News Forum - Air Canada launches first direct North America – Thailand flight in 10 years

[Thaiger]

Air Canada is launching the only available direct service between North America and Thailand this winter. Between December and April, Air Canada’s Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft will fly direct between Vancouver and Bangkok four days per week. It is the first nonstop service between North America and Thailand in 10 years. Canada’s flag carrier will fly between Vancouver International Airport and Bangkok Suvarnabhumi Airport on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays. The flight route is seasonal and will run between December 4, 2021 and April 14, 2022. The Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner features 3 cabins – Signature Class, Premium Economy and Economy […]

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[danpeter]

As a Canadian I would not take this service unless the price is too good to pass on. You cant compare with ANA, JAl or Korean (costs more but nice to have a short stop, stretch legs and fly on a real carrier). Sorry Air Canada but flying you has become pure torture, I cant fathom a 16hr flight on a high density 787-900 with unbearable cramped seats, poor service, rude staff, constant delays, and awful food.

[Dancbmac]

37 minutes ago, danpeter said:

As a Canadian I would not take this service unless the price is too good to pass on. You cant compare with ANA, JAl or Korean (costs more but nice to have a short stop, stretch legs and fly on a real carrier). Sorry Air Canada but flying you has become pure torture, I cant fathom a 16hr flight on a high density 787-900 with unbearable cramped seats, poor service, rude staff, constant delays, and awful food.

Wow, is it that bad?  I never flew on Air Canada before, but I recently flew into BKK on the 787-9 on another airline and the economy seats were not too bad or cramped.  No worse than that Korean, JAL, or ANA economy seats, but maybe Air Canada configures their 787s differently??  Everyone has different experiences and perspectives and my comparisons are based on 21 years active duty flying in military cargo transports and later another 12 years as a civilian military contractor doing the same cargo flights.  I haven’t found any airline’s economy flights to be as bad, loud, and uncomfortable as those are.  I guess the pricing will have to be competitive with Korean or Qatar Airways, but it would be nice to have a direct flights again making the trips shorter with no layovers except the one in Vancouver.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Dancbmac

[Cabra]

41 minutes ago, danpeter said:

As a Canadian I would not take this service unless the price is too good to pass on

I'd fly standing up if I could get a sub $1000 USD RT ticket

[danpeter]

4 hours ago, Dancbmac said:

Wow, is it that bad?  I never flew on Air Canada before, but I recently flew into BKK on the 787-9 on another airline and the economy seats were not too bad or cramped.  No worse than that Korean, JAL, or ANA economy seats, but maybe Air Canada configures their 787s differently??  Everyone has different experiences and perspectives and my comparisons are based on 21 years active duty flying in military cargo transports and later another 12 years as a civilian military contractor doing the same cargo flights.  I haven’t found any airline’s economy flights to be as bad, loud, and uncomfortable as those are.  I guess the pricing will have to be competitive with Korean or Qatar Airways, but it would be nice to have a direct flights again making the trips shorter with no layovers except the one in Vancouver.

Its pretty grim, that coming from someone who worked in civil aviation for many years and traveled on many carriers around the world. For example check out the 777-300, compare on ANA (true Japan is very premium heavy compared to Canada) buts its a good indicator on the same aircraft type, its pure hell being jammed into 10X flying overseas.

Judge on the seat plans, for a 777-300. 

ANA fits in 112 Eco seats https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/ANA_Boeing_777-300ER_D.php

Air Canada 398 Eco seats https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Canada/Air_Canada_Boeing_777-300ER_Three_Class_v4.php

 

Thats Canada for you, very little competition (thanks to government protectionist policies) therefore  options are limited and AC had free rein to charge and do what they want at a premium to the paying public. No EU compensation laws over there.

For example EK  is only allowed to fly 3x a week, and only one city and they chose Toronto and they use the A380 to maximise, same with QR & EY one city pair 3x a week. Im no fan of the MEA 3, especially QR but still thats competition. 

Canadians seem to be pretty satisfied to pay double for many things and half the quality. 

I digress, this summer I fly back for a visit with ANA, thankfully I booked before prices double, shame I cant stop over in Tokyo for a few days though. 

 

[danpeter]

4 hours ago, Cabra said:

I'd fly standing up if I could get a sub $1000 USD RT ticket

hahaha fair enough, I checked out the fares and its still pretty steep, hard to get a fair indicator given the current climate. 

[Fifthfloor]

“The flight route is seasonal and will run between December 4, 2023 and April 14, 2023. The Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner features 3 cabins – Signature Class, Premium Economy and Economy Class. I always opt for a private cabin, hogging the toilet.”

THE THAIGER needs an editor. Does anyone proofread the things you publish? In addition to the dates error, the report suddenly reverts from the objective to the subjective. Ugh. Be better.

JT

 

[Rookiescot]

Being Scottish I always try to fly with Emirates because the service is excellent and the stop "half way" gives an opportunity to stretch the legs. 

I did once fly direct from Bangkok to Heathrow. Never again. 

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, Dancbmac said:

21 years active duty flying in military cargo transports

If you can handle all those hours in a Hercules then sitting in a washing machine filled with rocks will seem like luxury to you  

[samiam123]

This will

9 hours ago, danpeter said:

As a Canadian I would not take this service unless the price is too good to pass on. You cant compare with ANA, JAl or Korean (costs more but nice to have a short stop, stretch legs and fly on a real carrier). Sorry Air Canada but flying you has become pure torture, I cant fathom a 16hr flight on a high density 787-900 with unbearable cramped seats, poor service, rude staff, constant delays, and awful food.

Umm, ANA/JAI and Air Canada all belong to Star Alliance, so they code share with each other. It doesn't matter which airline you book through.  At least one leg will likely be Air Canada, ANA, or JAI no matter what.  Have any other inaccurate info you would like to share?

Edited June 21, 2022 by samiam123

[Grumpish]

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Being Scottish I always try to fly with Emirates because the service is excellent and the stop "half way" gives an opportunity to stretch the legs. 

I did once fly direct from Bangkok to Heathrow. Never again. 

Same here - premium economy is the absolute minimum for anything over six or seven hours, and for twelve hours plus it has to be down at the pointy end or not at all. 

[samiam123]

5 hours ago, danpeter said:

Its pretty grim, that coming from someone who worked in civil aviation for many years and traveled on many carriers around the world. For example check out the 777-300, compare on ANA (true Japan is very premium heavy compared to Canada) buts its a good indicator on the same aircraft type, its pure hell being jammed into 10X flying overseas.

Judge on the seat plans, for a 777-300. 

ANA fits in 112 Eco seats https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/ANA_Boeing_777-300ER_D.php

Air Canada 398 Eco seats https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Canada/Air_Canada_Boeing_777-300ER_Three_Class_v4.php

Thats Canada for you, very little competition (thanks to government protectionist policies) therefore  options are limited and AC had free rein to charge and do what they want at a premium to the paying public. No EU compensation laws over there.

For example EK  is only allowed to fly 3x a week, and only one city and they chose Toronto and they use the A380 to maximise, same with QR & EY one city pair 3x a week. Im no fan of the MEA 3, especially QR but still thats competition. 

Canadians seem to be pretty satisfied to pay double for many things and half the quality. 

I digress, this summer I fly back for a visit with ANA, thankfully I booked before prices double, shame I cant stop over in Tokyo for a few days though. 

So you worked in civil aviation (according to you) and yet you still don't seem to know that JAL, ANA, and Air Canada are all part of Star Alliance and code share flights.  Doesn't matter who you book with, you are still going to most likely fly Air Canada for one leg and either ANA or JAL for another if going through Japan.

Also, most of your other 'info' is incorrect.  For example,  many asian carriers are now flying 10 across seat configuration for international economy.  I believe Air Canada still flies 9 across and you really notice those extra few inches on a 12 hour flight.  I believe Air Canada also has less rows than many other carriers for international.  I can tell you first hand the meals are also better than many other carriers I have flown on the same routes. Having worked in civil aviation you already knew all that rrright? 

Having flown Star Alliance codeshares many times, I can tell you that the overall experience is usually fairly consistent between the different airlines, so in my opinion you have little or no first hand experience for any of your opinions because most are just flat out wrong.

Edited June 21, 2022 by samiam123

[Vigo]

14 hours ago, danpeter said:

Its pretty grim, that coming from someone who worked in civil aviation for many years and traveled on many carriers around the world. For example check out the 777-300, compare on ANA (true Japan is very premium heavy compared to Canada) buts its a good indicator on the same aircraft type, its pure hell being jammed into 10X flying overseas.

Judge on the seat plans, for a 777-300. 

ANA fits in 112 Eco seats https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/ANA_Boeing_777-300ER_D.php

Air Canada 398 Eco seats https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Canada/Air_Canada_Boeing_777-300ER_Three_Class_v4.php

Thats Canada for you, very little competition (thanks to government protectionist policies) therefore  options are limited and AC had free rein to charge and do what they want at a premium to the paying public. No EU compensation laws over there.

For example EK  is only allowed to fly 3x a week, and only one city and they chose Toronto and they use the A380 to maximise, same with QR & EY one city pair 3x a week. Im no fan of the MEA 3, especially QR but still thats competition. 

Canadians seem to be pretty satisfied to pay double for many things and half the quality. 

I digress, this summer I fly back for a visit with ANA, thankfully I booked before prices double, shame I cant stop over in Tokyo for a few days though. 

You have made multiple conclusions that are not supported by the financial facts. Canada has a relatively small population spread out in the 2nd largest country by land size. Many of its airports are located in regions where it is not financially viable for even one airline to operate. There is a duopoly of domestic airlines for the larger cities with WestJet and Air Canada. There are  several smaller regional airlines.  Government protectionist policies  are not the reason for a "lack of competition". On the contrary, there is not enough market demand to support competition in much of the market.  Competition does not mean allowing  foreign state subsidized airlines one sided open access to a market.

Yes, the Gulf airlines do not have unfettered access to Canadian markets, but that is because those airlines refuse to give Canada equivalent landing rights and are subsidized by the foreign governments. There is significant competition on international routes.  I am not comfortable using some of the  Gulf airlines because of their links to terrorists.  Prior to Covid, China's carriers were eating away at the Canadian market with airfares that were below market cost. Yes, it is easy to undercut an airfare if one has an ulterior motive supported by a foreign government.

The reality is that Air Canada offers competitive airfares in its economy section. It's expansion strategy targets the US consumer so it is often cheaper to fly on AC out of the USA than it is out of Canada.

I don't understand AC's pricing on the BKK route. It's Y class airfares are in line with the market, but J class is priced 25%+ above its main competitors and routes that combine a foreign hub. It's the J cabin which delivers the profit. The BKK route  J fare is 4X the Y fare. AC Signature service is the equivalent of  First class on US carriers, and many EU carriers. AC restricts its Signature lounge only to customers paying the J class fare. Everyone else ends up in the  Maple Leaf lounge, the international versions as good as many Asian business class lounges and much better than the farce that is the lounge system in the USA and EU.  AC offers individual seating. Lufthansa, Austrian, KLM, Korean sell business class seats in pairs, It becomes even more ridiculous on  Air France or United when one is forced into a middle seat of 3 in a so called business class cabin.  The F&B service on AC has made tremendous strides since the release of Signature service and I find it just as good as OZ or TG.  

Anyway, I doubt this route is going to take hold unless the airfares are discounted. Hopefully Thailand and Singapore give permission to allow the airline to add Singapore to the route like SwissAir to make this viable.

 

[Smithydog]

I am not sold on the long distance direct flights, like Air Canada is in this article. But since I haven't flown one et, I'll reserve my judgement to a later date.

But when I was travelling a lot pre-covid days, I did enjoy the break in a long flight. In many cases there was sufficient time for a walk around to stretch the legs and often even time for a quick shower in the lounge, refreshing myself. For me personally, breaking it into to smaller legs seemed to work better.

I do note that Qantas is talking about charging a premium rate for their next edition of long distance flights and different amenities, reduced seating etc. Like all of the carriers, including Air Canada, I will need to see a lot more about amenities, passenger experiences and the cost, before considering them.

After all, value to me also includes how I am when I arrive and how I feel at the end of a long flight/transit. Having to delay activities to recover, simply because of a longer flight, may not pay off in the end.

[Dancbmac]

15 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

If you can handle all those hours in a Hercules then sitting in a washing machine filled with rocks will seem like luxury to you  

Exactly . 

[Dancbmac]

15 hours ago, danpeter said:

 I digress, this summer I fly back for a visit with ANA, thankfully I booked before prices double, shame I cant stop over in Tokyo for a few days though. 

Sounds like that will work out for you and you are lucky you saved a bit from your bank account with the lower price.  Air travel is going to be expensive in the near future sadly.

[danpeter]

On 6/21/2022 at 10:11 PM, samiam123 said:

This will

Umm, ANA/JAI and Air Canada all belong to Star Alliance, so they code share with each other. It doesn't matter which airline you book through.  At least one leg will likely be Air Canada, ANA, or JAI no matter what.  Have any other inaccurate info you would like to share?

hmmm double check the alliance JAl is in before calling my information inaccurate :)

[samiam123]

1 hour ago, danpeter said:

hmmm double check the alliance JAl is in before calling my information inaccurate :)

And ANA?

Looks like connections through Japan are always done with ANA.  Turns out JAL is with One World.  However, Cathay Pacific is also One World and Air Canada makes connections with them through Hong Kong.

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by samiam123

[LuckyStrike]

Air Canada still requires masks on planes. Not sure if it will still be the case in December. I'll pass. I'm in Washington state and YVR would be a good option.

[danpeter]

8 hours ago, samiam123 said:

And ANA?

Looks like connections through Japan are always done with ANA.  Turns out JAL is with One World.  However, Cathay Pacific is also One World and Air Canada makes connections with them through Hong Kong.

Again some not accurate information from your end, but im bored with this. take care bud

[Marc26]

On 6/21/2022 at 4:37 AM, danpeter said:

Its pretty grim, that coming from someone who worked in civil aviation for many years and traveled on many carriers around the world. For example check out the 777-300, compare on ANA (true Japan is very premium heavy compared to Canada) buts its a good indicator on the same aircraft type, its pure hell being jammed into 10X flying overseas.

Judge on the seat plans, for a 777-300. 

ANA fits in 112 Eco seats https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/ANA_Boeing_777-300ER_D.php

Air Canada 398 Eco seats https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Canada/Air_Canada_Boeing_777-300ER_Three_Class_v4.php

Thats Canada for you, very little competition (thanks to government protectionist policies) therefore  options are limited and AC had free rein to charge and do what they want at a premium to the paying public. No EU compensation laws over there.

For example EK  is only allowed to fly 3x a week, and only one city and they chose Toronto and they use the A380 to maximise, same with QR & EY one city pair 3x a week. Im no fan of the MEA 3, especially QR but still thats competition. 

Canadians seem to be pretty satisfied to pay double for many things and half the quality. 

I digress, this summer I fly back for a visit with ANA, thankfully I booked before prices double, shame I cant stop over in Tokyo for a few days though. 

I honestly have no clue what you are getting at, as someone who flies a lot in and out of Canada, none of what you say makes any sense whatsoever

 

I just flew Air Canada to Japan and then Asiana Airlines and ANA on the connecting flights to/from BKK

I noticed very little difference in the seating.

I much prefer the service on the Asian airlines, but the Air Canada flights weren't that bad......

 

As for very little competition? 

Out of Vancouver and Toronto, almost all of the Asian airlines are available to fly to Asia, especially Vancouver

And to fly to the US, I often have the choice of pretty much every US airline, depending on the route

[Marc26]

21 hours ago, samiam123 said:

And ANA?

Looks like connections through Japan are always done with ANA.  Turns out JAL is with One World.  However, Cathay Pacific is also One World and Air Canada makes connections with them through Hong Kong.

Not true, we connected with Asiana Airlines going and ANA on way back to Canada

 

I do like ANA a lot though............

[Marc26]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:15 PM, Smithydog said:

I am not sold on the long distance direct flights, like Air Canada is in this article. But since I haven't flown one et, I'll reserve my judgement to a later date.

But when I was travelling a lot pre-covid days, I did enjoy the break in a long flight. In many cases there was sufficient time for a walk around to stretch the legs and often even time for a quick shower in the lounge, refreshing myself. For me personally, breaking it into to smaller legs seemed to work better.

 

I have flown the old direct flights to Bangkok from LA and NYC

You do get a bit loopy in the 14th hour or so

 

But this route now, 13 hours on the return flight is a God send

You literally time travel!

[JJJ]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:15 AM, Smithydog said:

I am not sold on the long distance direct flights, like Air Canada is in this article. But since I haven't flown one et, I'll reserve my judgement to a later date.

But when I was travelling a lot pre-covid days, I did enjoy the break in a long flight. In many cases there was sufficient time for a walk around to stretch the legs and often even time for a quick shower in the lounge, refreshing myself. For me personally, breaking it into to smaller legs seemed to work better.

I do note that Qantas is talking about charging a premium rate for their next edition of long distance flights and different amenities, reduced seating etc. Like all of the carriers, including Air Canada, I will need to see a lot more about amenities, passenger experiences and the cost, before considering them.

After all, value to me also includes how I am when I arrive and how I feel at the end of a long flight/transit. Having to delay activities to recover, simply because of a longer flight, may not pay off in the end.

I can’t say exactly what their theory is but Vancouver will have substantially more connection options within Canada and the United States than Hong Kong, Seoul, Taipei, or Tokyo. 

My closest option home is Philadelphia—a moderate sized international airport—but the only 1 stop option is on Qatar (a much longer flight option and much more expensive). Last time I flew ANA and UA <to EWR> in business and well it was pretty much Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde  

I’ve never flown through Vancouver—does anyone know if connections to US do immigration in Vancouver like Toronto? 

Also does anyone find it odd that the AC flight end in the middle of Songkran? That’s just odd.  

Edited June 23, 2022 by JJJ
Added location

[Marc26]

23 minutes ago, JJJ said:

I can’t say exactly what their theory is but Vancouver will have substantially more connection options within Canada and the United States than Hong Kong, Seoul, Taipei, or Tokyo. 

My closest option home is Philadelphia—a moderate sized international airport—but the only 1 stop option is on Qatar (a much longer flight option and much more expensive). Last time I flew ANA and UA <to EWR> in business and well it was pretty much Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde  

I’ve never flown through Vancouver—does anyone know if connections to US do immigration in Vancouver like Toronto? 

Also does anyone find it odd that the AC flight end in the middle of Songkran? That’s just odd.  

It depends on your ticket but I think now mostly you follow US connections and clear customs in YVR

 

Way back I used to fly Cathay from JFK and we'd have to get off plane and wait in a holding pen of sorts and clear customs in US when land