News Forum - Royalists in Thailand target one-man German activist

[Janneman]

Apparantly protesting in Thailand can only be done by Thai citizens, not by dirty farangs.

This guy is married to a Thai woman, he lives in Thailand for 8 years now.  After living in Thailand for 5 years any person can apply for Thai citizenship. It wouldnt surprise me if he did. In which case he is a Thai citizen. And has the fullest right to protest.

 

[Cabra]

What's funny are these yellow shirts getting worked up about a slight on the PM when many of them have been walking away from him as well. 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/from-friends-to-foes-how-former-yellow-shirt-leaders-have-turned-against-prayut/

 

[HolyCowCm]

20 hours ago, Chatogaster said:

but it would take a puppet judge + the lawyer of the century to determine that the German compromised national security.

Trying to cause insurrection. Easy to point the finger and convict him on that. And don't forget who approves and signs these people in and whom they support. 

[stevenkongju]

4 hours ago, Chaimai said:

If you want to call the Thais racist, for their attitude to foreigners, please make it clear that it was not I making any racist reference.

It would seem I was mistaken in that your are not racist against "farangs". I can admit when I read something incorrectly.

And I do not wish to call Thais racist, however, any individual with the attitude, "Irrespective of the principles of free speech, the opinions of Farangs (on anything, but particularly Thai politics, religion, royalty) are not welcome", sure sounds like a racist.

I happen to love Thailand. I plan to retire there with my Thai wife. I am there usually 4 months a year. I can still despise the lack of freedom of speech though for the same reasons I would in any country. I don't think that if a person goes to a place and likes it, but sees diagreeable things, is obliged to keep there mouth closed. They may, however, have to be prepared to take the consequences. I am assuming the German in the original post is. So good for him.

[stevenkongju]

3 hours ago, 23RD said:

In you're own native US there's a problem with the current Administration subduing the free speech of 50% of its population. 

It might be advisable to remember you're a guest in the Kingdom of Thailand and put more effort into free speech in The US.

First, how so? How is the current administration limiting speech? If they are, I am against it.

Second, I can be pro-free-speech in multiple countries at the same time...I am that talented.

[Janneman]

1 hour ago, stevenkongju said:

  6 hours ago, Chaimai said:

If you want to call the Thais racist, for their attitude to foreigners, please make it clear that it was not I making any racist reference.

I'm suddenly thinking about a certain Anutin. Who repeatedly talked about 'dirty disease-spreading farangs'. On official occasions. He only said so in Thai of course. Apparantly he thinks nobody would translate it to english.

[23RD]

2 hours ago, stevenkongju said:

First, how so? How is the current administration limiting speech? If they are, I am against it.

The recent proven collusion between Big Tech and The Biden Administration. 

 

2 hours ago, stevenkongju said:

Second, I can be pro-free-speech in multiple countries at the same time...I am that talented.

I'm pro free speech in every Country (so long as it doesn't violate the Law in a Country I'm a guest in).

[stevenkongju]

22 minutes ago, 23RD said:

I'm pro free speech in every Country (so long as it doesn't violate the Law in a Country I'm a guest in).

OK...So in Russia, China and North Korea you are not pro-free speech. Got it. 

[Venusianhart]

He's a silly boy for upsetting even sillier, but deadly dangerous, pearl-clutchers. 

Hope he pipes down and saves himself and his missus a lot of unnecessary bovver.

[Venusianhart]

On 9/5/2022 at 11:40 PM, Chatogaster said:

I think that poster expressed a personal belief (if so, no right/wrong applies -- in this case), and not a belief that it's illegal (which would be wrong).

Article 13 of the ICCPR makes it near-impossible to deport a legal alien (within the context given). Prosecution under local laws (I think section 116 would have to be favorite) could still be an issue theoretically, but it would take a puppet judge + the lawyer of the century to determine that the German compromised national security.

The only real risk is that any misstep (completely unrelated to his one-man, silent demonstrations), even the most trivial ones, are abused to the fullest (out of spite). 

PS: if publicly opinionating about Thai politics/politicians would be risky business, a good portion of Thaiger's regular commenters would have "mysteriously" disappeared. Come to think of it now, I kind of miss some old, vehemently opinionated antagonists who don't seem to be around anymore ;-)
 

All very noble. We're not dealing with a regime that gives a rats razoo about the letter of the law when they have a point to make.

We are also not allowed to link to alternative points of view on this site, if only to help you understand how we arrived here, as media are obligated to abide by the draconian and vague digital media broadcast regulations, but the activist talking points sourced abroad, are easy to find with the right keywords. 

Like it or not, foreigners who want to remain in Thailand need to keep schtum and carry on.

These forums are relatively generous with foriegners airing our opinions within the forum rules, and we in turn try to express our support for the people and our own frustration in broad and relatively civil terms. 

Even if the worst that can happen to us is expulsion, people we care about in Thailand are still vulnerable to unwarranted harassment, and there are searchable instances of that happening too.  

This German activist is not helping anyone with this high profile approach, least of all himself and his brave wife who stands by him. 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Venusianhart

[23RD]

24 minutes ago, stevenkongju said:

OK...So in Russia, China and North Korea you are not pro-free speech. Got it.

I want to answer you without going of topic. 

But in your own Country over the last 21 months or so you've had an Administration that's suppressed free speech of Political Opponents, raided the home's of Journalists, Lawyer's and Political Opponents. 

So before you start bumping your gums about free speech in Thailand worry about your own back yard first because it's fast becoming very similar to Russia, China and North Korea.

[HolyCowCm]

He is rattling cages and except for our money we are already looked down upon. 

[Manu]

6 hours ago, Janneman said:

Apparantly protesting in Thailand can only be done by Thai citizens, not by dirty farangs.

This guy is married to a Thai woman, he lives in Thailand for 8 years now.  After living in Thailand for 5 years any person can apply for Thai citizenship. It wouldnt surprise me if he did. In which case he is a Thai citizen. And has the fullest right to protest.

That seems to be common sense, but some here keep going on about "guests"... This guy lives here and therefore gives his whole life to this country, he is not a "guest". The thing is all Thai people I know/meet agree with that too exactly like this guy's wife, that is the ones who despise this regime (so quasi ALL of them!!) and risk a lot when they want to express their opinion, and sadly most of them prefer not to. The ones that do not want any change, like some Royalists, do not want foreigners whom have the right to live in Thailand to express an opinion but do not want any Thai to express any opinion either, or an opinion that is a "critic" of the current regime I shall say. They do not want democracy, freedom of speech and all that goes with it. But it is just a minority against a vast majority who wants just that. Once you know that, it is up to you to choose your side: shutting up heads down along with the current regime and their supporters or expressing your opinion along with the vast majority of Thai people.

And how about workers from Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia... living rightly in Thailand for years? Shouldn't they have the right to express an opinion, especially for a start to denounce the way so many are badly treated? Another political issue in this country but there again, "same same"...: do as you are told and shut up!

The problem is not about if this is right for this perticular Farang / German to express his opinion, the problem in Thailand is that there is no freedom of speech at all, and god knows Thai people have plenty to say about what this regime is doing to them and their country. I hear this on a daily basis. As a foreigner who has the right to live in Thailand, this is almost a duty to support people you live with in order simply somehow to improve life for everyone, no better way to do so by expressing an opinion that you share with them. Improving the problems of the people on this planet starts around you, it does not evolve and end in the country where you were born, especially if you do not live there anymore.

[Manu]

On 9/5/2022 at 1:12 PM, Guest1 said:

He might think, because the left/green politicians in Germany allowing everyone, to demonstrate and complain about German politics and politicians or whatever they dont like, in Germany, it is his right, to do that everywhere else, too.

Send him home!

Why "left/green"? Well I actually see where you are going with that...

Well even these guys are allowed to express their opinions in Germany in 2022...

https://www.irinsider.org/western-europe-1/2022/4/17/germany-sees-continued-controversial-far-right-protests

Sometimes, left and right are even protesting together...

https://www.dw.com/en/germans-revive-cold-war-monday-demonstrations-amid-inflation/a-63025218

"send him home"?? Where home? Do you mean that "your home" is where you are born? Not where you have your whole life, your wife, family, friends, home, work, where you pay your taxes, etc...?

[Marc26]

48 minutes ago, Manu said:

 

The problem is not about if this is right for this perticular Farang / German to express his opinion, the problem in Thailand is that there is no freedom of speech at all, and god knows Thai people have plenty to say about what this regime is doing to them and their country. I hear this on a daily basis. As a foreigner who has the right to live in Thailand, this is almost a duty to support people you live with in order simply somehow to improve life for everyone, no better way to do so by expressing an opinion that you share with them. Improving the problems of the people on this planet starts around you, it does not evolve and end in the country where you were born, especially if you do not live there anymore.

So many guys that are married to Thai ladies don't want them to have opinions or be knowledgable

 

They are afraid of smart and independent women, they came to Thailand to find someone that would make them feel smart and special for once in their life............

 

(that is not a reflection on how I feel about Thai ladies intellect)

[Wanderer]

15 hours ago, Vigo said:

Can you ask Thai nationals who are "guests" in countries such as USA, EU and UK not to engage in their protests?

Thank you

This is Thailand, they do things differently here. 

[Janneman]

23 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

This is Thailand, they do things differently here. 

Yup. Do as the junta says or else... Plenty of 'concerned citizens' to report you.

Thailand is in good company, Russia, Belarus, Syria, Saudi Arabia, China, Afghanistan, Myanmar. All countries where it is wiser not to utter any critic on the ruling power. Those in power all happen to be military too.

[LuckyStrike]

He lives in Thailand.... that's problematic. When in Rome......

[NorskTiger]

12 hours ago, 23RD said:

Exactly the problem in the above mentioned Countries to many people without a right to be there telling the the indigenous population what they should do what they should think and where they should adapt to accommodate people with no rights to be there.

Having lived in Thailand for over 10 years now I  admire the way they protect their own way of life and culture. 

I wish my own native UK had done the same for their population. 

Couldn't agree more. Thailand functions very well on sooo many levels and the Western hippocritical model of "democracy" is not more important to most to emulate than not having to endure neo.colonial attitudes from nations that historically have not exactly been well-meaning. 

     To me, democracy in the West is mostly an illusion and a symbolic priviliege for the few with banking relations and connections to the political elite. All the others are merley pawns. 

[MikeTexas]

15 hours ago, 23RD said:

When in glasshouses don't throw stones. 

In you're own native US there's a problem with the current Administration subduing the free speech of 50% of its population. 

It might be advisable to remember you're a guest in the Kingdom of Thailand and put more effort into free speech in The US.

Nobody is subduing legal free speech here.  The different political spectrums of the news media (left and right) might be selectively reporting on topics but the laws regarding free speech haven't changed.  Some have, however, forgotten that there are limitations on what is considered free speech.

Now, there ARE cases where people, especially comedians, have been cancelled because of their statements.  That hasn't limited their ability to say what they want, only their ability to make money in certain venues.  The strangest thing is that it seems to happen mostly in college campuses.  Universities have gone from begin the bastion of free speech to a bunch of whiny a-holes that need their safe space.  Being able to say something and getting paid to do it are different. 

[Chaimai]

15 hours ago, stevenkongju said:

It would seem I was mistaken in that your are not racist against "farangs". I can admit when I read something incorrectly.

And I do not wish to call Thais racist, however, any individual with the attitude, "Irrespective of the principles of free speech, the opinions of Farangs (on anything, but particularly Thai politics, religion, royalty) are not welcome", sure sounds like a racist.

I happen to love Thailand. I plan to retire there with my Thai wife. I am there usually 4 months a year. I can still despise the lack of freedom of speech though for the same reasons I would in any country. I don't think that if a person goes to a place and likes it, but sees diagreeable things, is obliged to keep there mouth closed. They may, however, have to be prepared to take the consequences. I am assuming the German in the original post is. So good for him.

 

I am not racist against anyone  - although I recognise that Thais are amongst the most institutionally racist people I have come across.

 

If you love Thailand you will quickly come to realise that what the German did was stupid. It may (or probably not in these slightly more tolerant times) jeopardise his immigration status. After living here for 16 years you know not to put your head in the lion's mouth. Learning to 'turn the other cheek' is a skill that will hold you in good stead in many walks of Thai life - even if it goes against your natural feelings of right and wrong. It is a corny phrase, but we (as Farangs) do not make the rules in Thailand, we simply have to abide by them.  

 

We are referred to as "aliens" for good reason.