News Forum - Thailand News Today | Thailand no longer considers Covid “dangerous infectious disease”

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, Stevejm said:

Not quite. See my reply to @longwood50

I misread the convo.

 

I was thinking of when they opened back up and were allowing visitors in through the Sandbox Program 

 

My bad....

[Stevejm]

3 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I misread the convo.

I was thinking of when they opened back up and were allowing visitors in through the Sandbox Program 

My bad....

No problem. I have been in Thailand throughout the whole pandemic and have been watching developments very carefully so I have a pretty good recollection of what happened.

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Stevejm said:

No problem. I have been in Thailand throughout the whole pandemic and have been watching developments very carefully so I have a pretty good recollection of what happened.

It was a bit surreal experience for me(well for a lot of people)

 

My wife went back to Thailand about 2 months before and was stuck there

 

I was alone in Canada, stuck here 

My sister and brother were both in ICU in the US with covid and almost died 

 

While Thailand, in that moment, wasn't experiencing covid all that much

 

So it was a weird dynamic for us....

[Stevejm]

40 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

It was a bit surreal experience for me(well for a lot of people)

My wife went back to Thailand about 2 months before and was stuck there

I was alone in Canada, stuck here 

My sister and brother were both in ICU in the US with covid and almost died 

While Thailand, in that moment, wasn't experiencing covid all that much

So it was a weird dynamic for us....

I am actually glad that I was in Thailand during the pandemic. Thailand had the first case outside China and I was concerned that the whole country would be ravaged by the virus but in fact it was taken seriously very quickly and in 2020 cases were very low unlike my home country ( UK) where it wasn’t taken seriously and they imposed devastating broad brush measures like national lockdowns as an afterthought and relied on vaccination and treatment as a solution to the problem. You will see that certain moaners and groaners on this forum slag off Thailand’s response to the pandemic but they complain about everything whether they have a basis or not. As an example Thailand was ranked 4th in the world in Covid response by the Lowry Institute as of March 2021 so it can’t have been that bad.

https://interactives.lowyinstitute.org/features/covid-performance/

I lost a contract for a new job due to travel restrictions ( in TH and other countries) which didn’t thrill me but all things considered I can’t complain.

 I am really pleased that mandatory measures have been dropped now and the government is promoting acceptance of Covid as a non dangerous disease ( to get back on topic) so hopefully things will get back to normal soon.

[longwood50]

7 hours ago, Stevejm said:

Really? Take a look at this. It wasn’t just foreigners also Thais returning from overseas.

And do you really think the local authorities might have been biased in terms of their reporting?  The fact is that travel into Thailand was severely restricted and people tested before flying.  And somehow we are suppose to believe they were the primary source of transmission.  

[Stevejm]

16 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

And do you really think the local authorities might have been biased in terms of their reporting?  The fact is that travel into Thailand was severely restricted and people tested before flying.  And somehow we are suppose to believe they were the primary source of transmission.  

You obviously believe what you want to believe. If you have evidence to contradict the official figures please provide it. The incubation period for Covid varied significantly so it is entirely believable that people who tested negative before flying tested positive whilst in quarantine on arrival especially for people arriving from places like UK where people were very lax about taking basic precautions.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-background-information/wuhan-novel-coronavirus-epidemiology-virology-and-clinical-features

[longwood50]

On 8/17/2022 at 11:56 AM, Stevejm said:

You obviously believe what you want to believe

And you believe what you want to. The fact is when Covid first started there were very few cases and the government not just here in Thailand but around the world was running around like "the sky is falling"  They were imposing draconian curfews, mandatory quarantines, mask mandates, business closures, and travel bans. 

Now with some time passed, Sweden who did the least with no mask mandate or shutdowns now has a lower rate than much touted Norway who early on imposed severe restrictions. 

The fact is the government here in Thailand is finally coming to recognize that despite all the efforts there is  very little that can be done to stem the spread of a virus and that you have to learn to live with it not try to have the illusion that you can stop its spread.,  Hence they are removing the restrictions not because Covid has stopped but rather that efforts to stem it are innefective. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[Stevejm]

56 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

The fact is the government here in Thailand is finally coming to recognize that despite all the efforts there is  very little that can be done to stem the spread of a virus and that you have to learn to live with it not try to have the illusion that you can stop its spread.,  Hence they are removing the restrictions not because Covid has stopped but rather that efforts to stem it are innefective. 

You forgot to mention that most of the population has been vaccinated which is one of the reasons why it has been changed in status from a “ dangerous infectious disease” to an “ infectious disease under watch” Anyway things are moving in the right direction so it’s time to move on isn’t it?

What you said about Sweden not having draconian mandatory restrictions in place is partially correct but you didn’t mention that they had many recommended measures in place and the effectiveness of the recommended measures was monitored constantly. You also forgot to mention that Sweden had a ban on entry of travelers from outside the EU/ EEA in place from March  2020 until April of this year.

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2022/03/sweden-to-lift-ban-on-entry-from-all-countries/

So I would say that your contention that Sweden decided that the virus could not be controlled is incorrect. They just decided to do it using voluntary measures rather than mandatory restrictions ( apart from the above mentioned travel ban). They also have very high vaccination rates.

And by the way Sweden actually imposed stricter restrictions as late as January this year due to the increased community transmission.

https://www.government.se/articles/2022/01/stricter-infection-control-measures-to-be-introduced-on-12-january-2022/

 

[longwood50]

5 hours ago, Stevejm said:

You forgot to mention that most of the population has been vaccinated which is one of the reasons why it has been changed in status from a “ dangerous infectious disease” to an “ infectious disease under watch”

You believe but I think that is rationalizing.  The fact is that hospitalization and death are linked to age, and cormorbidities not to vacination. 



Even before the vaccines, 92% of people who got covid did not need to be hospitalized. 

If a person had a cormorbidity their chance of death increased 12 fold.   



So the vaccines did not "prevent" in any great measure the risk of contracting covid but rather lessened its severity.  That may have prevented some deaths predominately in the older patients with cormorbidies but for the vast majority of people the vaccine was like chicken soup for a cold.  It didn't do any harm, but it did not do much. 



It is my firm belief that the world including Thailand just recognize  their efforts were doing a very good job of strangling their economies and precious little to prevent the spread of Covid so they finally recognized that reality and relaxed the measures.  Not because Covid was down, quite the reverse but because the measures were not doing any measurable good. 

https://www.mdedge.com/hematology-oncology/article/224039/coronavirus-updates/comorbidities-increase-covid-19-deaths-factor

[Marc26]

6 hours ago, longwood50 said:

And you believe what you want to. The fact is when Covid first started there were very few cases and the government not just here in Thailand but around the world was running around like "the sky is falling"  They were imposing draconian curfews, mandatory quarantines, mask mandates, business closures, and travel bans. 

Now with some time passed, Sweden who did the least with no mask mandate or shutdowns now has a lower rate than much touted Norway who early on imposed severe restrictions. 

The fact is the government here in Thailand is finally coming to recognize that despite all the efforts there is  very little that can be done to stem the spread of a virus and that you have to learn to live with it not try to have the illusion that you can stop its spread.,  Hence they are removing the restrictions not because Covid has stopped but rather that efforts to stem it are innefective. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You continuously, and I would say disengenuously at this point to fit your agenda, keep leaving out the fact the 1st variant was much more deadly.......

Which is the main factor in how governments are responding to Covid now...........

[Stevejm]

8 hours ago, longwood50 said:

So the vaccines did not "prevent" in any great measure the risk of contracting covid but rather lessened its severity

I agree with that statement to some extent but now that more data is available it also suggests that vaccination statistically improves chances of not contracting the virus.

https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf

I think the lower severity of the currently circulating variants is a significant factor in governments dropping measures too.

[Stevejm]

10 hours ago, longwood50 said:

You believe but I think that is rationalizing.  The fact is that hospitalization and death are linked to age, and cormorbidities not to vacination. 



Even before the vaccines, 92% of people who got covid did not need to be hospitalized. 

If a person had a cormorbidity their chance of death increased 12 fold.   



So the vaccines did not "prevent" in any great measure the risk of contracting covid but rather lessened its severity.  That may have prevented some deaths predominately in the older patients with cormorbidies but for the vast majority of people the vaccine was like chicken soup for a cold.  It didn't do any harm, but it did not do much. 



It is my firm belief that the world including Thailand just recognize  their efforts were doing a very good job of strangling their economies and precious little to prevent the spread of Covid so they finally recognized that reality and relaxed the measures.  Not because Covid was down, quite the reverse but because the measures were not doing any measurable good. 

https://www.mdedge.com/hematology-oncology/article/224039/coronavirus-updates/comorbidities-increase-covid-19-deaths-factor

I actually don’t understand what your point is. Do you think that you can diminish the seriousness of the disease by pointing out that older people and people with underlying health issues have worse outcomes than younger, healthier people? That is obviously the case and is the case with any illness but those people are still someone’s family members and shouldn’t be written off as unimportant.

The fact is that the Thailand government along with many others have dropped mandatory measures against the spread of Covid because current variants are less serious  than earlier ones and populations are vaccinated. I think we should be focused on the future rather than trying to claim that all the measures taken were a waste of time which you can’t prove anyway.The UK is about to commence a new vaccination programme with a new vaccine which I don’t think they would do if they didn’t think it was worthwhile given the extensive experience they already have.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55045639

[longwood50]

10 hours ago, Stevejm said:

The fact is that the Thailand government along with many others have dropped mandatory measures against the spread of Covid because current variants are less serious  than earlier ones and populations are vaccinated.

92% of the people who got the first variant did not even require hospitalization. 

Try again with another rationalization. 

 

[longwood50]

11 hours ago, Stevejm said:

I actually don’t understand what your point is. Do you think that you can diminish the seriousness of the disease

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/covid-infections-on-the-rise-in-44-provinces-over-30000-new-cases-a-day/

As said, they have finally recognized that wearing masks, stopping alcohol sales, closing businesses, restricting travel was not accomplishing anything.  If vaccinations were so effective please explain the following report today in Thailand. 

[Stevejm]

32 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/covid-infections-on-the-rise-in-44-provinces-over-30000-new-cases-a-day/

As said, they have finally recognized that wearing masks, stopping alcohol sales, closing businesses, restricting travel was not accomplishing anything.  If vaccinations were so effective please explain the following report today in Thailand. 

Restrictions have been dropped and cases have gone up no surprise there. The doctor quoted in the article is still recommending that people try to avoid infection and wear masks in the presence of large numbers of people. Precautions are on a voluntary basis now. Don’t you think that is a good thing?
Vaccinations seems to be more effective at preventing or reducing serious illness so what do you want me to explain? 

[Stevejm]

1 hour ago, longwood50 said:

92% of the people who got the first variant did not even require hospitalization. 

Try again with another rationalization. 

There were hardly any infections in Thailand from the first variant. How about the Delta variant? That was more dangerous than the first variant wasn’t it? As I recall most of the restrictions and the mask mandate weren’t imposed until Delta became the dominant variant. Restrictions have been dropped now and most of the population has been vaccinated now so I don’t really understand what your point is. Do you want to prolong the misery by trying to prove a point?Get over it and look to the future. 

[longwood50]

2 hours ago, Stevejm said:

There were hardly any infections in Thailand from the first variant.

LOL yes I know.  North Korea had none and China had almost none.  

Also the the Thailand Tourist Authority stated tourism would return to its normal 30 million tourists. 

The government broadcasts only what it wants you to believe.  Also "hint" if you don't test, you don't find and Thailand did precious little testing. 

One way or another if your statement is true, then the government imposed draconian measures despite having almost no infections and now it is 30,000 per day and the measures are being reduced.  Game, Set, Match.

[longwood50]

2 hours ago, Stevejm said:

Vaccinations seems to be more effective at preventing or reducing serious illness so what do you want me to explain? 

Vaccinations seem to help reduce the seriousness of the illness.  Masks are like chicken soup for a cold.  They may make you feel better, and do no harm, but as my doctor told me, we can treat you and your cold will last 14 days or we can do nothing and it will go away on its own in about two weeks. 

Same with masks, they may have made some people feel better but Sweden did nothing with masks and its rate of covid infection is less than Norway, Spain and a good number of its adjacent countries like Estonia.  

I can raise an umbrella to protect me from a meteor but the fact that I didn't get hit by a meteor is not proof that the umbrella did any good.  The same with masks.  They "may" prevent someone who coughs or sneezes from spreading droplets into the air.  They do nothing for the person wearing the mask if their is covid in the air and the person inhales.  

As said, we now have 30,000 cases per day instead of a handful and the pandemic is no longer a problem.  No the pandemic is still here we are just choosing to do the only rational thing after having exausted all other possible responses and that is to learn to co-exist with it. 

 

[Stevejm]

8 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Vaccinations seem to help reduce the seriousness of the illness.

Yes and that is important 

8 hours ago, longwood50 said:

Sweden did nothing with masks and its rate of covid infection is less than Norway, Spain and a good number of its adjacent countries like Estonia

Sweden recommended masks on public transport and put many recommendations in place including mask use. See below. They didn’t have lockdowns but did ask people to work from home and avoid contact with others 

https://www.government.se/articles/2022/01/stricter-infection-control-measures-to-be-introduced-on-12-january-2022/

8 hours ago, longwood50 said:

As said, we now have 30,000 cases per day instead of a handful and the pandemic is no longer a problem.  No the pandemic is still here we are just choosing to do the only rational thing after having exausted all other possible responses and that is to learn to co-exist with it. 

The case numbers are high but serious cases requiring hospitalization are low probably  thanks to vaccination. Yes we have to learn to live with it. It’s now up to the individual what measures to take.

[longwood50]

8 hours ago, Stevejm said:

Sweden recommended masks

Yep and they did not close businesses, did not institute lockdowns, did not shut down incoming tourists, did not have quarantines.  Yet suprise surprise, their rate of Covid infection less than Norway, and Spain.  Also many other countries.  Those measures were like the Chicken Soup for a cold.  Didn't do any harm, but didn't do any good.  Oh I mispoke about the no harm.  It killed the economies in most countries particularly Thailand.  The proof is happening right now. Despite having the country vaccinated Covid infections are rising.  They "may be" less severe but just like getting a flu shot does not stop a person from contracting the flu, getting a Covid shot has limited effectiveness in preventing a person from contracting covid. 




https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/ccsa-spokesperson-says-30000-covid-infections-per-day?fbclid=IwAR3g-cIBSSaPn7PD0kjyFHg4d2z1oqQTyPV0Xrks_oYHESEXgWM-bQGmHzg

[Stevejm]

18 hours ago, longwood50 said:

said, we now have 30,000 cases per day instead of a handful and the pandemic is no longer a problem.  No the pandemic is still here we are just choosing to do the only rational thing after having exausted all other possible responses and that is to learn to co-exist with it. 

I can’t reply to your latest post for some reason but my final comment is:

Judging countries’ responses to Covid with the benefit of hindsight isn’t clever. It just makes you look like a smarta**
Thailand is moving in the right direction now and that’s the main thing. Vaccination is reducing serious impacts from the virus ( the latest variant is not as bad anyway) to a manageable level so the increased infection numbers are less relevant than they used to be.

[longwood50]

1 hour ago, Stevejm said:

Judging countries’ responses to Covid with the benefit of hindsight isn’t clever. It just makes you look like a smarta**

Well you and I will just have to agree to disagree.  I am not blaming Thailand alone.  I think the majority of the world hit Covid with actions in the mistaken belief that they could do something to stop it.  I now believe all of the countries including Thailand are recognizing that Covid is just another one of the many diseases that people are going to have to learn to live with.  

[rc1]

23 hours ago, longwood50 said:

As said, they have finally recognized that wearing masks, stopping alcohol sales, closing businesses, restricting travel was not accomplishing anything.

Great observation.

History will look back on all these measures as ineffective.

Someone remind me again why 90% of Thais are still masking everywhere?

"Not accomplishing anything." sums it up well. 

Gladly, this is dropping, slowly but surely, 1% a day.... Towards end of the years masked up people will be in the minority, some sanity will be prevailing. 

 

 

[rc1]

1 hour ago, Stevejm said:

I can’t reply to your latest post for some reason but my final comment is:

Judging countries’ responses to Covid with the benefit of hindsight isn’t clever. It just makes you look like a smarta**
Thailand is moving in the right direction now and that’s the main thing. Vaccination is reducing serious impacts from the virus ( the latest variant is not as bad anyway) to a manageable level so the increased infection numbers are less relevant than they used to be.

Reasonable summary, but hindsight is all we have when commenting on past decisions.... Don't think that makes you an ass.

Criticism of history is valid, lessons learnt. 

[Stevejm]

43 minutes ago, rc1 said:

Reasonable summary, but hindsight is all we have when commenting on past decisions.... Don't think that makes you an ass.

Criticism of history is valid, lessons learnt. 

Fair enough. I delete the ass comment which was really a reaction to tone of some of his earlier comments and was unnecessary in hindsight. I still think that Thailand did fairly well at dealing with the pandemic especially in the early days . At least they didn’t have lockdowns that shut down the whole country like UK did ( where they paid factory workers to stay at home for months). The point now is that the government is moving on, the borders are open and I am looking forward to a trip to UK for Xmas without all of the hassles of last year’s trip. If people here are slow to drop the usage of masks it’s up to them isn’t it? If it helps protect infected people from breathing viruses over others it’s not a totally bad thing. I know someone who works in an international school in Bangkok who has to do an ATK twice a week so a positive test can still have serious consequences even if people don’t get ill and I won’t begrudge them doing whatever they think helps to stay virus free.