Laos gets in on high speed rail project

[Thaiger]

Laos is entering a monthly meeting that was previously just Thailand and China. They will go over progress updates on plans to join Thailand to China with a high speed rail system in Thailand with Vientiane. The agreement was decided at no later than the 29th meeting of the joint committee last Friday. A proposal was suggested by the Thai side that sought a third party (Laos) in giving consistent updates on the development of the proposed connection. A new line would join Nong Khai and Vientiane. Both China and Thai concurred that the updates should become a new monthly […]

The post Laos gets in on high speed rail project appeared first on Thaiger News.

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[Alavan]

"Both sides agreed that “certain aspects” of the design would have to be “adjusted” to guarantee it met Chinese standards"
What do they mean by "Chinese standards"? Like all the crap the Chinese export?
I would prefer European or US standard.

[Poolie]

Yes, like computer equipment, cameras, cars, y'know, all the 'crap' that you spend your dole money on.

 

If you havent been sanctioned.

[TobyAndrews]

Why are they wasting money linking the two airports. This would be expensive going through populated areas, and the free airport bus only takes an hour for 51 km.

A mini bus takes 40 minutes, and maybe quicker at quiet times. Plus the mini bus leaves as soon as they are full and does not have to wait for a certain time as the official bus does. 

The claim that a taxi takes 35 vminutes I think is optomistic. The mini bus travels just as fast s a taxi, however a taxi would go immediately.

I have travelled the railway route from Korat to Nong Khai. This is much too well built.

They have put flyovers in rural areas where a farm road has to cross the railway!

Or if not underpasses. Why not railway gate crossings?

In addition, long double platform train stations at small towns. Unjustified.

Are the Chinese paying? If so the Thais are making them pay well over what is necessary.

[GeeJayVN]

How were they going from Thailand to China without involving Laos

[Tunafish]

It is about time countries become aware, that china supplies the design and the hardware, chinese companies provide the installation. All that is supplied by Thailand and Laos is the cash to fund it. They are blinded by the price, but conveniently forget about chinese quality and lack of experience. These things will come home to roast.

[Tunafish]

This is all part of the chinese Silk Rd plan: Selling high priced projects to third world countries, which they don't really need, get them in debt and beholden to china, and in a few years time when the customer can't pay the installments, they will come round to collect, in the form of resources and food stuff supplies. Just look what is going on in Africa for example.

[Tunafish]

Seriously, since when does Thailand or Laos need a high speed rail link to china????

Is there a demand for it ? No. Who is going to use it ???, who would even want to use it ???

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, TobyAndrews said:

Are the Chinese paying? If so the Thais are making them pay well over what is necessary.

The Chinese don’t pay for anything, at least not in the end. Does anyone think there is enough traffic to pay the debt load for a high speed rail line? One of the most expensive types of infrastructure projects out there. The vast majority of Belt and Road projects are not economically feasible. They exist as a method to generate employment for Chinese workers and a place to dump excess steel and cement. Thailand has a shrinking and aging population, and Laos doesn’t have much of a population to begin with. In what world does this plan make sense. The countries were sold a pig in a poke. 

[King Cotton]

36 minutes ago, GeeJayVN said:

How were they going from Thailand to China without involving Laos

Fair question!

 

Hello, GeeJayVN and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[King Cotton]

29 minutes ago, Tunafish said:

It is about time countries become aware, that china supplies the design and the hardware, chinese companies provide the installation. All that is supplied by Thailand and Laos is the cash to fund it. They are blinded by the price, but conveniently forget about chinese quality and lack of experience. These things will come home to roast.

An interesting trio of debut posts, here . . . Plenty of food for thought.

 

Hello, Tunafish and welcome to Thaiger Talk

Please feel free to tell us a bit about yourself in 'Introductions'. It's good to pick-up on those sometimes differing regional or geographical perspectives.

And check-out the Guidelines, too, when you get a free minute. They're there to help us all enjoy our time here.

Happy posting

King Cotton

[MrStretch]

I'm not a conspiracy kind of guy, but I look at China, historically, politically and economically and I see the BRI in Southeast Asia as little more than smoke and mirrors to mask what I believe is their real goal.

Yes, selling you goods to feed their factories and people is the most obvious benefit for them.

But, when you look at China historically, you see that it wants more...expansion is its policy. It's overburdened with population and needs room for its people. It has annexed neighboring countries and territories, has laid claim to the entire South China Sea, including building a military island within spitting distance of the Philippines.

In Africa, China is spreading its influence to control vast amounts of territory that would allow it to access the raw resources of the continent, but also provide the land necessary to feed its massive population.

In Asia, China's BRI is the perfect tool for a ground invasion of all the peninsula of South East Asia, from their border, all the way to Singapore.  Using the high speed rail technology they could have fighting troops throughout the peninsula in days and would control every country in a short matter of time.

Which country would be able to fight off China?  Not one of them.

The BRI is a bad deal for any country, IMO.

[AussieBob]

I too and skeptical about China's motives, but there is another reason this is going to happen that others have not talked about. There will be 'brown paper bags' given to all those politicians and businessmen that support these Chinese railway projects. The Chinese know better than all others how things work in SEAsia, and that means how to 'grease the wheels'.  The railway line will go from China all the way down to Singapore - which is their end game for trade - Hong Kong maybe also connected - but definitely Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzen etc . Thailand and Laos is the most direct route to get there - but Vietnam/Cambodia is another option if the Thai/Laos plans dont work out.  It is wise for Thailand and Laos to work together and make this happen. 

By the way - China has the world's highest amount of high speed rail - they dwarf everyone else in the world and have 2/3 of the world's total high speed railway lines.  This is happening because the Chinese recognise that rail transportation is the most efficient and cheapest form of mass and goods transport - and with high speed rail a reality, the advantage of international shipping (costs) and airlines (speed) are becoming less and less.

 

[bushav8r]

High speed into Laos will suddenly slow down at border. It is land of chill.  You can keep trying to make China look bad, but it will win. China is on the cusp of ruling the planet.

[JamesE]

15 hours ago, Alavan said:
I would prefer European or US standard.

US *passenger* train standards??? Are you nuts? :) There isn’t a single mile of high-speed rail in the US! The stuff is running all over China. I’ll go with experience.

[EdwardV]

30 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Chinese recognise that rail transportation is the most efficient and cheapest form of mass and goods transport - and with high speed rail a reality, the advantage of international shipping (costs) and airlines (speed) are becoming less and less.

 

I agreed with you right up to this point. High speed rail is used for people, standard rail is used for goods. Even then transporting goods by sea is one tenth that of rail. Keeping in mind only about a half dozen high speed rail lines in the world are profitable. All the rest are heavily subsidized by their governments. 

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

I agreed with you right up to this point. High speed rail is used for people, standard rail is used for goods. Even then transporting goods by sea is one tenth that of rail. Keeping in mind only about a half dozen high speed rail lines in the world are profitable. All the rest are heavily subsidized by their governments. 

Not so.  This is readily available on Google:  "They have significant advantages such as high transportation timeliness, high operating frequency, low transportation costs and all-weather operational capability," he said, adding this is the first time in the world that high-speed cargo trains are being run at a top speed of 350 km/h, highlighting China's innovation strengths in this area" etc etc etc.  Shipping is not going to be as cost effective as high speed rail - think Beijing to a shipyard onto a ship then all the way to Singapore - versus Beijing locally to the railway line to Singapore (and back again).  Faster cheaper and better in so many ways - that is why they are doing it.  Sure there will also be a lot of Chinese tourists going to and fro - but the main end game is the transportation of goods to Singapore.

Plus if you do the research you will see they have plans to link into the European rail-rail network - if they ever get their act together and standardise the infrastructure like the Chinese have - and they demand all other countries on their network build to the same spec infrastructure (theirs).   

Unfortunately, our election cycles in the west have focussed everything on short term issues 2-3 years maximum - the Chinese have 5, 10 and 20 year plans - no problematic election issues and people and media getting in the way of their planned progress.  

[JamesE]

18 hours ago, Alavan said:

US *passenger* train standards??? Are you nuts? :) There isn’t a single mile of high-speed rail in the US! The stuff is running all over China. I’ll go with experience.

[EdwardV]

47 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

the main end game is the transportation of goods to Singapore.

 

So they can load the goods onto ships? Singapore is a transshipment hub, not a final destination. Besides the fact shipping cargo by high speed rail is in its infancy, basically the Chinese are still studying it. Keep in mind what makes economic sense in China often doesn’t outside of China. The Chinese don’t worry if an investment can make money, just if it can generate employment. Not that I would be surprised if China does what you claim, just don’t think in the big picture it will make a difference . Global consumption peaked in 2019, and the Chinese population is entering a terminal collapse. Keep in mind Europe ships cargo by truck, not rail. Europe in total is an export economy, they don’t look to China for imports. They want ties to China to export their goods. 

[Poolie]

15 hours ago, Tunafish said:

This is all part of the chinese Silk Rd plan: Selling high priced projects to third world countries, which they don't really need, get them in debt and beholden to china, and in a few years time when the customer can't pay the installments, they will come round to collect, in the form of resources and food stuff supplies. Just look what is going on in Africa for example.

Yes, have a good look at Africa and you can apologise later. You are so far off the mark that you've only ever read Fox News or never read anything at all. More likely the latter. 

[Poolie]

13 hours ago, MrStretch said:

I'm not a conspiracy kind of guy, but I look at China, historically, politically and economically and I see the BRI in Southeast Asia as little more than smoke and mirrors to mask what I believe is their real goal.

Yes, selling you goods to feed their factories and people is the most obvious benefit for them.

But, when you look at China historically, you see that it wants more...expansion is its policy. It's overburdened with population and needs room for its people. It has annexed neighboring countries and territories, has laid claim to the entire South China Sea, including building a military island within spitting distance of the Philippines.

In Africa, China is spreading its influence to control vast amounts of territory that would allow it to access the raw resources of the continent, but also provide the land necessary to feed its massive population.

In Asia, China's BRI is the perfect tool for a ground invasion of all the peninsula of South East Asia, from their border, all the way to Singapore.  Using the high speed rail technology they could have fighting troops throughout the peninsula in days and would control every country in a short matter of time.

Which country would be able to fight off China?  Not one of them.

The BRI is a bad deal for any country, IMO.

Which countries has China annexed this last 100 years?

[AlexPTY]

15 hours ago, Tunafish said:

Seriously, since when does Thailand or Laos need a high speed rail link to china????

Is there a demand for it ? No. Who is going to use it ???, who would even want to use it ???

this idea was great few years ago when Chinese used to come by truckloads, problem is, it's not a current and a future situation, plus it will take a decade to build. My guess is that bureaucrats have to keep their positions and salaries, so they will push it until it's natural death

[KaptainRob]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

 

~  

Unfortunately, our election cycles in the west have focussed everything on short term issues 2-3 years maximum - the Chinese have 5, 10 and 20 year plans - no problematic election issues and people and media getting in the way of their planned progress.  

The Chinese plan 25, 50 or 100 years ahead and the BRI is all about securing supply lines well into the future.  This includes, shipping lanes, roads, rail and pipelines ... yes, pipelines to carry oil or gas from Europe.

>

China recognises the food and materials supply difficulties looming in the future due to over-population, lack of arable lands and deteriorating climatic conditions.  AussieBob is correct, Western nations can't plan beyond the next election and tend to rip off the electorate whilst they are in power anyway.  We may not like it but the Chinese are way smarter than us.

>

Should there ever be a major war region, say Russia/Middle East, China's BRI will ensure multiple routes of travel for goods in both directions.  Ingratiating themselves with South Pacific island nations is part of BRI to secure naval bases or port access for re-supply of cargo and fishing vessels between Antarctica, NZ and Australia where they already have a large agricultural footprint.  Cattle production in Aus, seafood and forestry in NZ etc.

>

The Laos high speed railway is already complete and testing is underway,  details from Wikipedia below:

>

 

The Boten–Vientiane railway is a 414 kilometres 1,435 mm standard gauge electrified railway under construction in Laos, between the capital Vientiane and the small town of Boten on the border with China. It is the most expensive and largest project ever to be constructed in Laos. Wikipedia

Operating speed: 160 km/h (passengers); 120 km/h (cargo)

Line length: 414 km (257 mi)

Planned opening: December 2021

Number of tracks: 1

Operator(s): Laos-China Railway Co., Ltd.

Status: Under construction

Owner: Laos-China Railway Co., Ltd.

 

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

So they can load the goods onto ships? Singapore is a transshipment hub, not a final destination. Besides the fact shipping cargo by high speed rail is in its infancy, basically the Chinese are still studying it. Keep in mind what makes economic sense in China often doesn’t outside of China. The Chinese don’t worry if an investment can make money, just if it can generate employment. Not that I would be surprised if China does what you claim, just don’t think in the big picture it will make a difference . Global consumption peaked in 2019, and the Chinese population is entering a terminal collapse. Keep in mind Europe ships cargo by truck, not rail. Europe in total is an export economy, they don’t look to China for imports. They want ties to China to export their goods. 

Sorry Ed I cannot agree.  Do you think it is for Chinese people to travel to Singapore?  China has built high speed rail all over their country for domestic and business, and they want to expand that for trade with all SEAsian countries they can connect with. 

[MrStretch]

1 hour ago, Slugger said:

Which countries has China annexed this last 100 years?

How about Tibet, Xinjiang and parts of Nepal, to begin with?