News Forum - Japan facing rise in ‘Long Covid’ cases

[Thaiger]

Japan is seeing a number of people report having so-called ‘Long Covid’ symptoms, including fatigue, coughing and memory memory loss. Tokyo’s metropolitan government found that of the 2,039 people reporting Long Covid symptoms, 97% only had mild symptoms when they were infected with the coronavirus between January and April. 74% had no underlying disease, and more than 70% were aged 20-59. The patients particularly reported fatigue and prolonged coughing as their main symptoms and ongoing physical challenges. 10% of people hospitalised during and before the Delta outbreak of Covid-19 still had Long Covid symptoms a year after being infected. But […]

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[BigHewer]

I’m not being disingenuous here, but how do we know long covid is what it is? The symptoms are similar to what people experience when they’re stressed, overworked, fed up etc. 

“I can’t concentrate, I’m not feeling well, my body is out of whack… ah it must be long covid”.

[Tim_Melb]

55 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

I’m not being disingenuous here, but how do we know long covid is what it is? The symptoms are similar to what people experience when they’re stressed, overworked, fed up etc. 

“I can’t concentrate, I’m not feeling well, my body is out of whack… ah it must be long covid”.

That is the exact opposite of what is going on. The reality is that around 50% of people that become infected with Covid are developing long covid symptoms even when at the time of infection they were asymptomatic. The vast majority of these people do not report their symptoms to their doctors or government because they don't initially make the connection between their symptoms and having had covid. Large numbers of people have fatigue symptoms and respiratory symptoms as well as what they describe as brain fog and worry about it for months without seeking medical attention because these symptoms start weeks or months after the initial infection and they can't think of what the cause may be. In the early days of the pandemic it was thought that long covid was only occurring in in 10 to 20 percent of people, this was because those 10 to 20 percent were the ones with severe symptoms. It was not until medical people started doing follow up surveys with patients that they suddenly discovered these much higher numbers of people with symptoms that were just soldiering on. What is worse is that with people now becoming infected for the second or third time they are running that 50/50 chance of developing long covid each time they get infected and the chance of their long covid being worse if they already have it. Fortunately so far most people with mild symptoms seem to be recovering in a few months but the implications of reinfection given an increased chance of severe symptoms is frightening. What happens when you have had covid five times or ten times? 

[JMJM]

2 hours ago, BigHewer said:

I’m not being disingenuous here, but how do we know long covid is what it is? The symptoms are similar to what people experience when they’re stressed, overworked, fed up etc. 

“I can’t concentrate, I’m not feeling well, my body is out of whack… ah it must be long covid”.

Exactly.  It's just a vague list of symptoms, not a single one of which is objectively verifiable.  When you add to this the knowledge that 4/5 of people who claim to suffer from this are female (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/having-spikes-risk-long-covid-132424173.html), it just sounds like so much bunk.

[palooka]

52 minutes ago, JMJM said:

Exactly.  It's just a vague list of symptoms, not a single one of which is objectively verifiable.  When you add to this the knowledge that 4/5 of people who claim to suffer from this are female (https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/having-spikes-risk-long-covid-132424173.html), it just sounds like so much bunk.

Maybe, but people with 2 Astra Z jabs followed with Pfizer booster are complaining of brain fog and memory problems after booster. Circulation problems in physical extremities on AZ jabs resulting in blood blisters on toes, numbness in toes also. Hives with some after Pfizer booster not pleasant, months of duration.

We are not all built the same, so give these people the benefit of the doubt.

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Tim_Melb said:

That is the exact opposite of what is going on. The reality is that around 50% of people that become infected with Covid are developing long covid symptoms even when at the time of infection they were asymptomatic. The vast majority of these people do not report their symptoms to their doctors or government because they don't initially make the connection between their symptoms and having had covid. Large numbers of people have fatigue symptoms and respiratory symptoms as well as what they describe as brain fog and worry about it for months without seeking medical attention because these symptoms start weeks or months after the initial infection and they can't think of what the cause may be. In the early days of the pandemic it was thought that long covid was only occurring in in 10 to 20 percent of people, this was because those 10 to 20 percent were the ones with severe symptoms. It was not until medical people started doing follow up surveys with patients that they suddenly discovered these much higher numbers of people with symptoms that were just soldiering on. What is worse is that with people now becoming infected for the second or third time they are running that 50/50 chance of developing long covid each time they get infected and the chance of their long covid being worse if they already have it. Fortunately so far most people with mild symptoms seem to be recovering in a few months but the implications of reinfection given an increased chance of severe symptoms is frightening. What happens when you have had covid five times or ten times? 

Do you have any data or trusted peer reviewed medical papers to support these claims? 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

5 hours ago, Thaiger said:

Japan is seeing a number of people report having so-called ‘Long Covid’ symptoms, including fatigue, coughing and memory memory loss.

Just what the current Thai Government wants for the next election ….. only those that had COVID19 can vote …. Symptoms include memory loss

[dbrenn]

17 hours ago, BigHewer said:

I’m not being disingenuous here, but how do we know long covid is what it is? The symptoms are similar to what people experience when they’re stressed, overworked, fed up etc. 

“I can’t concentrate, I’m not feeling well, my body is out of whack… ah it must be long covid”.

Hypochondria might be a better name for the majority of cases. People feeling ill because they're terrified of feeling ill.

[riclag]

5 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Hypochondria might be a better name for the majority of cases. People feeling ill because they're terrified of feeling ill.

I think that some not many have this sense of hypochondriac but there are legitimate feelings of not feeling normal after having passed the dreaded poison !

That goes with the vaccine too!

All of this coming by  talking with friends ,family  and my experiences.

[Highlandman]

Long Covid = vaccine side effects. Simple as that.

[rc1]

Try this:

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/search-long-covid

At this point, long Covid is an anxiety disorder.

There's no evidence it's anything biochemical. 

 

[BigHewer]

21 minutes ago, Highlandman said:

Long Covid = vaccine side effects. Simple as that.

I actually think it’s neither the vaccine nor the virus. 

Some people always complain of unexplained ailments. “Long Covid” is the new “Chronic fatigue syndrome”, in my humble opinion.

[riclag]

48 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

I actually think it’s neither the vaccine nor the virus. 

Some people always complain of unexplained ailments. “Long Covid” is the new “Chronic fatigue syndrome”, in my humble opinion.

Disagree ! 
https://www.physiofitnc.com/why-do-i-have-dizziness-after-covid-19-vaccine/

Some People are feeling these symptoms many months after having covid and months after getting vaccinated!

There isn’t enough info on both occurrences . And it probably won’t be for years to come! But some are saying  the symptoms from getting either the vaccine or the covid  infection has contributed to these problems!

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/long-covid-has-resurfaced-tensions-over-treatment-of-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

I think pinning chronic fatigue syndrome to it lessens the legitimate  problems surrounding the concerns that some complained about!

[BigHewer]

2 minutes ago, riclag said:

Disagree ! 
https://www.physiofitnc.com/why-do-i-have-dizziness-after-covid-19-vaccine/

Some People are feeling these symptoms many months after having covid and months after getting vaccinated!

So how can you “disagree”. Is it after getting vaccinated or after getting covid? Which one @riclag? It has to be one or the other and it can’t be both. Which is it? Your argument is circular. Chicken and egg.

IMO, long covid is an invention.

[riclag]

18 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

So how can you “disagree”. Is it after getting vaccinated or after getting covid? Which one @riclag? It has to be one or the other and it can’t be both. Which is it? Your argument is circular. Chicken and egg.

IMO, long covid is an invention.

Im not qualified to give you a expert answer ! Just speaking for my observations,mate.

But from talking to people these concerns happen in people and it comes from people who have the vaccine with out having covid and people who have the vaccine and covid .

Saying its CFS  diminishes the occurrence's  

[BigHewer]

18 minutes ago, riclag said:

Im not qualified to give you a expert answer ! Just speaking for my observations,mate.

But from talking to people these concerns happen in people and it comes from people who have the vaccine with out having covid and people who have the vaccine and covid .

Saying its CFS  diminishes the occurrence's  

Neither am I qualified. It’s all so wishy washy. Vaccine side effects are a whole different thing. Lumping them in with “long covid” diminishes the credibility of both in terms of diagnosability. 

“LC” not the same as “CFS”. I was merely drawing a comparison. Feeling down? Energy levels low? Unhappy recently? Ah, it must be “CFC” or nowadays “LC”. 

[Tim_Melb]

22 hours ago, Soidog said:

Do you have any data or trusted peer reviewed medical papers to support these claims? 

It's well documented and widely published. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/15001/

[astro]

2 hours ago, Highlandman said:

Long Covid = vaccine side effects. Simple as that.

Simple, but false. Not the same at all.

Vaccine side effects and their frequency of occurence have been well documented.

[Freeduhdumb]

On 6/4/2022 at 2:06 AM, BigHewer said:

I’m not being disingenuous here, but how do we know long covid is what it is? The symptoms are similar to what people experience when they’re stressed, overworked, fed up etc. 

“I can’t concentrate, I’m not feeling well, my body is out of whack… ah it must be long covid”.

It seems the current science isn't very clear... As a clinician myself, I want to know are any symptoms causing serious illness and in most cases the answer is no. And with that, the rate of long covid doesn't currently constitute any real long standing communicability... rates are simply so very low. I have had a few patients, on follow-up, that continue to have symptoms, but have not resulted in serious illness. 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/962479

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, Tim_Melb said:

It's well documented and widely published. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/15001/

Thanks Tim. I’ll take a look at the article

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, Tim_Melb said:

It's well documented and widely published. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/15001/

An interesting article Tim, but I still doubt the numbers are as high as 50/50. Part of the issue, like so much of the pandemic, comes down to definitions, sample sizes etc. Take a look at the following report and you will see the range of numbers when it comes to Long Covid. It suggests as low as 3% and as high as 18%.
 

From my own experience of Covid, I only know a relatively small sample size. I know 20 people who have had Covid in the past two years, myself included. Of those 20, only one has told me they are suffering any lasting effects. A number did say that it dragged on with a chest cough for 4-6 weeks, but only one claims to still get out of breath easily. As I say, a small sample, though I feel if it was 50/50, at least 3 or 4 out of the 20 would have some issues?? 
 

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/09/16/how-common-is-long-covid-that-depends-on-how-you-measure-it/amp/

[Manu]

8 hours ago, Soidog said:

An interesting article Tim, but I still doubt the numbers are as high as 50/50. Part of the issue, like so much of the pandemic, comes down to definitions, sample sizes etc. Take a look at the following report and you will see the range of numbers when it comes to Long Covid. It suggests as low as 3% and as high as 18%.
 

From my own experience of Covid, I only know a relatively small sample size. I know 20 people who have had Covid in the past two years, myself included. Of those 20, only one has told me they are suffering any lasting effects. A number did say that it dragged on with a chest cough for 4-6 weeks, but only one claims to still get out of breath easily. As I say, a small sample, though I feel if it was 50/50, at least 3 or 4 out of the 20 would have some issues?? 
 

https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/09/16/how-common-is-long-covid-that-depends-on-how-you-measure-it/amp/

And again, the perfect example of us trying to figure out something although not qualified while, first scientists do not seem to find the same results from one study to another, secondly we cannot really read these studies and certainly understanding when those are Bias or not, which is common practice in this industry nowadays (although checking conflicts of interest of those doing these studies can sometimes give you an idea but that also is not 100% proof).

Like I always say, looking around you and your own experience is usually the best way to give you an "idea" like you did Soidog. I know at least 40 people who got covid (I actually know more but they are not close to me in any way so I can't speak for them) from 4 different countries, including myself, my brother got it twice the original one back in March 2020 and Omicron this year, etc... I know only one (who also had the original one back in 2020) who said he was still feeling really tired for many weeks but then he is over 70 and not in the best shape. That's it. Did some of them had symptoms of long covid without realising it? Maybe but then it cannot have been that bad.

So you are asking yourself the same question I am asking myself: "As I say, a small sample, though I feel if it was 50/50, at least 3 or 4 out of the 20 would have some issues??" Indeed.

[Metoo]

Anyone remember ME, or yuppie flu as it was named.

People were said to feel exhausted by this syndrome. 

Perhaps we are seeing a resurgence of this?

[BigHewer]

8 hours ago, Manu said:

Like I always say, looking around you and your own experience is usually the best way to give you an "idea" like you did Soidog. I know at least 40 people who got covid (I actually know more but they are not close to me in any way so I can't speak for them) from 4 different countries, including myself, my brother got it twice the original one back in March 2020 and Omicron this year, etc...

It’s a useful approach to consider “self-sampling” and there’s a natural inclination to trust what we experience first hand. I can go off family, coworkers and friends. 

Just did a count and I know “directly” of 28 cases. 1 death, 2 symptomatic cases. I haven’t heard anyone talk of after effects and “long covid”. That’s from my limited sample.