Thailand’s virology expert: give Sinovac to children over 3

[Thaiger]

Thailand’s top virologist Yong Poovorawan has suggested that the Sinovac vaccine be given to children older than 3 years old by the end of 2021 in an effort to reach Covid-19 herd immunity. The doctor who heads the Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology at Chulalongkorn University said he believes that the Chinese vaccine has the least severe side effects so should be safest for children to receive. Yong explains that while children are not terribly affected by Covid-19 and experience only mild symptoms usually, the virus is still fully capable of spreading from these infected children to adults and […]

The post Thailand’s virology expert: give Sinovac to children over 3 appeared first on Thaiger News.

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[BlueSphinx]

21 minutes ago, Thaiger said:

The doctor who heads the Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology at Chulalongkorn University said he believes that the Chinese vaccine has the least severe side effects so should be safest for children to receive. Yong explains that while children are not terribly affected by Covid-19 and experience only mild symptoms usually,

I rendered the important words in bold.

The doctor who heads the Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology at Chulalongkorn University said he believes that the Chinese vaccine has the least severe side effects so should be safest for children to receive.

So he knows the jabs are not '100 % safe' (and we are only talking short-term effects, as the longer-term effects are yet unknown) but he is pleading to vaccinate all children over +3 year to achieve his pipe-dream of full vaccine-induced herd immunity.

If this does not create outrage with all common-sense Thai medical personnel, nothing will!

[Cg66]

Good grief! Where is this ‘ top virologist’ getting his information from? Vaccines hinder the production of Syncytin which affects fertility. Children don’t transmit in the same way that adults do and absolutely don’t suffer from COVID-19 on the whole.

[King Cotton]

39 minutes ago, Cg66 said:

Good grief! Where is this ‘ top virologist’ getting his information from? Vaccines hinder the production of Syncytin which affects fertility. Children don’t transmit in the same way that adults do and absolutely don’t suffer from COVID-19 on the whole.

Where, indeed, most of us cannot help but ask!

 

Hello, Cg66 and welcome to Thaiger Talk

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And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[AlexPTY]

Seems like this country doesn't have just a regular scientists, now you either top or expert, cause, if you not, who will pay attention to what you say. Guess what, i wouldn't, and you can pry my kids out of my cold dead hands with the jaws of life before i will let you

[BlueSphinx]

1 hour ago, Cg66 said:

... Where is this ‘ top virologist’ getting his information from? ...

 

Here are ten reasons why children and young people should not get the Covid-19 vaccines:

1.    Children and young people have a mostly mild or asymptomatic presentation when infected with SARS-CoV-2. They are at near-zero risk of death from Covid-19.

2.    There is an unusually high rate of reported adverse events and deaths following the Covid-19 vaccines compared with other vaccines. Some adverse events are more common in the young, especially myocarditis. Where potential harm exists from an innovation and little is known about it, the precautionary principle dictates first do no harm.

3.    Medium and long-term safety data about the COVID-19 vaccines are still lacking. Children and young people have a remaining life expectancy of 55 to 80 years. Unknown harmful long-term effects are far more consequential for the young than for the elderly.

4.    Vaccination policies rely on expected benefits clearly outweighing the risk of adverse events from the vaccination. The risk-benefit analysis for the Covid-19 vaccines points to a high potential risk versus no benefit for children and young people.

5.    Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from children to adults is minimal and adults in contact with children do not have higher Covid-19 mortality.

6.    It is unethical to put children and young people at risk to protect adults. Altruistic behaviours such as organ and blood donation are all voluntary.

7.    Several prophylactic treatments as well as the Covid-19 vaccines are available to high-risk individuals so they can protect themselves.

8.    Natural immunity from infection with SARS-CoV-2 is broad and robust and more effective than vaccine immunity, especially in combating variants. Children and young people are safer with natural immunity.

9.    There are several prophylactic (preventive) protocols and effective treatments available to children and young people with co-morbidities.

10.    Vaccinating children and young people is not necessary for herd immunity. After a year and a half of the pandemic, most people either have pre-existing immunity from other coronaviruses, have recovered from Covid-19 or have been vaccinated.

There is therefore no medical or public health case for the mass vaccination of children and young people, or for coercive or restrictive measures affecting those who are unvaccinated. For the young, natural exposure to the virus instead of the vaccine is the right thing to do for the greater common good.

All parents should ask themselves this question: Why risk harm from the experimental vaccines when my child has near zero risk from Covid-19 and natural immunity is safer and more effective?

= = = = =

The above is an excerpt from an article first published by PANDA < pandata.org >.  You can download the full article with references to scientific studies for each of the points made, at 

> https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/covid-vaccine-for-children-all-risk-no-benefit/

I also attached a copy of the recent Open Letter from UK doctors: Safety and Ethical Concerns Surrounding COVID-19 Vaccination in Children, addressed to Dr June Raine, Chief Executive, MHRA.OpenLetterChildVaccination.pdf

 

OpenLetterChildVaccination.pdf

[ChristyS]

 If Sinovac procurement is like everything else in Thailand- corruption prone and subject to kickbacks, we have our answer as to why some  are pushing this 58% efficacy vaccine  that may well offer  0% protection  against the rising Delta variant. In fact looking to Seychelles and Chile, people abandoning masks and social  distancing due to complacency after getting  Sinovac or SinoPharm  are leading to increased infection rates- and leading to a wider opportunity for variants to mutate.. Especially if the second doses are not being administered in a timely manner. 

[Stardust]

Which parents who not lost their mind would do that. This virologist is a danger again. There is already a lot of outcry international about his last suggestions.

[BlueSphinx]

42 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Which parents who not lost their mind would do that. ...

Apparently the parents of 12-year old Maddie de Garay did. 
Her parents are in medicine & engineering and wanted their kids to help bring an end to the pandemic.

And Maddie herself was excited to be part of the Covid vaccine trial.
But now, Maddie is in a wheelchair and needs a feeding tube.

If you can stomach it: see tweet with video > https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1409704740213166080 - absolutely heartbreaking to see the devastated mother realizing that she destroyed the life of her daughter...

[Stardust]

10 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Apparently the parents of 12-year old Maddie de Garay did. 
Her parents are in medicine & engineering and wanted their kids to help bring an end to the pandemic.

And Maddie herself was excited to be part of the Covid vaccine trial.
But now, Maddie is in a wheelchair and needs a feeding tube.

If you can stomach it: see tweet with video > https://www.trendsmap.com/twitter/tweet/1409704740213166080 - absolutely heartbreaking to see the devastated mother realizing that she destroyed the life of her daughter...

Unbelievable how parents can do that.

[Stonker]

 

6 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

After a year and a half of the pandemic, most people either have pre-existing immunity from other coronaviruses, have recovered from Covid-19 or have been vaccinated.

I don't know anything like enough about it to comment about most of Pandata's points, but I know enough to know that this isn't true for Thailand or most of the world, which makes me wonder about the validity  of some of their other points.

[BlueSphinx]

9 hours ago, Stonker said:

I don't know anything like enough about it to comment about most of Pandata's points, but I know enough to know that this isn't true for Thailand or most of the world, which makes me wonder about the validity  of some of their other points.

@Stonker > Always willing to discuss the issue with you and provide supporting studies/data.  But then you need to be a bit more specific about which of those 10 points 'aren't true for Thailand or most of the world'.  Looking forward to your reply.

Edited July 2, 2021 by BlueSphinx

[AlexPTY]

The WHO states that since they tend to experience mild disease symptoms compared to adults, they aren't in urgent need for vaccinations unless they have a pre-existing condition. "More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19,” the WHO states on its website.

Until then i urge this fine virologist to give a jab to his kid

[BlueSphinx]

1 hour ago, AlexPTY said:

The WHO states that since they tend to experience mild disease symptoms compared to adults, they aren't in urgent need for vaccinations unless they have a pre-existing condition. "More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19,” the WHO states on its website.

Until then i urge this fine virologist to give a jab to his kid

It is interesting to know that that current WHO advice about the need for more evidence to recommend vaccinating children against COVID-19, is only there since 23 June 2021. 

The previous text which was there from 8 April 2021 - almost two months - before it was changed with the new one, read:

 

[Loongtip]

This clueless peanut from the junta must certainly be insane! Nobody should be given ANY of those untested, experimental poisons! They aren't needed, especially by kids! No wonder this country is in the mess it is in when morons of his ilk are making judgements that affect the citizens!!

 

[Joe]

And the "top virologist" bases this on what?! Extensive Thai research? Cause "believing" is not science! I can believe in "fairies" but that doesn't mean they real! And incidentally this is from the same scientists that took 4 long months to approve Moderna that 300,000 million people already got?! Really....

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

But then you need to be a bit more specific about which of those 10 points 'aren't true for Thailand or most of the world'.  Looking forward to your reply.

The point I quoted!

 

It was point 10:

" After a year and a half of the pandemic, most people either have pre-existing immunity from other coronaviruses, have recovered from Covid-19 or have been vaccinated."

 

It applies in the USA given the numbers recovered and the numbers vaccinated, but I think you have to agree that it doesn't apply to Thailand and most of the world.

 

I'm also a bit dubious about point 5:

 

"Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from children to adults is minimal and adults in contact with children do not have higher Covid-19 mortality."

 

That seems to contradict the outbreak in Khon Kaen reported yesterday (More than 30 children at Isaan care centre test positive for Covid-19) where "Health officials say a 2 year old boy, who was first infected by his mother, spread the virus to the child care centre in the Isaan province Khon Kaen. Altogether 8 teachers and 34 students at the centre tested positive for the virus."

 

I agree 100% with what you're saying in principle, but  I'm very dubious about organisations like Pandata that talk about "promoting courageous societies ... empowering the public ... enabling individuals to exercise freedom of choice and preserve human liberties and free societies".

 

I'm all for freedom of choice and personal liberty, but "human liberties and free societies" seems to be increasingly about "empowering" minorities, frequently tiny minorities, at everyone else's expense.

 

I'm all for recognising that people are trans, but I think it's absurd that someone who was a man for 34 years, and who set national junior weightlifting records as a man, should be allowed to compete in a sport like weightlifting as a woman.

I'm all for mothers being able to breast feed, but I wouldn't appreciate someone doing so next to me in the theatre or in a bus just because it's "natural"  any more than they'd appreciate my defecating next to them for the same reason.

 

I agree with the principle of choice over vaccines, but vaccines do work and have put an end to the horrors of polio, for example, but developing them is seldom as painless as we'd like it to be, and I'm far from sure  that Pandata's scientific arguments are valid or if they're just baffling with bullshit.

 

As I said, I don't know enough to judge all ten points  but point 5 seems very questionable and point 10 certainly isn't true for Thailand, which is what makes me wonder about the rest.

 

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

And incidentally this is from the same scientists that took 4 long months to approve Moderna that 300,000 million people already got?! Really....

Actually, for what it's worth, it isn't and they haven't.

Dr Yong has nothing to do with vaccine approval, and "300,000 million people" are unlikely to have had a Moderna jab as that's forty times the population of the world!

 

[BlueSphinx]

25 minutes ago, Stonker said:

...

As I said, I don't know enough to judge all ten points  but point 5 seems very questionable and point 10 certainly isn't true for Thailand, which is what makes me wonder about the rest.

Fair enough.  Obviously point 10 is - luckily - hardly relevant for Thailand.  And indeed point 5 is questionable, although the Swedish approach where schools were kept open (with some social distancing but NO masks), did not lead to outbreaks and there is no difference in hospitalization/morbidity rates of teachers compared with other professions.  But what happened in Khon Kaen surely deserves follow-up (but keep in mind that a positive test does not necessarily mean that those tested are or will become ill).

But that leaves 8 reasons for not mass-vaccinating children for covid-19. The main one of course being that there are hardly any risks for children from getting covid-19, which cannot be said of the experimental jab they would receive for that non-existing risk.   

[Stonker]

14 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

But that leaves 8 reasons for not mass-vaccinating children for covid-19.

8 possible reasons!

 

If someone gives me ten reasons to do something and I only know anything about two of them and they're both wrong, I'm a bit wary of believing the others.

 

As I say I agree in principle but I'm far from convinced there's enough evidence yet one way or the other in which case it's a pointless risk - for the moment ☺

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Stonker said:

Actually, for what it's worth, it isn't and they haven't.

Dr Yong has nothing to do with vaccine approval, and "300,000 million people" are unlikely to have had a Moderna jab as that's forty times the population of the world!

I’ve seen similar such defences of this Dr Yong before. I think it was from a member called Simon Small? He was supporting this guy indicating he was a renowned expert and that he had gone to Kings Collage London (so what!).
 

This Dr needs to provide hard trial scientific peer reviewed  data to support such contentious statements.     

[Stonker]

On 7/2/2021 at 3:06 PM, Soidog said:

I’ve seen similar such defences of this Dr Yong before. I think it was from a member called Simon Small? He was supporting this guy indicating he was a renowned expert and that he had gone to Kings Collage London (so what!).
 

This Dr needs to provide hard trial scientific peer reviewed  data to support such contentious statements.     

I'm not "defending" him one way or the other - just pointing out that he's got nothing to do with vaccine approval and that I doubt that 300,000,000,000 people had an AZ jab as there are only some 7,700,000,00 on this planet!

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Stonker
typo

[Stonker]

On 7/2/2021 at 1:41 PM, BlueSphinx said:

Fair enough.  Obviously point 10 is - luckily - hardly relevant for Thailand.  And indeed point 5 is questionable, although the Swedish approach where schools were kept open (with some social distancing but NO masks), did not lead to outbreaks and there is no difference in hospitalization/morbidity rates of teachers compared with other professions.  But what happened in Khon Kaen surely deserves follow-up (but keep in mind that a positive test does not necessarily mean that those tested are or will become ill).

But that leaves 8 reasons for not mass-vaccinating children for covid-19. The main one of course being that there are hardly any risks for children from getting covid-19, which cannot be said of the experimental jab they would receive for that non-existing risk.   

Coincidentally, @BlueSphinx, I get the National Geographic on-line and there was a very interesting article dated 30 June, just after this thread started, headed  "Long COVID afflicts kids too. Here's what we know so far".

 

Apparently while few kids are hospitallised or die so it looks as if they're unaffected, as many as 1 in 10 may be affected by "Long Covid".   While I still agree with you that they shouldn't be vaccinated until a lot more is known, that could put a very different perspective on things.

[BlueSphinx]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Coincidentally, @BlueSphinx, I get the National Geographic on-line and there was a very interesting article dated 30 June, just after this thread started, headed  "Long COVID afflicts kids too. Here's what we know so far".

Apparently while few kids are hospitallised or die so it looks as if they're unaffected, as many as 1 in 10 may be affected by "Long Covid".   While I still agree with you that they shouldn't be vaccinated until a lot more is known, that could put a very different perspective on things.

Thanks @Stonker > I will look up the article, because indeed that could put a different light on the risk/benefit analysis for children's covid-vaccination, and it is important to be well informed before making any decisions in that sensitive matter.

[AmericanHualan]

I think I am missing something, and those who know otherwise please help me out. Why are people this young being vaccinated on a virus that seems largely to NOT affect them? As I understand it, those who become very ill on this Virus are still those with pre-existing conditions and those who are elderly.  Others whould just be allowed to develop natural immunity.  Am I wrong?