The Origin of Isan

[Bluesofa]

 

Ever wondered where the name Isan comes from and how it came about?

From this wiki map you can see all of what is now Isan was part of Laos in 1828 [1]

Isan has been dominated by each of its neighbours in turn, although its relative infertility meant it was more often a battleground than a prize. Rather than being incorporated into the respective empires of each power, the area was divided into mueang ("city-states"), each paying tribute to one or more powers under this system. [2]

Formation of Isan
The word Isan, a derivative from Pali meaning the north-east, first came into existence as a name in 1900.

The Siam administrative area established in 1894 by the name of Lao Kao was renamed Tawan-ok Chiang Nuea (Northeast Circle) in 1899, and once again was renamed Isan in January 1900.

The name originally only covered the area roughly corresponding to the southeastern quarter of today’s northeastern Thailand. The seven major mueangs in the area were Ubon Ratchathani, Nakhon Champasak, Sisaket, Surin, Roiet, Mahasarakha, and Kalasin. [3]

The earliest known reference to Isan was in a Siamese-French-English dictionary in 1854. [4]

Later, the national government claimed that the name "Isan" was derived from Sanskrit Īśāna, a name of Shiva they claimed referred to his rule of the northeast (Sanskrit īśānya). This interpretation was intended to reinforce Isan's identity as the northeast of Thailand, rather than as part of the Lao kingdom because of the fear of the Lao people seceding. [2] [5] [6]

This is supported by the alteration of text in documents about Isan:
The word Lao in A is crossed out. In B, the word Thai is used instead of Lao, and the Thai race emerged as the outcome. [3]

The use of Laos script was already banned in Isan in 1871 by royal decree and supplemented with the Thai alphabet. The written Laos language survived to some degree until the imposition of the radical Thaification policies of the 1930s, as the Central Thai culture was elevated as the national standard and all expressions of regional and minority culture were brutally suppressed. [7] [8]

 

sources:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_rebellion_(1826-1828)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Isan

[3] https://so06.tci-thaijo.org/index.php/pub_jss/article/download/157699/114215/431559

[4] https://archive.org/details/acl8679.0001.001.umich.edu/page/192/mode/1up?q=north 

[5] https://sanskritdictionary.org/isan?sd_query=isan 

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva
[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai_Noi_script
[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaification 

 

 

[Faraday]

Thank you. Very informative.

According to travelfish "Isaan: People & history"

The name Isaan means "land of Ishana" derived from the Sanskrit name of K. Ishanavarman.

How accurate that is, remains to be discovered.

 

https://www.travelfish.org/beginners_detail/thailand/83

[KaptainRob]

Excellent topic and informative thread, Bluesofa.   Thanks.

To this day, my wife and her family elders still recall their Lao heritage, ancestry and dialect.  If I'm not mistaken the French were responsible for the subdivision of these ancient kingdoms in the east.

[Bluesofa]

3 hours ago, Faraday said:

Thank you. Very informative.

According to travelfish "Isaan: People & history"

The name Isaan means "land of Ishana" derived from the Sanskrit name of K. Ishanavarman.

How accurate that is, remains to be discovered.

https://www.travelfish.org/beginners_detail/thailand/83

I've been pondering this.
The only reason I can imagine that Ishanavarman might not have been mentioned is that "Īśānavarman was a monarch of the kingdom of Chenla in 7th century, which would later become the Khmer Empire".
That could possibly be due to the Thai nationalist fervour at the time. They wouldn't want to admit there was a link to anything Khmer, due to the past wars and conflicts.

I noticed the wiki page I quoted uses 'claimed' twice in one sentence, as well as 'interpretation', giving (me) the impression it could have been dubious at the time, used purely for political purposes:

Later, the national government claimed that the name "Isan" was derived from Sanskrit Īśāna, a name of Shiva they claimed referred to his rule of the northeast (Sanskrit īśānya). This interpretation was intended to reinforce Isan's identity as the northeast of Thailand, rather than as part of the Lao kingdom because of the fear of the Lao people seceding.

source: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isanavarman_I   
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Isan

 

[DesperateOldHand]

Going farther back than the eras that you quote, Isan - as many are many other regions - was largely influence by Khmer-Mon. Lao was later the greater common thread.

[Bluesofa]

17 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Excellent topic and informative thread, Bluesofa.   Thanks.

To this day, my wife and her family elders still recall their Lao heritage, ancestry and dialect.  If I'm not mistaken the French were responsible for the subdivision of these ancient kingdoms in the east.

Thanks KaptainRob.

Your comment is great, because at least some Thais aren't denying their Laos heritage. Can I possibly ask how they're aware of this?

I'm asking because this is where it usually becomes political, all down to the 'nationalist' attitude of the Thai education system.
So many Thais I've spoken to and talked about Isan originally being Laos have denied it flatly. Also insisting they speak passa Isan, not passa Laos. Sure, the two have now split apart quite a bit, due the the Thai influence.
It seems it's due to being 'taught' only history which glorified Siam. Anything considered negative isn't mentioned. Isan originally being Laos isn't taught - not to anyone I've spoken to anyway.

The French protectorate of Laos was from 1893 to 1953.
In 1886, Auguste Pavie was named vice-consul to Luang Prabang and was in charge of expeditions occurring in Laotian territory.

I read an account (I haven't able to find the reference to it for a while) of how Rama V heard of the French 'advance' towards Siam, and sent one of his generals to investigate.
The Siamese general, having engaged Pavie discovered he was mapping the area. Pavie admitted he didn't know where the Siam/Laos boundary was.
The Siamese general took the opportunity to bullsh.. Pavie, telling him the border was the Mekong River.
Pavie said the French would respect the border, giving Siam control by default over what is now Isan.
Siam effectively ignored the area for decades.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_protectorate_of_Laos 

[Bluesofa]

1 hour ago, DesperateOldHand said:

Going farther back than the eras that you quote, Isan - as many are many other regions - was largely influence by Khmer-Mon. Lao was later the greater common thread.

Yes absolutely.

I've read before that centuries ago, the Royal Court spoke Khmer, not Thai. Here's an example I've found:

Monarch at the time: K. Narai of Ayutthaya (1656 to 1688)

"the palace was walled into an expanded and forbidding edifice, the gates almost always shut;
royal titles became extremely complex and formal; the Khmer-based special language
of the palace may have been instituted in his reign"

source: https://so06.tci-thaijo.org/index.php/pub_jss/article/download/186846/167660/866939 
(page 59)

I also remember reading (yet another lack of a link I'm afraid) about a ferang in a Bangkok taxi.
He noticed the taxi driver had a Buddha charm-thing hanging from his rear-view mirror.

As the ferang normally lived in Cambodia, he asked the taxi driver about the charm, and why it had Khmer script on it.
The driver denied it vehemently, saying it was written in Pali script (the language used by monks).

Pali has never been a written language and has relied on the text always being written in the script of each particular country. 

[Rookiescot]

All these borders and the "Kingdoms" they included have been utterly fluid since before westerners had even found SE asia.

Kingdoms rose and fell.

Kingdoms in other countries also invaded and took lands.

The borders only really stabilized when western powers arrived. Even then there were occasional infractions.

Thai's pride themselves on the fact they were never colonised but the truth is Thailand was the part of south east asia nobody wanted and it also served as a buffer between the UK and France. 

[BigHewer]

1 hour ago, Bluesofa said:

So many Thais I've spoken to and talked about Isan originally being Laos have denied it flatly. Also insisting they speak passa Isan, not passa Laos. Sure, the two have now split apart quite a bit, due the the Thai influence.
It seems it's due to being 'taught' only history which glorified Siam. Anything considered negative isn't mentioned. Isan originally being Laos isn't taught - not to anyone I've spoken to anyway.

Great thread Bluesofa, a very enjoyable read. I highly recommend the Laos National Museum in Vientiane  for a “subjective” take on this issue. 

I was there in 2003 and was fascinated/stunned by the place. There is a goodie and baddie theme all through the exhibits. (Soviet Union and China are the goodies; USA and Thailand the baddies). They pull no punches on the cultural history of Isaan.

[Bluesofa]

14 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

All these borders and the "Kingdoms" they included have been utterly fluid since before westerners had even found SE asia.

Kingdoms rose and fell.

Kingdoms in other countries also invaded and took lands.

The borders only really stabilized when western powers arrived. Even then there were occasional infractions.

Thai's pride themselves on the fact they were never colonised but the truth is Thailand was the part of south east asia nobody wanted and it also served as a buffer between the UK and France. 

The borders did change, like you say - kingdoms rose and fell.

Yes, Thailand became wedged between the British and French empires, on all their borders, establishing them permanently.

Thailand was never colonised, but when push-came-to-shove, they'd always back down.
Like the Japanese invasion in December 1941. When threatened, the Thai navy fought for five hours until the Thai prime minister Plaek Phibunsongkhram who went missing  for hours, when found 'allowed' the Japanese to walk in to Thailand.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Thailand
 

 

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

The borders did change, like you say - kingdoms rose and fell.

Yes, Thailand became wedged between the British and French empires, on all their borders, establishing them permanently.

Thailand was never colonised, but when push-came-to-shove, they'd always back down.
Like the Japanese invasion in December 1941. When threatened, the Thai navy fought for five hours until the Thai prime minister Plaek Phibunsongkhram who went missing  for hours, when found 'allowed' the Japanese to walk in to Thailand.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Thailand
 

Not sure they had any choice but to allow the Japanese in. The Thai armed forces were in no state to resist and lets face it Thailand owed neither France or the UK any favors' given how it had been treated by both countries.

[Mohandas]

45 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

All these borders and the "Kingdoms" they included have been utterly fluid since before westerners had even found SE asia.

Kingdoms rose and fell.

Kingdoms in other countries also invaded and took lands.

The borders only really stabilized when western powers arrived. Even then there were occasional infractions.

Thai's pride themselves on the fact they were never colonised but the truth is Thailand was the part of south east asia nobody wanted and it also served as a buffer between the UK and France. 

Thanks in part to HM King Mongkut......and later King Chulalongkorn.

Crafty diplomats and statesman.

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, Mohandas said:

Thanks in part to HM King Mongkut......and later King Chulalongkorn.

Crafty diplomats and statesman.

Really? I think its more a case of lets not annoy the western powers because we cant beat them.

[Bluesofa]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Not sure they had any choice but to allow the Japanese in. The Thai armed forces were in no state to resist and lets face it Thailand owed neither France or the UK any favors' given how it had been treated by both countries.

I do take your point, even though the Thai prime minister was given (minima) warning of this:

[quote]
There is a possibility of imminent Japanese invasion of your country. If you are attacked, defend yourselves. The preservation of the true independence and sovereignty of Thailand is a British interest, and we shall regard an attack on you as an attack upon ourselves.
— Prime Minister Winston Churchill's message to Field Marshal Phibun Songkhram."
[end quote]

It was interesting the Thai navy engaged the Japanese for five hours, even though they were listed as the least capable of the services.
I suppose it's a different attitude, if there was a determination to fight.
The Thai army were listed as being outnumbered two-to-one by the Japanese.

 

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

I do take your point, even though the Thai prime minister was given (minima) warning of this:

[quote]
There is a possibility of imminent Japanese invasion of your country. If you are attacked, defend yourselves. The preservation of the true independence and sovereignty of Thailand is a British interest, and we shall regard an attack on you as an attack upon ourselves.
— Prime Minister Winston Churchill's message to Field Marshal Phibun Songkhram."
[end quote]

It was interesting the Thai navy engaged the Japanese for five hours, even though they were listed as the least capable of the services.
I suppose it's a different attitude, if there was a determination to fight.
The Thai army were listed as being outnumbered two-to-one by the Japanese.

At that point in the war the UK could send NO assistance to Thailand in order to fight the Japanese.

It sounds like a rather desperate attempt by Churchill to get the Thais to fight a war they could not win. I understand why he would do such a thing but it mattered not a jot because the Thais knew no help would be forthcoming. 

Anyway this is getting very off topic. Perhaps a conversation via PM would be better.

[DesperateOldHand]

Isan Writers, Thai Literature: Writing and Regionalism in Modern Thailand. 

Martin B. Platt.

[DesperateOldHand]

23 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

I do take your point, even though the Thai prime minister was given (minima) warning of this:

[quote]
There is a possibility of imminent Japanese invasion of your country. If you are attacked, defend yourselves. The preservation of the true independence and sovereignty of Thailand is a British interest, and we shall regard an attack on you as an attack upon ourselves.
— Prime Minister Winston Churchill's message to Field Marshal Phibun Songkhram."
[end quote]

It was interesting the Thai navy engaged the Japanese for five hours, even though they were listed as the least capable of the services.
I suppose it's a different attitude, if there was a determination to fight.
The Thai army were listed as being outnumbered two-to-one by the Japanese.

All of which is contradictory, as Phibun was a great admirer of the Japanese Imperial system. 

It was said that there was an semi-open invitation extended to the Japanese - hence the occupation. These speculations have been debated and challenged over the years by assorted scholars and historians.

[Bluesofa]

11 hours ago, DesperateOldHand said:

Isan Writers, Thai Literature: Writing and Regionalism in Modern Thailand. 

Martin B. Platt.

Thanks for the post.

I did a search, and saw that there are just a few pages of the book on Google Books.

I noticed on the very first page of the book it says:
"The word Isan itself is of Pali-Sanskrit origin and simply means 'northeast direction'"
and quotes as a reference the Encyclopedia of the Royal Institute of Medicine Bangkok 1982.

(what an institute of medicine had to do with defining the word 'Isan' I don't know)

However, this seems to further throw doubt on the text in my OP, that "the national government claimed that the name "Isan" was derived from Sanskrit Īśāna, a name of Shiva"

source: https://books.google.com/books/about/Isan_Writers_Thai_Literature.html?id=kSmwBgAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y 

   

[DesperateOldHand]

A number of well written and researched books - regarding Isaan history and social order - are quite available, if one knows where to look - Thai and foreign languages.

 

Also....back issues/archival of The Journal of the Siam Society is a wealth of competent resources. 

As well as: silpa-mag.com and reurnthai.com

[Bluesofa]

52 minutes ago, DesperateOldHand said:

A number of well written and researched books - regarding Isaan history and social order - are quite available, if one knows where to look - Thai and foreign languages.

Also....back issues/archival of The Journal of the Siam Society is a wealth of competent resources. 

As well as: silpa-mag.com and reurnthai.com

Indeed in my OP, source [3] was produced by Akiko Iijima, a gentleman who seems to be accredited with a lot of research here:  https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Akiko-Iijima  most linked to Thai history.

His pdf was listed as "Journal of the Siam Society, Vol. 106, 2018" at the footer of each page. I wasn't quite certain why they published his text, but it was interesting all the same.