News Forum - US, China, UK account for 45% of the 400 LTR visa applications

[Thaiger]

With the new long-term resident visa that launched on September 1, the government predicted one million rich foreigners expected to take part. In the first 12 days, the LTR visa applications began slowly rolling in, with about 400 people applying so far, mostly pensioners. Officials are framing the applicants so far as a glimpse of what’s to come as the programme gains traction. The deputy secretary-general of the Board of Investment gave an interview in Bangkok where he confirmed that about 40% of the people who have applied for the LTR visa were retirees. Another 30% of applicants were digital […]

The story US, China, UK account for 45% of the 400 LTR visa applications as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Janneman]

So 33 a day is 1.000 a month. At this rate it will take 83 years to reach the 1 million target.

But it's a start, 33 applications a day. Only applications of course, how many were approved? And mostly retirees, how many highly skilled foreign expats? Digital nomads?

 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Thaiger said:

The remaining 30% were split between wealthy global citizens and highly-skilled professionals.

Is this lot the influx of foreign criminals the RTP are expecting? 

[FarangandEarnest]

I'm willing to bet 90% of applicants are already living/working in Thailand under different visa schemes so probably not adding much extra to the economy.

[Marc26]

8 hours ago, Janneman said:

So 33 a day is 1.000 a month. At this rate it will take 83 years to reach the 1 million target.

But it's a start, 33 applications a day. Only applications of course, how many were approved? And mostly retirees, how many highly skilled foreign expats? Digital nomads?

I don't know about highly skilled, but go to Suk 11 in Bangkok or anywhere else that attracts a younger crowd and the Digital nomads are in Thailand, in abundance

 

So I guess it's just tailoring the visas that makes it work for them and also, for Thailand

[Janneman]

2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I don't know about highly skilled, but go to Suk 11 in Bangkok or anywhere else that attracts a younger crowd and the Digital nomads are in Thailand, in abundance

So I guess it's just tailoring the visas that makes it work for them and also, for Thailand

Well, no. Those digital nomads do not work for at least the last 3 years for a company with > 100m dollar turnover. So they do not qualify for this LTR visa. Most likely they use some kind of tourist visa.

Some easy countries for digital nomads? Mauritius, Colombia, Cape Verde. Bali and New Zealand too I think. But New Zealand used to have a 50 year age limit.

[Marc26]

7 minutes ago, Janneman said:

Well, no. Those digital nomads do not work for at least the last 3 years for a company with > 100m dollar turnover. So they do not qualify for this LTR visa. Most likely they use some kind of tourist visa.

Some easy countries for digital nomads? Mauritius, Colombia, Cape Verde. Bali and New Zealand too I think. But New Zealand used to have a 50 year age limit.

That is why I said this......

 

So I guess it's just tailoring the visas that makes it work for them and also, for Thailand

 

 

The DN's are in Thailand, the country just needs to decide if they want them...........

[Janneman]

14 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

That is why I said this......

So I guess it's just tailoring the visas that makes it work for them and also, for Thailand

The DN's are in Thailand, the country just needs to decide if they want them...........

Oh yes, sorry. English isnt my best foreign language. They tailored the visa to attract the very wealthy. Most DN's work for themselves, or take a specific short term task from smaller companies. They earn enough to live, but most dont make it to the 80k dollar which is needed.

[Marc26]

24 minutes ago, Janneman said:

Oh yes, sorry. English isnt my best foreign language. They tailored the visa to attract the very wealthy. Most DN's work for themselves, or take a specific short term task from smaller companies. They earn enough to live, but most dont make it to the 80k dollar which is needed.

Yes for sure

 

And it's early stages, and Thailand may not care to compete

 

But I was shocked how many young farang were "living" in Bangkok now

They are obviously working, but not officially, a lot of them

 

And yes, those countries you mentioned are ahead of the game

 

I met a guy last year and he was headed to Barbados on a very generous visa..............

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, Janneman said:

Oh yes, sorry. English isnt my best foreign language. They tASmaller companies. They earn enough to live, but most dont make it to the 80k dollar which is needed.

As I said in another thread

 

I went to a conference in Dallas last week, I work in the stock market

 

Even with half my desk working from home, I was shocked at how many people are WFH and doubly so, how many are working remotely far away from the office

 

The world changed drastically from Covid, so countries will have to adapt

[Janneman]

I totally agree. The 'traditional' DN is a young person, usually recently graduated. They take on jobs, tasks, which require like 1-6 months to complete, and that can be done 100% online from anywhere in the world. They earn enough money to live, travel, visit different countries and so on. Now with remote working, those people are usually employed by a larger company. They have a steady job, they earn more, and they found out it is just as easy to work from Thailand as it is from their office in say Birmingham Alabama. They are a different type of DN I guess. But that's a semantic thing.

And yes, countries will have to adapt. Most are doing so now. Some are very easy-going, Thailand is a bit more difficult. But in 10 or 20 years most countries will have more or less similar rules for DN's. 

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, Janneman said:

I totally agree. The 'traditional' DN is a young person, usually recently graduated. They take on jobs, tasks, which require like 1-6 months to complete, and that can be done 100% online from anywhere in the world. They earn enough money to live, travel, visit different countries and so on. Now with remote working, those people are usually employed by a larger company. They have a steady job, they earn more, and they found out it is just as easy to work from Thailand as it is from their office in say Birmingham Alabama. They are a different type of DN I guess. But that's a semantic thing.

And yes, countries will have to adapt. Most are doing so now. Some are very easy-going, Thailand is a bit more difficult. But in 10 or 20 years most countries will have more or less similar rules for DN's. 

I guess that was my point and why I was so shocked, even though 75% of the floor I work on all WFH

 

I live and work in Canada but lived and worked out of Boston last summer

 

I can do that at will now for months at a time

 

I am just now trying to push it to do so in Thailand

 

Then possibly push it to full time

 

I would qualify under the LTR visa 

[Cabra]

13 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I don't know about highly skilled, but go to Suk 11 in Bangkok or anywhere else that attracts a younger crowd and the Digital nomads are in Thailand, in abundance

So I guess it's just tailoring the visas that makes it work for them and also, for Thailand

The employment contract and employer revenue/listing requirements don't seem like something a blogger, influencer, (YouTubers, IG, TikTok) or self employed nomad would likely meet. Certainly not a problem if you hold a legit job that allows to work from Thailand. 

Overall, I think this scheme is designed a bit too narrowly to draw much interest.

Wealthy retirees are still better off with a 20 year Thai elite visa (in my opinion).

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thailand-long-term-resident-ltr-visa

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, Cabra said:

The employment contract and employer revenue/listing requirements don't seem like something a blogger, influencer, (YouTubers, IG, TikTok) or self employed nomad would likely meet. Certainly not a problem if you hold a legit job that allows to work from Thailand. 

Overall, I think this scheme is designed a bit too narrowly to draw much interest.

Wealthy retirees are still better off with a 20 year Thai elite visa (in my opinion).

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/thailand-long-term-resident-ltr-visa

Yeah for sure

 

My point is they are already  there in Thailand 

(And I also think more young farang actually working for companies in Thailand)

 

So if the DN's are already there in abundance than Thailand would be better off adjusting their visas to accommodate them, since it certainly looks like that is the way the world is going 

[Cabra]

There is also a tax angle to consider... What's  interesting about the LTR visa is Thailand says it will cap taxes on your income at 18% (yes, there is a money grab beyond the application fee).

However, If your country doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand you still end up getting double taxed (by THA and your home country).

If you are US citizen (particularly one of the wealthy ones being targeted by this scheme) you should read the treaty carefully:

Taxes Covered

The Convention will apply ONLY to income taxes. Applicable United States taxes will EXCLUDED the social security tax. In Thailand, however, the Convention will apply to BOTH the general income tax and the petroleum income tax.

 

[palooka]

2 hours ago, Cabra said:

There is also a tax angle to consider... What's  interesting about the LTR visa is Thailand says it will cap taxes on your income at 18% (yes, there is a money grab beyond the application fee).

However, If your country doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand you still end up getting double taxed (by THA and your home country).

If you are US citizen (particularly one of the wealthy ones being targeted by this scheme) you should read the treaty carefully:

Taxes Covered

The Convention will apply ONLY to income taxes. Applicable United States taxes will EXCLUDED the social security tax. In Thailand, however, the Convention will apply to BOTH the general income tax and the petroleum income tax.

Also monitor your home country tax laws, they can and will change regularly.

[Marc26]

5 hours ago, Cabra said:

There is also a tax angle to consider... What's  interesting about the LTR visa is Thailand says it will cap taxes on your income at 18% (yes, there is a money grab beyond the application fee).

However, If your country doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand you still end up getting double taxed (by THA and your home country).

If you are US citizen (particularly one of the wealthy ones being targeted by this scheme) you should read the treaty carefully:

Taxes Covered

The Convention will apply ONLY to income taxes. Applicable United States taxes will EXCLUDED the social security tax. In Thailand, however, the Convention will apply to BOTH the general income tax and the petroleum income tax.

I am sure there are plenty of good accountants that will specialize in US taxes, even in Thailand

 

And there are a lot of advantages to living and working overseas as a US Citizen

 

Two are the Foreign earned income exclusion which is $112k

And a big one also is the Foreign Housing Deduction

 

You can write off up to around 50k baht/mo from your rent/housing expenses 

 

 

[Cabra]

16 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I am sure there are plenty of good accountants that will specialize in US taxes, even in Thailand

And there are a lot of advantages to living and working overseas as a US Citizen

Two are the Foreign earned income exclusion which is $112k

And a big one also is the Foreign Housing Deduction

You can write off up to around 50k baht/mo from your rent/housing expenses 

Yep. Hiring a knowledgeable tax accountant is a good idea.

[Marc26]

6 hours ago, Cabra said:

Yep. Hiring a knowledgeable tax accountant is a good idea.

It was my oversight and I am usually good at this

 

But I've been living and working in Canada for 16 years on work permits

 

I didn't realize I could contribute to Canada's sort of pension plan

 

An RRSP 

I've been saving and investing myself 

 

The new accountant I used last year alerted to me that I could actually contribute 

 

I now have $400k I can put into it 

A) I now have $400k I can reduce my taxable income from, so basically getting back a decent amount in tax refunds 

B) I can put that $400k in the RRSP and reduce my tax on it down to 15-20% from my now about 45%, when I take ir out when I am retired

 

So a huge amount of money saved by using that accountant 

[FarangandEarnest]

On 9/15/2022 at 2:51 AM, Janneman said:

I totally agree. The 'traditional' DN is a young person, usually recently graduated. They take on jobs, tasks, which require like 1-6 months to complete, and that can be done 100% online from anywhere in the world. They earn enough money to live, travel, visit different countries and so on. Now with remote working, those people are usually employed by a larger company. They have a steady job, they earn more, and they found out it is just as easy to work from Thailand as it is from their office in say Birmingham Alabama. They are a different type of DN I guess. But that's a semantic thing.

And yes, countries will have to adapt. Most are doing so now. Some are very easy-going, Thailand is a bit more difficult. But in 10 or 20 years most countries will have more or less similar rules for DN's. 

One sector the Thai government and yourself haven't considered is freelance workers. As an example your average IT contractor in the UK has a day rate of £350/day so would easily exceed that $80000 figure but they are not working for a large corporation. They are also currently being heavily targeted by the UK Government and HMRC to pay extra taxes.

If Thailand had a visa for such people that allowed them to register their business in Thailand and therefore legitimately pay 18% tax and have no liability to UK HMRC I can see it being an attractive proposition.

[Janneman]

48 minutes ago, FarangandEarnest said:

One sector the Thai government and yourself haven't considered is freelance workers. As an example your average IT contractor in the UK has a day rate of £350/day so would easily exceed that $80000 figure but they are not working for a large corporation. They are also currently being heavily targeted by the UK Government and HMRC to pay extra taxes.

If Thailand had a visa for such people that allowed them to register their business in Thailand and therefore legitimately pay 18% tax and have no liability to UK HMRC I can see it being an attractive proposition.

Certainly a very attractive proposition. Just a matter of time before Thai government will realize this. It might take a long time I'm afraid.