News Forum - Shooting in Oklahoma kills 4

[AndynPhuong]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

There will always be sick people. You just need to stop them getting guns so easily. 

Agreed. And it would be great if the politicians could come up with viable restrictions, and enforce them. I've posted up multiple issues in that regard. How the government has failed to enforce existing laws. There is not much trust in the government here at present. You just have to listen to the prez to understand why.

[AndynPhuong]

15 hours ago, anarchofarmer said:

There re 2 classifications: personal protection and weapons of war!

Would you point me in the direction where a firearms manufacturer is quoted saying there are 2 classifications of firearms?

 

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, AndynPhuong said:

It is a answer. Anything legal you want to use it for. For the time being, it is still legal to do that here. Sorry it irritates you so.

Right so you cannot give a specific reason to own an AR 15. 

For hunting deer its pretty useless because of its caliber size. For home defense you would be better with a shotgun or a good pistol.

So unless you are expecting a zombie apocalypse soon there is no justifiable reason a civilian needs an AR 15.

[AndynPhuong]

11 hours ago, Vigo said:

Winchester repeating rifle had magazine of 4-5 rounds. Surefire makes an AR-15  100 round magazine. Do you see the difference?

Lever action like Winchester are good for hunting. AR-15 is intended to kill people.

I never mentioned a lever action Winchester. I did state the  model 1907 functions exactly like a ar15, which, most definitely a lever action Winchester does not. Look it up.

[AndynPhuong]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Right so you cannot give a specific reason to own an AR 15. 

For hunting deer its pretty useless because of its caliber size. For home defense you would be better with a shotgun or a good pistol.

So unless you are expecting a zombie apocalypse soon there is no justifiable reason a civilian needs an AR 15.

I did. Why do you need a "specific reason"? I have already mentioned - after you characterized "anyone who hunted deer with a .223 caliber was a idiot" that in most states, afaik, it's not legal to use that caliber on game as large as deer.   Laws vary (and so do deer size) by state, so may be legal in some. There are other game that it is popular to use hunting though. I know many who use the platform to hunt wild hogs, ground hogs, coyote, popular on prairie dog too. On home defense, I defer to your expertise in that department since you seem to have a good grasp. Although, that should be a personal decision depending on the individual's needs. Hunting, target shooting, personal protection, plinking, all are legal ways to use a ar15. Of course, one would probably be a good choice for zombies. Maybe you'll get your wish, and they will be outlawed. Stay tuned to cnn.

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, AndynPhuong said:

I did. Why do you need a "specific reason"? I have already mentioned - after you characterized "anyone who hunted deer with a .223 caliber was a idiot" that in most states, afaik, it's not legal to use that caliber on game as large as deer.   Laws vary (and so do deer size) by state, so may be legal in some. There are other game that it is popular to use hunting though. I know many who use the platform to hunt wild hogs, ground hogs, coyote, popular on prairie dog too. On home defense, I defer to your expertise in that department since you seem to have a good grasp. Although, that should be a personal decision depending on the individual's needs. Hunting, target shooting, personal protection, plinking, all are legal ways to use a ar15. Of course, one would probably be a good choice for zombies. Maybe you'll get your wish, and they will be outlawed. Stay tuned to cnn.

You keep deflecting onto what is legal.

My question is for what specific reason, as a civilian, do you NEED an AR 15?

If you want to hunt racoons, gophers or dang pesky wabbits then other weapons are available and are more effective.

If you want to hunt dear then other weapons are available and are more effective.

If you want to defend your home then other weapons are available and are more effective. 

So why do you NEED an AR 15?

[23RD]

46 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

If you want to defend your home then other weapons are available and are more effective. 

So why do you NEED an AR 15?

If the like's of Justin Trudeau and Joe Biden are trying to take away your guns that's a good Combat Indicator that you need your guns.

[astro]

12 minutes ago, 23RD said:

If the like's of Justin Trudeau and Joe Biden are trying to take away your guns that's a good Combat Indicator that you need your guns.

Why?

Because you do not like them or their political views? That's why one needs to keep automatic assault rifles?

[23RD]

7 minutes ago, astro said:

Why?

Because you do not like them or their political views? That's why one needs to keep automatic assault rifles?

I'm not American but reading up on the 2nd Amendment it was originally about keeping arms to prevent a tyrannical government and currently we have tyrannical governments in both the US & Canada. 

I could give you some examples but unless you've been living a sheltered life for the past couple of years you've probably taken note yourself. 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

On 6/2/2022 at 3:30 PM, Thaiger said:

After a school shooting in Texas rocked global headlines last week,

Really, how fast the headlines for the school bombings in Ukraine by Russia have left the headlines ….. that’s right if it Bleeds …. It leads!!! More sympathy for Americans than Ukrainians 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, 23RD said:

I'm not American but reading up on the 2nd Amendment it was originally about keeping arms to prevent a tyrannical government and currently we have tyrannical governments in both the US & Canada. 

I could give you some examples but unless you've been living a sheltered life for the past couple of years you've probably taken note yourself. 

So you need an AR 15 in the UK to keep you from tyrannical governments?

As usual you are talking pish.

[23RD]

47 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So you need an AR 15 in the UK to keep you from tyrannical governments?

As usual you are talking pish.

I wouldn't know I've not been in the UK for 10 years son.

Edited June 4, 2022 by 23RD

[astro]

3 hours ago, 23RD said:

I could give you some examples but unless you've been living a sheltered life for the past couple of years you've probably taken note yourself. 

That would be a "no, Ihaven't" on both counts.

Sounds a bit hysterical & partisan to me. That's your prerogative, of course, but don't expect others to share these views.

[23RD]

3 minutes ago, astro said:

That's your prerogative, of course, but don't expect others to share these views.

That's right my friend I only deal in facts not fiction.

[AndynPhuong]

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

You keep deflecting onto what is legal.

My question is for what specific reason, as a civilian, do you NEED an AR 15?

If you want to hunt racoons, gophers or dang pesky wabbits then other weapons are available and are more effective.

If you want to hunt dear then other weapons are available and are more effective.

If you want to defend your home then other weapons are available and are more effective. 

So why do you NEED an AR 15?

 

are you really that obtuse? You just keep going round in circles. 

Do you "want" me to list illegal reasons of owning a weapon? lol.

I, and others, have pointed out to you that a ar15 is not functionally different from many semi-auto rifles. So, owning a ar15 is no different than owning many other semi-auto rifles. 

Why do you keep referring to hunting deer? I have, multiple times, pointed out that in many states the .223 caliber - no matter what weapon - is not legal for hunting deer or other large game. And yes, I would use another caliber. 7.62 or .30/30 is popular in my area. 

"If you want to hunt racoons, gophers or dang pesky wabbits then other weapons are available and are more effective"

Yes, again, I have already pointed this out. Which is probably the reason no one uses a .223 caliber weapon of "any" type to hunt those types of game. I actually gave some examples of game that .223 caliber is used, and gave some reasons if I remember. While you keep going around in circles.

As far as 'defending your home' - want to tell me why a ar15 is not a effective choice?

It's been pointed out that there are around 20+ million AR15 type rifles in civilian/private hands/ownership. Very very few are used in crime. Also it's been pointed out that the government has a poor track record of enforcing firearms laws, some that would have prevented crimes from happening. Why shouldn't citizens be wary of what the government's motive is?

Why do I 'need' a AR15? Would it surprise you if I said I don't own one? But, still, that is not the point. The point is the rifle is legal for me to own, and I can own one if I so choose. At present, I'm 66, have legally owned many weapons, many types to include semi and full auto. I've been licensed to sell firearms. I've never  committed a crime. Why shouldn't I be able to own a AR15? 

Of course, this all could change in the coming days...

[AndynPhuong]

After all this discussion, seems to me, a more beneficial discussion would be:

Seeings as how the ar15 rifle platform is used in statistically very small numbers of crimes (yes, I realize the severity of the crimes), and there are some 20+ million legally owned and used "legally".

Why not try to determine what could be done to prevent the potential mentally deranged from purchasing such weapons, rather than removing rights from so many millions, for the sins of such a few? 

"Especially" since the govt. has failed in upholding existing laws?

Look and see what the driving force behind such deranged behavior is. 

But, hey - that's just me.

 

[Grumpish]

49 minutes ago, AndynPhuong said:

Why not try to determine what could be done to prevent the potential mentally deranged from purchasing such weapons, rather than removing rights from so many millions, for the sins of such a few?

The UK is at the other end of the spectrum when it comes to getting a gun licence, the conditions are very strict, even ammunition purchases are recorded against your licence (the armourer at the police force I worked for was always getting snotograms from desk jockeys asking why he had so much ammunition recorded against his licence), and for civilians ammunition and guns have to be stored in separate secure locations. A licence application has to have two referees, and these referees are legally responsible - something that could go a long way towards weeding out people that are not fit to possess a gun. 

[riclag]

Red Flag Laws Spur Debate Over Due Process!

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2019/09/04/red-flag-laws-spur-debate-over-due-process
 

I like to see hardening of schools security nationwide as a compromise to enacting red flag laws that could possibly  infrig on due process rights!

 

[Thaidup]

On 6/3/2022 at 7:29 PM, Rookiescot said:

How many were in circulation in 1907 compared to today?

Thats the difference.

Back then ,only the rich people could afford them

[Smithydog]

An interesting opinion piece from an ex-police officer, gun owner and seller on the AR-15.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/05/opinions/guns-ar-15-uvalde-school-shooting-fanone/index.html

Why do people buy it? Seems limited in use and not for the reasons being stated by some in the news. To me, his suggested solution also sounds quite reasonable, if state laws back it up.

These are the type of people who should be talking about solutions in the US, not the politicians and the lobby groups funding them. Police and responsible gun owners need to be involved and provide the expert knowledge to create suitable standards that can be monitored and enforced.

 

[KaptainRob]

And another 9 (or more)  dead overnight, in 3 separate incidents - many injured, full details in US news online.

https://www.nbcnews.com/us-news

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/05/1103141264/mass-shooting-philadelphia-chattanooga-south-carolina

[dbrenn]

It's always baffled me why civilians should be allowed to carry around war weapons, when there's no war on.

The right to bear arms does illustrate an interesting difference between the US and UK mindset. The US general public feels there's a need to arm itself. Why is this? Is it because they don't trust their government? If so, then I can relate to that: in the distant past, I used to trust the UK government, in that they had the best interests of their citizenry at heart. I certainly don't think that way now though. 

Disarming the public is a tough question to answer. 

[riclag]

2 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

And another 9 (or more)  dead overnight, in 3 separate incidents - many injured, full details in US news online.

https://www.nbcnews.com/us-news

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/05/1103141264/mass-shooting-philadelphia-chattanooga-south-carolina

Another democrat run city  ,like Chicago and NY ! The shootings  won't get much hype cause it doesn't fit the msm "weapons of war"and the racial demographic  narrative.imop

[oldschooler]

On 6/5/2022 at 5:17 AM, AndynPhuong said:

After all this discussion, seems to me, a more beneficial discussion would be:

Seeings as how the ar15 rifle platform is used in statistically very small numbers of crimes (yes, I realize the severity of the crimes), and there are some 20+ million legally owned and used "legally".

Why not try to determine what could be done to prevent the potential mentally deranged from purchasing such weapons, rather than removing rights from so many millions, for the sins of such a few? 

"Especially" since the govt. has failed in upholding existing laws?

Look and see what the driving force behind such deranged behavior is. 

But, hey - that's just me.

“ Pressure Cooker” American Mixed & Low Grade Populations, Societies & Cultures are the only differentiating drivers here.

Zero Gun Homicides in Japan. Homogeneous Peaceful Compliant Population.

Nobody gets Fired for Nothing then out on the street with no money with Family to feed, bills to pay. Very Opposite of USA. Great Pressure to be Wealthy. Pay Tax. Stay Employed. 
Get Useless College Degrees. Mad Identity Politics. Laws Not Enforced by Dems.Mass Drug Addictions & Homelessness. Unreason Prevails. LOTS of Guns to Hand. All of That Crock ONLY in USA. 

Social Media exposing All to be Bullied & Humiliated at School / College/Work. 

Large numbers of inner city criminal armed savages pushing drugs & shooting each other is over 95% US gun homicides. Scum killing Scum (with Handguns) so naturally nothing done. 

53% Gun Homicides by 3% pop. Young Feral Black “Gangster” Males. 40 million Blacks. Don’t have THAT problem in Japan or Canada or UK. 

Mental Health pressures & problems abound in US people who would live normal healthy stress- free lives elsewhere. 15,000 US Gun Suicides, including the tiny handful of deranged AR15 Mass Shooters. 

Legal Gun Owners & Rifles are clearly NOT the problem so Disarming Them is just Plain Stupid Politicking leaving them to Die by Criminal. 

One Partial Solution is give All Schools same facility protection as Politicians get in Washington. 

[oldschooler]

On 6/4/2022 at 8:10 PM, astro said:

Why?

Because you do not like them or their political views? That's why one needs to keep automatic assault rifles?

Because they are in favor of disarming legal gun owners (regular law abiding citizens) while doing nothing effective to disarm criminals (illegal gun owners). Civil War Awaits any such attempt though