American expats in Thailand continue to urge US to provide vaccines to citizens overseas

[Stardust]

5 hours ago, Stonker said:

This is so blinkered and ignorant it barely merits a reply.

Thais (or anyone else, now including Brits) in Europe do not have the "same rights" as members of the EU, even married or with a visa.  It's simply rubbish.

Of course SOME rights are the same, including most of those you've cherry picked - in most of Europe there is NO entitlement to "get social security and health insurance" just because you're in the country "legally" (with a valid visa).

It's just rubbish, and that's being polite. 

A visa that gives you a temporary right to be in a country doesn't confer the same rights as a national of that country - it gives you some but not others, in any and every country, and they vary from country to country.

The idea that a temporary visa to any country gives you the same rights as a national from that country is just so stupid it defies belief.

Absolute rubbish what you are saying and just spreading false informations. Because you know really nothing about european law or German law, I mean really nothing! For the title you apply in Eurooe and not over a visa , with the visa you only entering! . And by the way I know the procedere because I helped to do it and also my wife and relatives have a Thai passport. You show me again know nothing about visas and the procedere to get a title. You just mixing Thai tourists with Thai people who live or work in Europe! Pure garbage and Ignorance from you. You want to teach Thais about Thailand and Europeans about Europe! I know the procedere and the law because I made already for friends and relatives! Do you understand that?!

[TobyAndrews]

7 hours ago, Stonker said:

No they don't - what absolute tripe.

What right of residency do they have?  Or right to work? A visa on arrival?

They have the same rights to a Covid vaccine, but it's absurd to draw comparisons based on one factor in isolation.

WRONG.

Thais have a long list of rights to be treated by the NHS, even if they are only visiting.

For instance break a leg in Thailand - the Thais will be galloping to treat you with Baht sign in their eyes, and they will charge a lot more than a Thai. Thai Ambulances will be breaking speed limits and jumping red light to reach you first for the money.

In the UK, this is an accident and a Thai will be treated free.

You are the one writing tripe Isaan John. Source Citizens Advice - Health.

[Stardust]

54 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Absolute rubbish what you are saying and just spreading false informations. Because you know really nothing about european law or German law, I mean really nothing! For the title you apply in Eurooe and not over a visa , with the visa you only entering! . And by the way I know the procedere because I helped to do it and also my wife and relatives have a Thai passport. You show me again know nothing about visas and the procedere to get a title. You just mixing Thai tourists with Thai people who live or work in Europe! Pure garbage and Ignorance from you. You want to teach Thais about Thailand and Europeans about Europe! I know the procedere and the law because I made already for friends and relatives! Do you understand that?!

Rubbish Thais get social security and health insurance and the title but not by a visa they apply in Europe. Or they have a employer and then get all rights like every european including health insurance and social security. STOP SPREADING LIES AND FALSE INFORMATIONS!

[Stardust]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

... so the German embassies are all wrong ...

... and the German Ministry of the Interior when they say that under Section 12 of the Nationality Act "one aim of German nationality law is to avoud creating multiple nationality through naturalization as far as possible." ...

... and the EU (Schengen Visa Info) when they say that "you have to give up your previous nationality unless: ..." ....

... it's a hard call, but on balance I think I'll go along with the Interior Ministry's, the Embassies' and the EU's views ...

You have no knowledge about German law and don't understand even the difference between a tourist and living or working in Germany. Every Thai who live or work in Thailand get a healthinsurance and social security and thats by the law of Germany. You are spreading only lies and false informations and talking about visa and even not understand the difference in europe between living and visiting! Visa is only for entering and visa system is total different than the Thai visa system! To compare Thailand and Germany with the same rights for foreigner is absolute nonsens. And especially if you talk to sombody where one part Thai and the other part European is. You really think they don't know the difference and the laws if they have 2 passports?! How dare are you? But spreading pure garbage and lies about a country you never been and have no knowledge and talking like you know it better as the one who born there or Thais who living there is pure ignorance and also for people who know the procedure and laws by own experience. 

[Stardust]

7 hours ago, Stonker said:

Your ignorance defies belief, but being generous maybe it's a language problem.

What do you mean by "living in"?  Working? Resident?  Naturalised?  Or just there on a visa, which is what I and anyone else commenting here is talking about?

To keep it simple, take the nearest visa Germany has to an AO Retirement Extension. You claim to know the laws of your country, so you name it - it shouldn't be hard. Does that give you "full access health care and social security" and all other rights a national has (residency, employment, etc) ?

Or just take the normal tourist visa, if the Retirement extension is beyond you.  Does that give you full rights, etc?

Of course it doesn't, any more than it does for a German in Thailand, nor does it in any country although obviously every country is different.

Sorry (OK, I'm not, as there are limits to my patience), but the idea that just by getting a visa to visit a country you get the same rights to "full access health care and social security" and every other right that a national has who lives there and has worked there all their life just defies belief.   I've simply never come across this level of asinine ignorance before.

You even doesnt know that the visa system is complete different than Thailand! We have only visas for entering and if you want to stay or retirement you apply in the Germany to get your title! It is called " Aufenthaltsgenehmigung und Titel" . This you get into your passport and allowed to stay. We have a " Auslaenderbehoerde" for that. You have absolute no knowledge thats why you not understand the difference between a visa in europe and a title or the difference between Thai visa system they do everything over visas. It is not regulatet over visas in Germany they are only for entering ,visits or tourists! And you do not apply to stay over a embassy alsways in Germany after entering! You wrote to somebody how hatd it is to get a retirement vis for the eu then I knew you doesnt know anything and a liar ,because it doesn' t work like that and such doesn't exist! You just thinking it is the same visa system like Thailand.

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, TobyAndrews said:

Yes well let us take this simple point which you omitted. You stated  "SiamBioscience  has never produced a vaccine and has apparently to produce one dose commercially"

It is up there above in your post. Yet CTV news anounced SiamBioscience have delivered to The Thailand Ministry of Health early this month. Before the expected date of 7th of June.

Squirm out of that . . .

Not omitted, nor is any squirming required,   since what you say I "stated" is incorrect as YOU'VE CHANGED WHAT I WROTE.

 

First, though, commercial production.

 

 

As I said, I've never disputed what you said about their vaccine production, so I simply have no idea what you're talking about or referring to.

 

I'd read the Astra Zeneca country site for Thailand ("Astra Zeneca commences new COVID-19 vaccine supply chain in Thailand") and took that as correct and up to date.

 

9 May says that they have produced samples which passed testing.

 

2 June says they "today announced the official launch of its supply chain in Thailand with the first doses of locally produced COVID-19 vaccine ready to be gradually rolled out".

 

That was the latest entry on the AZ website I had read as there had been none for over three weeks after that, hence my caveat of "apparently"  in case things had changed. Whatever reports there may have been elsewhere, on 7 June or any other time, AZ themselves had said nothing.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable to take what AZ says in their production updates as being accurate and up to date, but in case it wasn't I added the clear caveat of  "apparently".

 

The next entry dated 28 June says that "Astra Zeneca today confirmed that a total of six million doses of COVID-19 vaccine will be delivered by this week to Thailand's MoPH ... a total of 4.7 million doses of Astra Zeneca have been delivered to the MoPH to date ...", but  I hadn't read that when I commented hence the caveat in case things had changed that hadn't been updated by AZ.

 

 

MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU'VE MISQUOTED ME AND CHANGED WHAT I WROTE.

 

What I ACTUALLY wrote was:

 

"They didn't "Open a factory in Thailand to produce this vaccine, with the supervision of the British." Astra Zeneca, a multi-national pharmaceutical company (not "Britain") sold the technology to Siam BioScience to produce their vaccine, in a factory that was already there and open (but that had never produced any vaccines and has apparently yet to produce one dose commercially)."

 

That is completely different to my saying "SiamBioscience  has never produced a vaccine and has apparently to produce one dose commercially".

 

I said that they had never produced a vaccine prior to the technology transfer agreement with Astra Zeneca, which is 100% correct.

 

You, however, then unashamedly changed that, quoting me as saying that "Astra Zeneca has never produced a vaccine," etc (my bold) which has a completely different meaning: that AZ hasn't yet produced any vaccines, which is NOT what I said.

 

You misquoted me and lied about what I wrote.

 

Absolutely puerile.

[Stonker]

3 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You even doesnt know that the visa system is complete different than Thailand!

Of course it's completely different. That's the whole point I'm making, which you've obviously missed.

 

7 minutes ago, Stardust said:

We have only visas for entering and if you want to stay or retirement you apply in the Germany to get your title! It is called " Aufenthaltsgenehmigung und Titel" . This you get into your passport and allowed to stay. We have a " Auslaenderbehoerde" for that. You have absolute no knowledge thats why you not understand the difference between a visa in europe and a title or the difference between Thai visa system they do everything over visas. It is not regulatet over visas in Germany they are only for entering ,visits or tourists! And you do not apply to stay over a embassy alsways in Germany after entering! 

I'm sorry, I simply have no idea what this means, apart from the German which is the only part which is intelligible.

 

9 minutes ago, Stardust said:

You wrote to somebody how hatd it is to get a retirement vis for the eu then I knew you doesnt know anything and a liar ,because it doesn' t work like that and such doesn't exist! You just thinking it is the same visa system like Thailand.

No I didn't. I've never said anything remotely like that.

 

Sorry, but you're either fantasising over what's written or you simply don't understand it.

 

As I said, I think I'll go along with your Embassies', your Interior Ministry's and the EU's official views. As you think they're wrong, take it up with them.

[Stonker]

59 minutes ago, Stardust said:

Every Thai who live or work in Thailand get a healthinsurance and social security and thats by the law of Germany.

Sorry, I'd missed this pearl of wisdom, whatever it means!

 

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Stardust said:

Rubbish Thais get social security and health insurance and the title but not by a visa they apply in Europe. Or they have a employer and then get all rights like every european including health insurance and social security. STOP SPREADING LIES AND FALSE INFORMATIONS!

Even better.  You quote yourself and then say that it's "rubbish"! 

 

For once we're in complete agreement

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, TobyAndrews said:

WRONG.

Thais have a long list of rights to be treated by the NHS, even if they are only visiting.

For instance break a leg in Thailand - the Thais will be galloping to treat you with Baht sign in their eyes, and they will charge a lot more than a Thai. Thai Ambulances will be breaking speed limits and jumping red light to reach you first for the money.

In the UK, this is an accident and a Thai will be treated free.

You are the one writing tripe Isaan John. Source Citizens Advice - Health.

@TobyAndrews, @Stardust has an excuse since English is clearly not his native language, but you have no such excuse.

 

How can what I say be "WRONG" when I haven't said that visitors to the UK don't have emergency treatment?

 

When I haven't  suggested there's any sort of reciprocity but have said that there's none?

 

It's one thing to attempt to reason with someone who evidently has little understanding of what's being said, but it's very different to do so with someone who deliberately misquotes you and then resorts to abusive name-calling.

 

There's evidently nothing more constructive for me to add here as the thread is now just being used for some people's own ends for some off-topic Thai-bashing, so I'm out of it.