of which I'm one). It's simply good manners and respectful. And if you can't do that, or won't, then simply don't enter. That's fine too. if I did error in my behavior, i would certainly live up to that, and try to learn from it. Hopefully some people are learning more about Thai mores from this latest edition of "tourist behaving badly" and working to do better. This situation is not offensive more that it's a teaching moment, that if taken with good intentions, might even put a smile on someone else's face the next time they visit a church or temple. 

Don't worry Cabra, some people wouldn't know what respect was even if they fell over it on the way to the girly bars.

[Manu]

17 hours ago, Cabra said:

You many want to speak with more Thai people. Ask any Thai who is a practicing Buddhist (and many who are not) and they will tell you it's forbidden to kiss in the temple.

The kiss was outside the temple, and not just out of the front door either but away from it on the side it seems, I am pretty certain this couple would have the common sense not to do it inside. Inside the temple or any religious building, it is an obvious case of common sense for everyone, and I am pretty sure this includes this couple too.

Quote

Hopefully more farangs are paying attention, and will do better. 

I believe it is already the case, from my own experience this is what I see. But then everybody can do a mistake cause you can symply not learn and know absolutely everything about someone else's culture and traditions. Humans make mistakes. And when it is the case of a mild genuine one that did not harm anyone or anything, it does not desserve anger and hate like you would like it to be when you are the one who makes the mistake.