News Forum - Ask the Thais – What is ‘greng jai’?, Thai way of greeting, mask-wearing in Thailand

[Thaiger]

https://youtu.be/mtrB3sXO5ts   What is ‘greng jai’?, The Thai way of greeting, mask-wearing in Thailand   Ask The Thais is a show where we ask our Thai friends their opinions and thoughts regarding the cultural differences between Thailand and the west. We also discuss their ideas on current affairs in Thailand. In this episode we discuss the topic of ‘greng jai’, how Thais greet, and why are Thais still stuck to the idea of mask-wearing in public.

The story Ask the Thais – What is ‘greng jai’?, Thai way of greeting, mask-wearing in Thailand as seen on Thaiger News.

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[cowslip]

Conclusion is that these Thai people in the studio cannot actually express what kreng Jai is. Part of the problem is that westerners see it as largely negative, the Thai authorities love it because it keeps the public submissive and the people in the video are too "kreng jai" to actually define it.

Edited September 18, 2022 by cowslip

[Rookiescot]

  On 9/18/2022 at 8:37 AM, cowslip said:

Conclusion is that these Thai people in the studio cannot actually express what kreng Jai is. Part of the problem is that westerners see it as largely negative, the Thai authorities love it because it keeps the public submissive and the people in the video are too "kreng jai" to actually define it.

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So are you "kreng jai" when you wear a seatbelt in the car? Is this also a way of keeping the public submissive?

[cowslip]

  On 9/18/2022 at 8:43 AM, Rookiescot said:

So are you "kreng jai" when you wear a seatbelt in the car? Is this also a way of keeping the public submissive?

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a bizarre question - there is an example of kreng jai I can think of that relates to the wearing of seat belts but you seem to be off at a tangent. I think you need to be more explicit in your question.

[Rookiescot]

  On 9/18/2022 at 8:49 AM, cowslip said:

a bizarre question - there is an example of kreng jai I can think of that relates to the wearing of seat belts but you seem to be off at a tangent. I think you need to be more explicit in your question.

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Read the post I was replying to.

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 9/18/2022 at 8:37 AM, cowslip said:

Conclusion is that these Thai people in the studio cannot actually express what kreng Jai is. Part of the problem is that westerners see it as largely negative, the Thai authorities love it because it keeps the public submissive and the people in the video are too "kreng jai" to actually define it.

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"Kreng jai is being aware of other people's feelings and showing politeness, respect and consideration towards them. It is also tied in with the Thai concept of not wanting to lose face; displaying kreng jai is one way in which one person can help another save face."

From t'internet...

[Cabra]

I find this article useful

https://www.bangkokpost.com/life/social-and-lifestyle/1446319/the-art-of-being-greng-jai

[cowslip]

  On 9/18/2022 at 9:01 AM, TheDirtyDurian said:

"Kreng jai is being aware of other people's feelings and showing politeness, respect and consideration towards them. It is also tied in with the Thai concept of not wanting to lose face; displaying kreng jai is one way in which one person can help another save face."

From t'internet...

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The interesting part there is  saving someone from losing face which a work can lead to really bizarre occurrences. Connect this to the tradition of Sakdina and you start getting near to how it functions.

[cowslip]

  On 9/18/2022 at 9:19 AM, Cabra said:

I find this article useful

https://www.bangkokpost.com/life/social-and-lifestyle/1446319/the-art-of-being-greng-jai

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THis again is crucial - "

[rc1]

At this stage mask wearing is getting past being greng jai. The health concerns are fading so what's left?

Being considerate would be uncovering faces again, allowing better communication and reducing social isolation.

That's more considerate and shows more concern. 

[Chatogaster]

  On 9/18/2022 at 8:43 AM, Rookiescot said:

So [...]

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The obvious answer is No, because the post didn't imply that and therefore whatever follows "So" doesn't make sense.

But ignoring that, it's possibly Yes on both accounts wrt seatbelts.

For part 1 (Kraeng Jai): ignore people who actually think it's safer that way or very much dislike fines. The ones that remain match the "simple patterns having simple (cultural) responses" (aka "going with the flow") aspect of Kraeng Jai. This does not exactly match the definition of Kraeng Jai (whatever it may be), but anyone who values tools like words over concepts and isn't a lawyer has got their priorities messed up.

For part 2 (submissiveness): the more rules there are to govern everyday life, the more people will get used to following them (and, in a Darwinian-like process: the ones that don't follow them get punished, which impels them to conform/submit). Submissiveness is not necessarily a goal, but it's certainly an effect.

I wouldn't call wearing seatbelts an example of Kraeng Jai or an inducement to submissiveness (there are much better examples than that), but it's not as self-evident as you may think.

[cowslip]

  On 9/18/2022 at 9:59 AM, rc1 said:

At this stage mask wearing is getting past being greng jai

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THere's te rub! Foreigners don't even begin to understand Kreng Jai.

[cowslip]

  On 9/18/2022 at 11:46 AM, Chatogaster said:

For part 1 (Kraeng Jai): ignore people who actually think it's safer that way or very much dislike fines.

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that's why I didn't respond - it's kreng jai not to......

however, if I was in a car and my boss was not wearing a seat belt, it would not be kreng jai to tell him to wear one......

Edited September 18, 2022 by cowslip

[palooka]

  On 9/18/2022 at 12:05 PM, cowslip said:

however, if I was in a car and my boss was not wearing a seat belt, it would not be greng jai to tell him to wear one......

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You politely tell him that there are many bad drivers and you are concerned for his welfare, he is your boss and he should appreciate your concerns, Employees are expected to look after the boss.

(Greng Jai reversed)

Greng Jai - showing concern for a persons welfare, respect for the individual, respect for their views, thoughts and beliefs without criticism, total acceptance of who they are as a person.  

Basically say nothing if you disagree, just nod acceptance of their views.

Someone wears a mask, that is them and their beliefs, show respect and show Greng Jai by putting on a mask in their presence to acknowlege their obvious concerns, particularly to the elders. 

It all comes down to one word. Respect.

[cowslip]

  On 9/18/2022 at 1:00 PM, palooka said:

You politely tell him that there are many bad drivers and you are concerned for his welfare, he is your boss and he should appreciate your concerns, Employees are expected to look after the boss.

(Greng Jai reversed)

Greng Jai - showing concern for a persons welfare, respect for the individual, respect for their views, thoughts and beliefs without criticism, total acceptance of who they are as a person.  

Basically say nothing if you disagree, just nod acceptance of their views.

Someone wears a mask, that is them and their beliefs, show respect and show Greng Jai by putting on a mask in their presence to acknowlege their obvious concerns, particularly to the elders. 

It all comes down to one word. Respect.

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Nope - wrong end of the stick - you're overlooking the Thai Sakdina-based hierarchical system. It's no good trying to put a Western spin on it.

[Marc26]

Here's a take

I think Asians pat themselves on the back for things that the rest of the world who were brought up well and taught manners do as well.

Yes, I think Asians disposition make for a pleasant society 

But some of the things they harp on are just common manners that most well brought up people practice 

[Skip]

Thais have Kreng Jai... Westerners have the Golden Rule... Some practice them some don't

[cowslip]

  On 9/18/2022 at 8:12 PM, Marc26 said:

Here's a take

I think Asians pat themselves on the back for things that the rest of the world who were brought up well and taught manners do as well.

Yes, I think Asians disposition make for a pleasant society 

But some of the things they harp on are just common manners that most well brought up people practice 

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I see you perceive the world in terms of race, you have a very western-orientated take. Pity you can't think outside the box

Edited September 19, 2022 by cowslip

[Marc26]

  On 9/19/2022 at 7:02 AM, cowslip said:

I see you perceive the world in terms of race, you have a very western-orientated take. Pity you can't think outside the box

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I perceive the world as learned experiences 

I've been all over Asia, and been with a Thai for almost 20 years 

[Marc26]

  On 9/19/2022 at 12:27 PM, Marc26 said:

I perceive the world as learned experiences 

I've been all over Asia, and been with a Thai for almost 20 years 

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By the way, I am not saying I know all, I know very little actually

Just going by what I observed

I think Asians tend to think they have a culture that no one else possibly could have 

I also think Asians demand foreigners abide and know their culture when Asians show very little interest in doing the same when in other countries

I enjoy and respect other cultures but I think if you were brought up well and have good manners, just act as you would anywhere and you will get by just fine........

[cowslip]

  On 9/19/2022 at 12:27 PM, Marc26 said:

I perceive the world as learned experiences 

I've been all over Asia, and been with a Thai for almost 20 years 

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in the wrong hands "learned experiences can have little value or even be misleading - I have found it quite common for people to live for a long time in Thailand and "learn" very little - unfortunately there is no substitute for critical thinking

[HiuMak]

  On 9/18/2022 at 9:01 AM, TheDirtyDurian said:

"Kreng jai is being aware of other people's feelings and showing politeness, respect and consideration towards them. It is also tied in with the Thai concept of not wanting to lose face; displaying kreng jai is one way in which one person can help another save face."

From t'internet...

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They don't have it that is why they enacted this custom or practise to save face. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 9/19/2022 at 3:45 PM, cowslip said:

in the wrong hands "learned experiences can have little value or even be misleading - I have found it quite common for people to live for a long time in Thailand and "learn" very little - unfortunately there is no substitute for critical thinking

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Any other pearls of wisdom you'd like to share wise one?

[cowslip]

  On 9/20/2022 at 3:29 AM, TheDirtyDurian said:

Any other pearls of wisdom you'd like to share wise one?

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your response says it all.

[TheDirtyDurian]

  On 9/20/2022 at 8:18 AM, cowslip said:

your response says it all.

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As did yours ...