Visa exemption and re-entry permit?

[RRRoberts]

My wife and I will travel to Thailand in December.  We are US citizens so we will have a Visa Exemption which will allow us to stay for 45 days under the new rules that will take place.  My wife will only be there for one month but I will stay longer.  Are we allowed to travel to a country out of Thailand for 4 or 5 days, and then return?  Or will the Visa Exemption not allow this?  Would a re-entry permit be required or even allowed? 

I will be staying for 60 days.  In the past I have gotten a SETV, but only stayed in Thailand.  Am I allowed to leave Thailand for a few days and then return. or would I be required to have the expensive METV to leave and return?

The other option since I would have a 45 day Visa Exemption, would be to extend it for another 30 days.  Would this allow me to travel outside of Thailand and then return?

Thanks

[cockneyboy]

under the new rules a visa exempt entry gives a 45 day permission to stay stamp (at present it is 30days), this can be extended by 30 days at local immigration office 1,900thb

if you leave Thailand the entry stamp date you received on entry dies.

a re-entry permit only keeps the original entry stamp date alive, it does not freeze the entry stamp, 

if you want to leave Thailand and re-enter then you will get another visa exempt entry when you return, 2 per year are allowed at land border crossings, the same restriction does not apply for entries by air

Edited August 23, 2022 by cockneyboy

[RRRoberts]

I want to make sure I understand you.  In this case, if my wife has a 45 day Visa Exempt Entry stamp, and wants to go to Singapore for 4 or 5 days, she can leave Thailand (by plane flight) and when she returns to Thailand, she will get a new Visa Exempt Entry stamp.  She will not need a re-entry permit.

Please let me know if this is accurate, since I find the rules confusing.

 

Also, I want to stay in Thailand for 60 days,  Instead of getting a SETV for 60 days, it would make sense to just get a 30 extension of my 45 day Visa Entry Exception stamp at an immigration office, which would allow me to stay in Thailand for 75 days.  Can I also leave Thailand for 4 or 5 days when I have my 45 day stamp, and when I return, get my 30 day extension?

Thanks

[Faz]

7 hours ago, RRRoberts said:

I want to make sure I understand you.  In this case, if my wife has a 45 day Visa Exempt Entry stamp, and wants to go to Singapore for 4 or 5 days, she can leave Thailand (by plane flight) and when she returns to Thailand, she will get a new Visa Exempt Entry stamp.  She will not need a re-entry permit.

Correct.

7 hours ago, RRRoberts said:

Also, I want to stay in Thailand for 60 days,  Instead of getting a SETV for 60 days, it would make sense to just get a 30 extension of my 45 day Visa Entry Exception stamp at an immigration office, which would allow me to stay in Thailand for 75 days.  Can I also leave Thailand for 4 or 5 days when I have my 45 day stamp, and when I return, get my 30 day extension?

You may not need a 30-day extension.

On entry, you'd be granted permission of stay for 45 days.
e.g. Enter Dec 10th, permitted to stay until Jan 23rd.
If you exit Thailand before Jan 23rd, your permission of stay is cancelled.
If you re-enter again a few days later, you will be granted a further stay of another 45 days.

Alternatively, on return, a re-entry permit protects any permission of stay already previously granted.
From the above scenario, if you exited Thailand Jan 2nd with a re-entry permit, returning to Thailand Jan 7th, you'd be granted permission of stay until Jan 23rd again.

You can apply for a 30-day extension to any VE or TV entry.

[RRRoberts]

Thanks for the reply.  In the past I have never had an issue with leaving Thailand and then returning.  I have left several times on a visit and always received a new 30 day Visa Exemption Stamp when returning.  I recently spoke with the Thai Consulate in Chicago and they gave me a very vague answer to my questions, so I decided to ask here.  They told me I should get a Re-entry Permit as I left Thailand in order to return.  If for some reason, on returning to Thailand, immigration did not want to issue another 45 day Visa Entry Exemption, and asked to see a re-entry permit, how much trouble would I be in and what would be my options?  Thanks again

[Faz]

1 hour ago, RRRoberts said:

I recently spoke with the Thai Consulate in Chicago and they gave me a very vague answer to my questions, so I decided to ask here. 

In previous years gone by, many foreigners were able to stay all year in Thailand as supposed 'tourists', by means of multiple entries using VE and TV entries, extensions and border hops, clear abuse of the system.
In an attempt to control this situation in Dec 2016, Thailand issued a Ministerial Order restricting VE entries at land border crossing to 2 per year. Limited Visa Exempt entry by land..pdf 

However, they didn't go as far as issuing a defined policy on VE entries by air.
Most Countries have a policy of restricting Tourists/Visitors to stays of 3 months in a 6-month period, or 6 months in a 12-month period, Currently, it's the Immigration entry clearance officer that is allowed to use his discretion to determine if in his opinion you are spending too much time in Thailand as a Tourist.
Their decisions are often based on the number of previous entries within a given period from their database.

I note some Thai Embassies are issuing 'advice' on limiting stays in Thailand to 3 months in any 6-month period as a tourist to avoid a possible refusal, and due to a non-existent Thai policy on this issue.
They are just being cautious, yet in contradiction, Thailand offers the METV, which if used to its potential permits a tourist a stay of almost 9 months with 2 border runs and 3 x 30 day extensions.

What is your previous history of VE entries into Thailand?
If this is your first, then you should have no problem whatsoever entering Thailand by air, then spending a few days in Singapore, then re-entering by air for a 2nd VE entry.
If it makes you feel more confident, following the advice of your Thai Embassy, then after initial entry and granted a stay of 45 days, purchase a single re-entry permit (1,000 BHT) to keep your original permission of stay valid on re-entry after a trip.
You can further extend that permitted stay by a further 30 days at Immigration (1,900 BHT)

[RRRoberts]

I usually travel to Thailand once per year and stay around 6-7 weeks.  However, this year I was in Thailand in late March and the month of April for 42 days.  I had purchased an 60 day SETV visa for that visit after speaking with the Chicago Consulate before the trip.  That was OK for that visit, since I did not leave Thailand during that time, and I only received one Visa Exempt stamp.  So, this is my second trip this year.  It will be my second Visa Exempt stamp, and if I leave Thailand and re-enter, my third Visa Exempt stamp.  The trip will be in December of 2022 and January of 2023.  I can stay for 45 days until mid January until I would  need to get a 30 day extension for the last 15 days of my visit.  So are you saying that I should purchase a single re-entry (1,00 baht) when I leave during the initial 45 VE, and then after I return, and before the 45 day VE expires, Purchase a 30 day extension (1,900 baht) for the remainder of the visit?

[Faz]

5 minutes ago, RRRoberts said:

I usually travel to Thailand once per year and stay around 6-7 weeks.  However, this year I was in Thailand in late March and the month of April for 42 days.  I had purchased an 60 day SETV visa for that visit after speaking with the Chicago Consulate before the trip.  That was OK for that visit, since I did not leave Thailand during that time, and I only received one Visa Exempt stamp. 

That doesn't make sense.
You visited Thailand once March/Apr for 42 days on a Tourist Visa.
Where did the VE stamp come from?

8 minutes ago, RRRoberts said:

So, this is my second trip this year.  It will be my second Visa Exempt stamp, and if I leave Thailand and re-enter, my third Visa Exempt stamp.  The trip will be in December of 2022 and January of 2023.  I can stay for 45 days until mid January until I would  need to get a 30 day extension for the last 15 days of my visit.  So are you saying that I should purchase a single re-entry (1,00 baht) when I leave during the initial 45 VE, and then after I return, and before the 45 day VE expires, Purchase a 30 day extension (1,900 baht) for the remainder of the visit?

I'm not saying what you should do, just the options available.
A VE entry will grant a stay of 45 days.
A TV entry will grant a stay of 60 days.
Each entry can be extended by a further 30 days.
A re-entry permit protects any permission of stay granted on original entry if you depart and return during that period.

You plan to stay 60 days, early Dec to early Feb presumably, and take a short 4/5 day visit to Singapore?
What dates do you plan to take a short trip?

Examples:
You enter Dec 10th VE, granted a stay of 45 days until Jan 23rd.
You exit Jan 10th, re-enter VE Jan 15th, granted a stay of 45 days until Feb 28th.
(You won't need a 30-day extension.)

You enter Dec 10th VE, granted a stay of 45 days until Jan 23rd.
You purchase a re-entry permit, exit Jan 10th, re-enter Jan 15th, permitted to stay until Jan 23rd
(You'd need a 30-day extension to stay beyond Jan 23rd.)

You enter Dec 10th on a TV, granted a stay of 60 days until Feb 7th.
You purchase a re-entry permit, exit Jan 10th, re-enter Jan 15th, permitted to stay until Feb 7th.
(A 30-day extension is available should you decide to stay longer than 60 days beyond Feb 7th.)

Multiple options dependent on the method of entry and exactly what dates you intend to take a short trip.

 

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, RRRoberts said:

That was OK for that visit, since I did not leave Thailand during that time, and I only received one Visa Exempt stamp.

Aside, that you did not get a VE, but a 60 day granted b/c a tourist visa:

You have a back flight ticket in the end of your planned 60 days?

Have the details with you, on the second VE entry, after your trip to Singapore/another country. And, perhaps, entry Thailand in Swampi. 

Out of (pre-covid) experience, there is the least trouble (questioning of you/the reason) to expect. 

Also: If it is not a one day trip, meaning a clear "just a visa run", but a couple of days in the other location, that should usually fit the moving patterns of SEA tourists. 

And the return ticket should give you proof, if needed.

[RRRoberts]

Thanks for your time and help.  I think I understand now how it works. 

I arrive on Dec 8th and the trip to Singapore would be on the Dec 14th through the 17th.  If I get a re-entry permit I will still need to get a 30 day extension before Jan 21st since I am staying until Feb 9th.  Cost is 1000THB + 1900THB.

If I don't get the re-entry permit and get a second 45 day VE on the Dec 17th when I return, It will get me only until Jan 31st and I will still need to get a 30 day extension.  Cost is 1900THB.

If I enter on a TV on Dec 8th I would be granted a 60 day stay until Feb 5th.  I would still need a re-entry permit.  I would just fly back on Feb 5th rather that get a 30 day extension to cover the 4 more days.  Cost of this TV is rather expensive $80 and the re-entry permit (1000THB) to go to Singapore and return.  (assuming I don't need to get a METV and can leave with a re-entry on a SETV.)

So, its cheaper to get the second VE and the visa extension, but may be safer to get the re-entry and the visa extension.  With these 2 options it seems the TV is not worth the effort.

Correct me if I am wrong

----------------------------

You are correct, earlier this year I did not get a VE because I was on a TV.  I had a flight ticket back at the end of 60 days.  The immigration officer hand wrote 'visa' beside the entry stamp.

I don't understand your phrase "entry Thailand in Swampi.'

 

 

[Faz]

3 hours ago, RRRoberts said:

I don't understand your phrase "entry Thailand in Swampi.'

That was Guest1, not myself.
He isn't a native English speaker, but I'll come to the point he was making later.

3 hours ago, RRRoberts said:

Thanks for your time and help.  I think I understand now how it works. 

I arrive on Dec 8th and the trip to Singapore would be on the Dec 14th through the 17th.  If I get a re-entry permit I will still need to get a 30 day extension before Jan 21st since I am staying until Feb 9th.  Cost is 1000THB + 1900THB.

If I don't get the re-entry permit and get a second 45 day VE on the Dec 17th when I return, It will get me only until Jan 31st and I will still need to get a 30 day extension.  Cost is 1900THB.

If I enter on a TV on Dec 8th I would be granted a 60 day stay until Feb 5th.  I would still need a re-entry permit.  I would just fly back on Feb 5th rather that get a 30 day extension to cover the 4 more days.  Cost of this TV is rather expensive $80 and the re-entry permit (1000THB) to go to Singapore and return.  (assuming I don't need to get a METV and can leave with a re-entry on a SETV.)

So, its cheaper to get the second VE and the visa extension, but may be safer to get the re-entry and the visa extension.  With these 2 options it seems the TV is not worth the effort.

Correct me if I am wrong

Will you also be using hotel accommodation throughout your visit?

You are correct, however your planned trip to exit on 14th returning Dec 17th does throw a spanner in the works, and you would require a further 30 day extension to stay until Feb 9th, which creates a further issue, one of the points Guest1 was I believe trying to make.

When entering VE (without a Visa) the airlines request either a return or ticket out within the 30 days usually granted, but they will be fully aware of the change to the 45-day entry.
That would not be a problem initially boarding in the UK as you could provide a ticket out to Singapore within the 45 days. However, when boarding in Singapore for your return trip to Thailand, although you could provide an outbound ticket back to the UK, it wouldn't be within the 45-day period you'd be granted on entry to Thailand - they could refuse boarding unless you changed your return flight dates.

Entering Thailand on Dec 17th you'd only be granted permission of stay until Jan 30th. (Not the 31st as you stated, the day you enter Thailand is counted as day 1 of your stay).

The options are to either;
1.  Change your proposed return flight dates to the UK to Jan 30th, cutting your proposed stay in Thailand short,
OR,
2. Change the proposed dates of visiting Singapore until early January, in which case you wouldn't need a 30-day extension, as your outbound ticket to the UK would then be within 45 days granted on your second VE entry.

Obtaining a re-entry permit wouldn't negate the fact your return ticket to the UK is beyond the date you'd be granted on entry for on returning from Singapore. With no current history of VE entries, you should have no issues entering twice within a short period. If questioned, you took a short trip to a nearby Country and you can show your return flight ticket to the UK. (Another point Guest1 was making).

How flexible are your travel dates? 

[RRRoberts]

The entry Date is set.  We fly on Dec 6th and the plane arrives at 12:05am on Dec 8th.  If the plane arrives early we could linger a bit before getting to immigration so that the entry date is the still the 8th and not the 7th.

The return date is flexible.  If the Singapore trip is problematic we could skip it and just travel around Thailand.  I am leaning toward this to simplify things.

We will be using hotel accommodation throughout the visit.

I see what you mean about the return ticket date.  If it is past the 45 day VE then I could be refused boarding in the US.  Since my wife leaves Thailand before me and before the end of the 45 day VE, the return ticket issue is not a problem for her.

It may just make sense for me to get a TV for Dec 8th and I would be granted a 60 day stay until Feb 5th.  As I mentioned, I got an SETV last year and know about the paperwork I need to file.  If I wanted to leave Thailand for a few days, I could get a re-entry permit and still have the 60 day TV ending on Feb 5th with a return ticket for that day.

In the past, before Covid, I just came and went out  of Thailand as I pleased, no problems with multiple VE, no problem with return ticket dates. I never even thought about the possible issues with doing this.  I usually stayed 6 or7 weeks and left Thailand a couple of times for Myanmar and Singapore.  They just stamped the VE each time I re-entered.  It seems they are more strict now.

Thanks