American expats in Thailand continue to urge US to provide vaccines to citizens overseas

[King Cotton]

3 hours ago, Che said:

"the United States is leading the world"...some people will never learn.

I'm keeping out of this one!!

 

Hello, Che and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

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Happy posting

King Cotton

[King Cotton]

1 hour ago, Chosenone said:

Mother in - law just apply for vaccine.  She is a Thai national.  Her appointment is in October.

The all mighty speaks here.  live and learn about the Thai government , it took me 18 years,

Yes, sad but so true re your Mum-i-L and Thai life in general, for the country's 'ordinary' folk.

 

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[Tomschneider]

I think it’s an absolute disgrace the that IS govt gives the vaccine to incompetent foreign governments without mandating that US citizens being vaccinated first. Thailand had all this time to purchase and reserve vaccines instead it wasted that time with meaningless lockdowns and sporadic testing. Now that other countries are beginning to open up Thailand remains in lock down and some of the highest Covid infections and deaths. 
US citizens that live here have no real way to get to a vaccine, we can’t travel to the US get vaccinated and get back without going in quarantine. That is not a real option for a family with a few kids.

[King Cotton]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

All you green-bean American expats, when will you ever learn. The American Embassy will do nothing for expat Americans. Indeed, many American politicians consider expats non-citizens. Try using your Medicare overseas. You know, that insurance you've been paying into for your entire life. If you want assistance overseas, go to the Russian embassy.

Wisdom from the cornicles of a lifelong expat government contractor.

Harsh words indeed and more than warranted by the sound of things.

 

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King Cotton

[King Cotton]

48 minutes ago, yerrot said:

Biden said about covid-19, "We are all in this together, all over the world." That is a bald-faced lie. China vaxed their citizens. Can't Biden do it? Please help Americans overseas -- 9 million. We are being taxed but not vaxed. China, France, Belgium, Switzerland and other countries have met with governments to get their citizens vaxed. Americans abroad are getting anti-Biden because of this.

Only 10 states have more than 9 million Americans.

The American State Department said, "We are unable to help Americans abroad." Unable? Why?

Many Americans have children and live overseas. Doesn't Biden care about them?

Thank you.

Strong points and valid questions, here, for sure!

 

Hello, yerrot and welcome to Thaiger Talk

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[Joe]

Come on get a reality check! You are abroad spending your money and paying very little if any in US taxes. The government doesn't owe you much. Expect help with a new passport and few admin issues they do very little. But I suspect that is the case with most governments/agencies. If you get in trouble or get sick they give you a list of english speaking lawers and/or doctors. Beyond that you pretty much on your own! 

[dimitri]

10 hours ago, Jyn said:

Your wrong. The US should be obligated to help these expats because if you pay taxes to a county that you don't even live in  what's the taxes for? 

I'm sure if those still paying stopped until they got a vaccine the US would not be happy and work out and Agreement 

 

The only thing I said is that the US does not have to vaccinate their countrymen if they live in a country where they already got a vaccine.  Have you followed the discussion at all?

[Stardust]

10 hours ago, Blogosopher said:

It's only logical that America citizen expats should receive vaccines available to American citizens in the US. American citizen expats are beholden to ALL American laws including those relating to income and taxes. American embassies should provide what citizens in the USA receive since expats are beholden to ALL the laws. This should include Medicare benefits and the same income thresholds relating to working while receiving social security benefits too.

Yes but also Europeans and g7 members are involved in the vaccine donations and money donations . And German expats should ally with the us expats because Biontech/Pfizer is a German us coperation . France made already a good example how it should be. Also they should protect us from these huge scams they do and abuse the desperate situation of the people. They receive the money and donations but wanna scam the expat/foreigners or treat them like 2nd class citizens. It is a shame their behavour. For the failure of the mismanagement of the vaccination and the whole catastrophic situation in Thailand now is the Thai government and nobody else!

[Sgtsabai]

 

I am a 76 year old Vietnam veteran.  I have kidney issues, high blood pressure and poor leg circulation that makes walking difficult and running impossible.  These conditions indicate a bad outcome if I were to contract Covid.

I moved to Thailand permanently in 2010. I pay taxes on the small amount of pensions that I already paid tax on and the Social Security I receive. I vote in American elections. I have not renounced my citizenship, nor would I.

Thailand's response to vaccinations has been plagued by misinformation, false starts, and shifting narratives. The only vaccines available in quantity here is Sinovac, with Thai made AstraZeneca still ramping up in production. The number of people vaccinated is very low, and the number of fully vaccinated people is considerably lower.  Most of those vaccinated have been with Sinovac, which is not very effective in preventing the infection or spread of Covid, yet the country is already talking about reopening to travelers.  The American Embassy here has basically told us we are on our own, and to follow whatever the Thai government says, even though those directives change on a day to day basis.  As an American, I find that attitude very disturbing.  We look to the Embassy for help and guidance and get platitudes and diplomatic mumbo-jumbo.  Add to this that the delta variant is spreading in the country, the Moderna vaccine that many of us have already paid over $100 USD for and was scheduled for release to private hospitals in October, probably won't be available, and no other viable vaccines are available, and perhaps you can understand why I think of this as a combat situation.

The Chinese have vaccinated their citizens, The French are vaccinating their citizens over 55 as I write, even going so far as to work with the private hospitals to distribute vaccines around the country. The American Embassy has said in so many words "Stop asking. Our hands are tied and there is nothing we can do". President Biden has said ALL Americans and even foreign nationals in America can be vaccinated, the VA promised all Veterans vaccinations, yet we are told well that is if you are in the country, and you are there so sorry but we can't/won't do anything for you. I am still an American citizen!

We don't need to hear about rules and regulations, better known as "the book". As I've said and will continue to say, when you have been in a combat situation the first thing following the first round is the book going out the window. Covid is that first round and we are in a combat, albeit different, situation here where lives are on the line. Throw out the damn book and get us vaccinated!

People say 'well why not just hop on a plane and fly back to the States for your vaccination? That costs money, exposes us to probable Covid carriers and most of us cannot afford to just drop everything, leave houses, vehicles, and families behind and take off for 2 months on an expensive non-vacation. Some of us have physical disabilities that make the long flight to America extremely difficult, and for some, dangerous. The return is fraught with problems. First all the hoops just to qualify to return and the costs thereof. Then to make matters worse even with proof of vaccination we face two weeks confinement to either an island in an expensive approved hotel with every movement tracked on the island or an approved expensive hotel room in Bangkok that amounts to solitary confinement, all of which we have to pay for.  It adds up to a very expensive proposition.

 We need our government, which some of us fought for, and all of us are still citizens of, to come to our aid and furnish vaccines much as other countries are doing for their citizens. What happened to the idea of America leading the world in doing the right thing?

Wayne Beverly

USMC SGT 1964-1967, Vietnam 1966/67

 

[King Cotton]

1 hour ago, Tomschneider said:

I think it’s an absolute disgrace the that IS govt gives the vaccine to incompetent foreign governments without mandating that US citizens being vaccinated first. Thailand had all this time to purchase and reserve vaccines instead it wasted that time with meaningless lockdowns and sporadic testing. Now that other countries are beginning to open up Thailand remains in lock down and some of the highest Covid infections and deaths. 
US citizens that live here have no real way to get to a vaccine, we can’t travel to the US get vaccinated and get back without going in quarantine. That is not a real option for a family with a few kids.

Fair comments, for sure!

 

Hello, Tomschneider and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[TobyAndrews]

If the French can bring in the vaccines and vaccinate their citizens I do not see why other western countries cannot.

However consider this. The British with the Swedish invent a vaccine. Donate 1000s of doses to Thailand.

Open a factory in Thailand to produce this vaccine, with the supervision of the British, yet the British in Thailand cannot have this vaccine.

The West really are too kind to these Thais. They are walking all over westerners and show as much gratitude as lizards.

[Stardust]

3 hours ago, Sgtsabai said:

I am a 76 year old Vietnam veteran.  I have kidney issues, high blood pressure and poor leg circulation that makes walking difficult and running impossible.  These conditions indicate a bad outcome if I were to contract Covid.

I moved to Thailand permanently in 2010. I pay taxes on the small amount of pensions that I already paid tax on and the Social Security I receive. I vote in American elections. I have not renounced my citizenship, nor would I.

Thailand's response to vaccinations has been plagued by misinformation, false starts, and shifting narratives. The only vaccines available in quantity here is Sinovac, with Thai made AstraZeneca still ramping up in production. The number of people vaccinated is very low, and the number of fully vaccinated people is considerably lower.  Most of those vaccinated have been with Sinovac, which is not very effective in preventing the infection or spread of Covid, yet the country is already talking about reopening to travelers.  The American Embassy here has basically told us we are on our own, and to follow whatever the Thai government says, even though those directives change on a day to day basis.  As an American, I find that attitude very disturbing.  We look to the Embassy for help and guidance and get platitudes and diplomatic mumbo-jumbo.  Add to this that the delta variant is spreading in the country, the Moderna vaccine that many of us have already paid over $100 USD for and was scheduled for release to private hospitals in October, probably won't be available, and no other viable vaccines are available, and perhaps you can understand why I think of this as a combat situation.

The Chinese have vaccinated their citizens, The French are vaccinating their citizens over 55 as I write, even going so far as to work with the private hospitals to distribute vaccines around the country. The American Embassy has said in so many words "Stop asking. Our hands are tied and there is nothing we can do". President Biden has said ALL Americans and even foreign nationals in America can be vaccinated, the VA promised all Veterans vaccinations, yet we are told well that is if you are in the country, and you are there so sorry but we can't/won't do anything for you. I am still an American citizen!

We don't need to hear about rules and regulations, better known as "the book". As I've said and will continue to say, when you have been in a combat situation the first thing following the first round is the book going out the window. Covid is that first round and we are in a combat, albeit different, situation here where lives are on the line. Throw out the damn book and get us vaccinated!

People say 'well why not just hop on a plane and fly back to the States for your vaccination? That costs money, exposes us to probable Covid carriers and most of us cannot afford to just drop everything, leave houses, vehicles, and families behind and take off for 2 months on an expensive non-vacation. Some of us have physical disabilities that make the long flight to America extremely difficult, and for some, dangerous. The return is fraught with problems. First all the hoops just to qualify to return and the costs thereof. Then to make matters worse even with proof of vaccination we face two weeks confinement to either an island in an expensive approved hotel with every movement tracked on the island or an approved expensive hotel room in Bangkok that amounts to solitary confinement, all of which we have to pay for.  It adds up to a very expensive proposition.

 We need our government, which some of us fought for, and all of us are still citizens of, to come to our aid and furnish vaccines much as other countries are doing for their citizens. What happened to the idea of America leading the world in doing the right thing?

Wayne Beverly

USMC SGT 1964-1967, Vietnam 1966/67

You speak for us all, Americans and Europeans thank you Sir from our hearts!

[King Cotton]

3 hours ago, Sgtsabai said:

 . . . . We need our government, which some of us fought for, and all of us are still citizens of, to come to our aid and furnish vaccines much as other countries are doing for their citizens. What happened to the idea of America leading the world in doing the right thing?

Wayne Beverly

USMC SGT 1964-1967, Vietnam 1966/67

What a heart-felt and absorbing debut post . . . thanks for that!

 

Hello, Sgtsabai and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[Stardust]

3 hours ago, TobyAndrews said:

If the French can bring in the vaccines and vaccinate their citizens I do not see why other western countries cannot.

However consider this. The British with the Swedish invent a vaccine. Donate 1000s of doses to Thailand.

Open a factory in Thailand to produce this vaccine, with the supervision of the British, yet the British in Thailand cannot have this vaccine.

The West really are too kind to these Thais. They are walking all over westerners and show as much gratitude as lizards.

And Thais living in Europe have the same rights like Europeans and now compare to Thailand it is really a shame.

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, Sgtsabai said:

 What happened to the idea of America leading the world in doing the right thing?

It stayed an idea.

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, JamesE said:

Except for all of them. (Though they're not mandated to accept it.) https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-state-department-says-covid-19-vaccines-shipped-all-overseas-workforce-2021-04-20/

What has happened is a total clusterpharkk of Government and Political incompetence.  Australia also has (or is in the process of) vaccinated its Embassy staff and others overseas.  Why could they all not have organised for enough doses to be provided at their Embassy to all their citizens registered as living in that country - ignorance and incompetence.  I am sure that most Expats in each country could (will) have got themselves to their own Embassy if given enough notice. Those who cannot or will not miss out - fair enough. Either that or organise a plane/s trip to USA so people can get vaccinated.  If I was an American living overseas I would be seeking legal action by putting together a joint action case in a Federal Court - you guys pay taxes etc. And for those who think they should not get help - this aint no ordinary problem - this is a worldwide pandemic. All Expats should get help - not just told to join the locals in the queue because like in Thiland, they are looking after locals first.

 

[Stonker]

6 minutes ago, Stardust said:

And Thais living in Europe have the same rights like Europeans and now compare to Thailand it is really a shame.

No they don't - what absolute tripe.

What right of residency do they have?  Or right to work? A visa on arrival?

They have the same rights to a Covid vaccine, but it's absurd to draw comparisons based on one factor in isolation.

[AussieBob]

4 hours ago, Sgtsabai said:

I am a 76 year old Vietnam veteran.  I have kidney issues, high blood pressure and poor leg circulation that makes walking difficult and running impossible.  These conditions indicate a bad outcome if I were to contract Covid.

I moved to Thailand permanently in 2010. I pay taxes on the small amount of pensions that I already paid tax on and the Social Security I receive. I vote in American elections. I have not renounced my citizenship, nor would I.

Thailand's response to vaccinations has been plagued by misinformation, false starts, and shifting narratives. The only vaccines available in quantity here is Sinovac, with Thai made AstraZeneca still ramping up in production. The number of people vaccinated is very low, and the number of fully vaccinated people is considerably lower.  Most of those vaccinated have been with Sinovac, which is not very effective in preventing the infection or spread of Covid, yet the country is already talking about reopening to travelers.  The American Embassy here has basically told us we are on our own, and to follow whatever the Thai government says, even though those directives change on a day to day basis.  As an American, I find that attitude very disturbing.  We look to the Embassy for help and guidance and get platitudes and diplomatic mumbo-jumbo.  Add to this that the delta variant is spreading in the country, the Moderna vaccine that many of us have already paid over $100 USD for and was scheduled for release to private hospitals in October, probably won't be available, and no other viable vaccines are available, and perhaps you can understand why I think of this as a combat situation.

The Chinese have vaccinated their citizens, The French are vaccinating their citizens over 55 as I write, even going so far as to work with the private hospitals to distribute vaccines around the country. The American Embassy has said in so many words "Stop asking. Our hands are tied and there is nothing we can do". President Biden has said ALL Americans and even foreign nationals in America can be vaccinated, the VA promised all Veterans vaccinations, yet we are told well that is if you are in the country, and you are there so sorry but we can't/won't do anything for you. I am still an American citizen!

We don't need to hear about rules and regulations, better known as "the book". As I've said and will continue to say, when you have been in a combat situation the first thing following the first round is the book going out the window. Covid is that first round and we are in a combat, albeit different, situation here where lives are on the line. Throw out the damn book and get us vaccinated!

People say 'well why not just hop on a plane and fly back to the States for your vaccination? That costs money, exposes us to probable Covid carriers and most of us cannot afford to just drop everything, leave houses, vehicles, and families behind and take off for 2 months on an expensive non-vacation. Some of us have physical disabilities that make the long flight to America extremely difficult, and for some, dangerous. The return is fraught with problems. First all the hoops just to qualify to return and the costs thereof. Then to make matters worse even with proof of vaccination we face two weeks confinement to either an island in an expensive approved hotel with every movement tracked on the island or an approved expensive hotel room in Bangkok that amounts to solitary confinement, all of which we have to pay for.  It adds up to a very expensive proposition.

 We need our government, which some of us fought for, and all of us are still citizens of, to come to our aid and furnish vaccines much as other countries are doing for their citizens. What happened to the idea of America leading the world in doing the right thing?

Wayne Beverly

USMC SGT 1964-1967, Vietnam 1966/67

Well said Sir - I hope things work out for you sooner than later - until then stay safe.  One thing I can offer is that although the delta mutation is more contagious, the early indications are that it is not as deadly - not good - but not as bad.  

 

[Stardust]

15 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Yes and the US was one of them. In the US, everyone regardless of nationality (or even legal status), was put in the same queue. There are a lot of places in this world where its a question of "if you will get vaccinated", not "when". And while yes Thailand is slow, it's not that slow in comparison to many of it's neighbors. The Thais have started to vaccinate foreigners. Keeping in mind the French just sent the vaccines this week, and the Chinese a few weeks before that. While it is expensive, American's could easily have flown home, or even to Hawaii or Guam and got vaccinated 3-4 months ago. Spent a few weeks with family and come back to Thailand.    

Ordering of vaccines wasn't under the control of health care system, like most countries it was done by the national government. Outside of a few exceptions, most national governments screwed the pooch on the issue. Some worse than other, but still most of them. 

My european colleques in Laos get vaccinated in March and April already and nit with a chinese vaccine. Vaccination there is for everybody foreigner and Laotians and there is no extra registration for foreigners. Just come registrate and waiting aprox 30 minutes and they got their shots. They have a much higher vaccination rate than Thailand and are in the covax program. This shows the incompentence and failure of the vaccine management of the Thai government but their neighbours show that they do much better.

[AussieBob]

9 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No they don't - what absolute tripe.

What right of residency do they have?  Or right to work? A visa on arrival?

They have the same rights to a Covid vaccine, but it's absurd to draw comparisons based on one factor in isolation.

You maybe right, but in the situation where a Thai migrates to Europe or Australia or USA they do have all rights. But even if they only have a Visa, they still get most of the rights and protections as afforded to the locals. 

But I think it might be about rights to get a vaccine. As Biden has said and as doing, all people in USA are being vaccinated - not just the locals - that is also the case in Australia. I understand that this is also the case in Europe. Thailand however, is only vaccinating Expats who meet their owen needs - Expats in tourist spots like Phuket, and those who are working for a Thai company.  Expats who have lived in Thailand for years are not being looked after - despite many of them being old and with medical conditions.  When I see and hear a young Thai in Thailand say they have been vaccinated, whereas far more deserving and needing people like @Sgtsabai are still waiting to get anything (even a booking) it makes me angry too.

 

[Alavan]

19 hours ago, Eric said:

The French ambassador to Thailand was able to get finally a special authorization to bring Johnson and Johnson vaccines in Thailand to support French citizens in need. The vaccine will be administered for free to French Citizens and the vaccination campaign started  June 23rd till end of July. 

How is it that a foreign country, dependent on the US is able to provide American vaccines to its citizens while our country isn’t able to do anything?

Does not sounds too rational! 

J&J is not an US vaccine. It was researched by Janssen Pharmaceutica in Puurs, Belgium) and produced in Leiden (Holland). And EU bought a big stock of it.

[Stonker]

3 hours ago, TobyAndrews said:

 

The British with the Swedish invent a vaccine. Donate 1000s of doses to Thailand.

Open a factory in Thailand to produce this vaccine, with the supervision of the British, yet the British in Thailand cannot have this vaccine.

The West really are too kind to these Thais. They are walking all over westerners and show as much gratitude as lizards.

 

Except none of that ever happened, @TobyAndrews.

 

The British and Swedish didn't "invent" the AZ / Oxford vaccine. The team was based at Oxford uni, but it was far from all British (and none were Swedish).

 

Britain hasn't given "1000s of doses to Thailand" or anyone else. They haven't given away even one dose.

 

They didn't "Open a factory in Thailand to produce this vaccine, with the supervision of the British." Astra Zeneca, a multi-national pharmaceutical company (not "Britain") sold the technology to Siam BioScience to produce their vaccine, in a factory that was already there and open (but that had never produced any vaccines and has apparently yet to produce one dose commercially).

 

 

 

 

[Stonker]

30 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

You maybe right, but in the situation where a Thai migrates to Europe or Australia or USA they do have all rights. 

Exactly as do those from Europe, Australia or the USA who migrate to Thailand.  There's no difference whatsoever - absolutely none.

 

30 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

But even if they only have a Visa, they still get most of the rights and protections as afforded to the locals.

NO THEY DON'T!  That's completely untrue!

 

Do people on a tourist visa have the right to work in Europe, the UK, Aus or the USA? The right to full access to Medicare in Aus or the NHS in the UK?*

 

No, of course they don't! In the UK if they're working and paying the same taxes as Brits they still have to pay a hefty surcharge for access to NHS cover even if they never use it!

 

... and how about getting that elusive "visa"? 

Try getting a retirement visa in the EU, UK, USA or Aus - no equivalent even exists!

 

30 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

But I think it might be about rights to get a vaccine.

Well it "might be", but what's being claimed is reciprocity when no reciprocity exists. It's ignoring reality - there is no reciprocity, and to claim it for one thing and ignore all others is pure hypocrisy.

 

Edit: forgot the '*': for what it's worth, as a Brit and an Aussie I don't need a visa for either, but neither am I entitled to NHS in the UK or Medicare in Aus as I live here (Thailand).

 

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Stonker
as shown

[Stardust]

54 minutes ago, Stonker said:

No they don't - what absolute tripe.

What right of residency do they have?  Or right to work? A visa on arrival?

They have the same rights to a Covid vaccine, but it's absurd to draw comparisons based on one factor in isolation.

You are wrong again they have the same rights in Europe. If they are legally there or married they dont need a work permitt, can own propererty or land, can own a company or open one, get social security and health insurance. Absolute wrong again what you thonk to know and I know a lot of Thai who live in Germany!

[Stonker]

35 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

But I think it might be about rights to get a vaccine. As Biden has said and as doing, all people in USA are being vaccinated - not just the locals - that is also the case in Australia. I understand that this is also the case in Europe. Thailand however, is only vaccinating Expats who meet their owen needs - Expats in tourist spots like Phuket, and those who are working for a Thai company.  Expats who have lived in Thailand for years are not being looked after - despite many of them being old and with medical conditions.  When I see and hear a young Thai in Thailand say they have been vaccinated, whereas far more deserving and needing people like @Sgtsabai are still waiting to get anything (even a booking) it makes me angry too.

Fair enough, vaccines should be available without reference to nationality, but how about the many Thais who are "deserving and needing people" too who are still waiting for vaccines while the tourists in Phuket have been vaccinated?

 

The Thai hospital staff who haven't been vaccinated who've caught Covid from patients in the hospitals where they work, so the hospitals have to be closed?

 

I'm not defending the Thai vaccination procurement or roll out as it's way beyond indefensible, but blaming racism or nationalism for its failures and the failure to vaccinate equitably is denying reality.