Visa non-immigrant O based on Child

[Billy_Bob]

Hi all,

I'm under 50, currently under visa B, we plan to have a child with my thai partner but we are not planing to mary (i will create another topic about some questions i have about having a thai child without without being married); and something is not clear about the getting a Visa O based on child.

On the thai ambassy website of my country i can find this (translated by me to english).

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Page of the family record book (husband-wife page and/or child page) and of the marriage certificate

Found document from bangkok immigration ( https://bangkok.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022C1_07.pdf ) that says this:

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6.1 Evidence proving that the applicant is Marriage, Father, Mother or Children or birth certificate

and also this:

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Show evidence of child care
: In the case of Parents registering a marriage, show the Marriage certificate (Kor Ror.2 , Kor Ror. 3)
: In case of parents registering divorce, show divorce books; (Kor Ror. 6)
: In the case of a father being a foreigner, not registered for marriage with the mother or divorced, the mother must show a written order from the court to be a legal guardian of the child and must show the child certificate (Kor Ror.11)

So she really have to go to court to get this order? I can read here ( https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/rights-and-duties-of-a-parent-and-child-in-thailand/ ) that anyway if we are not married, she is the legal guardian.

We will live the 3 of us together.

If someone was in the same configuration and have experience to share, or if i'm missing something, feel free to reply.

 

Subsidiary question, in the same document, at the top:

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IF YOU HAVE OVERSTAYED, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION FOR THIS TYPE OF VISA.

I had 1 day overstay 7 years ago because of miscalculation, how much you think this rule is enforced for this kind of visa?

 

Thanks for help.

[friendofthai]

I think you should consider visiting Vientiane or Phnom Penh for Non-O visa. In these places It is very easy and straightforward to get a Single Entry Non-O based on Thai child without showing any evidence of being married.
In Vientiane you should book an appointment. In Phnom Penh no appointment is needed, but they will process your application longer (3 days).
A step-by-step guide:

 

[Tod-Daniels]

Okay, hate to be the bearer of bad news BUT
While you MIGHT be able to get the 90 day Non-O visa issued outside the country by showing the birth certificate and the thai i/d house book of the mother what won't happen is you getting a year extension based on raising a half thai child born out of wedlock inside the country without having gone thru family court and getting granted legal parental rights by the court decree
OR
if the child is over 5 or 6 y/o going to the local amphur and getting parental rights granted that way.

when a foreigner is the father of a half thai child born out of wedlock 100% of the parental rights goes to the thai mother and even if the father's name is on the birth certificate, OR you get a passport from your country for your child, until you either go thru family court for the decree or the child is old enough to do it at the Amphur you can't use the child to get an extension of stay inside the country

 

[Tod-Daniels]

And just to add to that, the family court process (even an uncontested one) takes about 5 to 6 months to get thru the court system, <-most of that time is waiting for the hearings, the interviews, the decision and the decree to be issued)
Now you MIGHT <- as in may be able to get a year-long, multi-entry Non-O visa based on being the father of a half thai child at the thai consulate in Savannakhet Lao IF you take the child, the mother, the original birth certificate, copy of the house book listing, the thai mother's i/d card and her house book listing, AND the mother writes a letter asking the consulate to issue you a year long multi-entry Non-O (which costs 5000baht there at that consulate)

The down side to that visa (especially now with entry requirements being what they are is) while the visa is valid for a year, it only gets you stamped in for 90 days at a time and then when that 90 days is up you go to the border, stamp out of thailand, stamp in and out of another country, and then back into thailand to get a new 90 day stamp. You do that for the validity of the visa (a year from the date it's issued).

 

[Faz]

To add to and clarify the information from @Tod-Daniels.

If you apply for a Non Imm O Visa, either single or multiple entry from a Thai Embassy, the child's birth certificate with you named as the Father is sufficient.

However, for Thai Immigration it's a different matter.

 

When a baby is born, it is clear who the mother is. Who the father is remains the question. If the mother is married, the law will assume that the husband is the father of the child. It doesn't matter who makes the registration.
However, if the mother is not married, the law makes no such assumption and the father being named on the birth certificate is not enough. After all, anyone can be named on the birth certificate as the father, without that person knowing, let alone agreeing. In that case, the father has to legitimize the child, with which he acknowledges before the law that he is the father of the child.

The Thai law gives 3 possibilities to become the legal father of a child:

1. When the mother and father marry after the birth of the child, the father becomes automatically the legal father of the child.

2. The father asks to be registered as the legal father at the amphur. For this, two criteria has to be met. The first one is that the mother has to agree. The second one is that the child also has to agree. However, the law doesn't give an age at which the child can give consent. Most amphurs will accept the consent of the child when it is at least 7 years old, but some amphurs seem willing to accept the consent of a child when a child is as young as 3 years old. Taking a respected local person with you might increase your chance of registration at an early age.
There might be amphurs that will accept a registration of the father as the legal father when the father and mother appear at the amphur together to register the birth of the child and ask at the same time that the father be registered as the legal father. It is not according to the law.

3. The father petitions the court to become the legal father of the child. This is the only option that can be used when the child is too young or the mother or child don't consent to the legitimization. If the mother does consent, it is a relatively simply process, a longer one if the mother doesn't agree.

Note that becoming the legal father is not the same as gaining parental rights, that is a different subject. You might become the legal father, without getting parental rights. Becoming the legal father means that you establish family ties with the child. That is for example important for a child's nationality and right to inheritance. With establishing parental rights, you get authority over the child and can for example determine the place where a child stays.

Always check with your embassy how you can legitimize a child under the laws of your own country. In some cases, this can even be done before the child is born.

The above applies to a father who wants to become the legal father of a child. It is also possible that a father doesn't want to become the legal father of a child, but the mother or the child do want the father to legitimize the child. In that case, a paternity suit can be made against the father and the court will decide if the person is indeed the father of the child. This will establish family ties between the father and the child, which again relates to nationality and inheritance, but also gives the child right to child support.
The child often has more rights regarding this than the mother. Often, the mother has a limited period in which to file a paternity suit, while the child has a much longer time to file a paternity suit against the father.

For more information about parental rights and legitimization of a child under Thai law, read this article from Thai Law Online:
http://thailawonline.com/en/family/children/custody-of-a-child-thailand.html
 

 

[Billy_Bob]

Thanks guys for your clear answers!

So short answer is: getting a visa O based on Child without being married is not really a reasonable option.

[Scarface]

All sounds very messy, you sure it's worth the hassle fella?

[Faz]

8 minutes ago, Billy_Bob said:

Thanks guys for your clear answers!

So short answer is: getting a visa O based on Child without being married is not really a reasonable option.

Even with the multiple entry Non Imm O, it would only permit stays of 90 days, as @Tod-Daniels explained.
It wouldn't allow you to apply for the long term 1 year extensions based on Thai child without being legalised as the Father.

You'd need to take the legal route via option 3 posted above, by petitioning the Court, which is relatively straight forward if the Mother complies. A DNA test could also be an advantage in this respect.

[friendofthai]

52 minutes ago, Billy_Bob said:

Thanks guys for your clear answers!

So short answer is: getting a visa O based on Child without being married is not really a reasonable option.

I have got about 5 sequential visas Non-O based on Child without being married from 2018 to 2020 in Vientiane. Documents used during applications:

1. Copy of birth certificate signed by me and my Thai lady
2. Copy of tabien Baan of Thai child signed by me and my Thai lady
3. Copy of tabien Baan of Thai Lady signed by me and my Thai lady
4. Bank statement (I used a copy of my Thai bank Passbook instead).
5. Copy of the first page of my passport

[friendofthai]

.. I forget to mention:

6. A signed letter from my Thai lady that she want them to give visa to me to live together and take care the family.

[Tod-Daniels]

3 hours ago, Billy_Bob said:

Thanks guys for your clear answers!

So short answer is: getting a visa O based on Child without being married is not really a reasonable option.

A year-long, multi-entry Non-O visa based on being the father of a thai child from a nearby thai consulate that will issue it is a reasonable option while you get an uncontested paternal rights case thru family court (which as I said can take up to 6 months)
Even though that visa requires you to leave every 90 days to get another 90 day entry stamp it will afford you more than a year stay here (90 days at a time)

[Tod-Daniels]

2 hours ago, friendofthai said:

I have got about 5 sequential visas Non-O based on Child without being married from 2018 to 2020 in Vientiane.

These were year-long, multi-entry Non-O visas?
I'm asking because as a rule ONLY Savannakhet was issuing year-multi-Non-O's not Vientiane (they'd only issue 90 day single entry no matter if it was marriage or raising half thai children) 

[friendofthai]

1 hour ago, Tod-Daniels said:

These were year-long, multi-entry Non-O visas?
I'm asking because as a rule ONLY Savannakhet was issuing year-multi-Non-O's not Vientiane (they'd only issue 90 day single entry no matter if it was marriage or raising half thai children) 

You are right, In Vientiane it is possible to get only a Single Entry Non-O. SE Non-O gives a 90 days stamp on arrival. After that I usually went to local immigration (with the child and his mother) and buy additional 60 days. And, after 90+60=150 days I went to Vientiane again.

Edited May 28, 2022 by friendofthai

[friendofthai]

Let's assess the risks of a visa-run to Vientiane for a Non-O visa based on Thai child without being married to thai lady. 
What if one day they stop selling Non-O for non-married guys? You can also buy a Tourist visa there. Tourist visa will give you 60 days stamp. After that you can be stamped for additional 30 days for 1900 baht in any immigration office. And then you can get additional 60 days as a parent of thai child. 60+30+60 = 150, the same number of days as for entering via Non-O visa.

Edited May 29, 2022 by friendofthai

[Faz]

2 hours ago, friendofthai said:

What if one day they stop selling Non-O for non-married guys?

That will never happen. The Non O (O = Other) is issued for multiple other reasons under clause 15 and not listed in clause 1-14 of section 34 of the Immigration Act.