News Forum - Governor to drain the swamp with Bangkok’s criminal fraternity

[Thaiger]

Chadchart Sittipunt made over 200 pledges prior to his landslide election victory last Sunday with the economy, environment, and health, high on his list of priorities. And when the Bangkok governor-elect vowed to clean up the metropolis, he wasn’t kidding. The 56 year old’s four-year term as governor began in earnest this week and, his agreement to use criminals to clean the city’s sewers, reveals he’s not afraid to make controversial decisions. Chadchart shows he clearly has an eye for the economy, environment, and what is good for the public sector, when he expressed “convicts have done a better job […]

The story Governor to drain the swamp with Bangkok’s criminal fraternity as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Fanta]

A-hole. If you have ever seen these criminals, wearing shorts and flip flops, covered in God knows what below the road level and inside the sewers lifting buckets of waste out above their heads then you cannot help but feel sorry for them. These people are being punished for their crimes by isolation from the community. They are not slaves to do the bidding of people who are ironically also tasked with their rehabilitation and well being. Total a-hole.

[Skip]

18 hours ago, Fanta said:

A-hole. If you have ever seen these criminals, wearing shorts and flip flops, covered in God knows what below the road level and inside the sewers lifting buckets of waste out above their heads then you cannot help but feel sorry for them. These people are being punished for their crimes by isolation from the community. They are not slaves to do the bidding of people who are ironically also tasked with their rehabilitation and well being. Total a-hole.

I feel sorry for you for feeling sorry for criminals... who decided that isolation is "punishment enough" for criminals... IMHO they should be positively "employed" doing labor to better serve the communities that they, as criminals, cheated in the first place.

[HiuMak]

8 minutes ago, Skip said:

I feel sorry for you for feeling sorry for criminals... who decided that isolation is "punishment enough" for criminals... IMHO they should be positively "employed" doing labor to better serve the communities that they, as criminals, cheated in the first place.

free labour why not

[KaptainRob]

6 minutes ago, HiuMak said:

free labour why not

It's not FREE.  The state pays to incarcerate them and also provides a meagre income for such work, paid upon release.

[Fanta]

28 minutes ago, Skip said:

I feel sorry for you for feeling sorry for criminals... who decided that isolation is "punishment enough" for criminals... IMHO they should be positively "employed" doing labor to better serve the communities that they, as criminals, cheated in the first place.

 I would feel sorry for humanity if your post was indicative of the modern world’s attitude towards rehabilitation and care of prisoners. Thankfully in developed countries it is not. Norway has been criticized for it’s seemingly easy treatment of inmates. Not coincidentally they also have one of the lowest rates of recidivism in the world. Apart from corporal punishment, what is the worst punishment that can be inflicted on a prisoner - solitary isolation. How does the US “persuade” terrorists to spill the beans? Free oral irrigation and solitary isolation.

Put down your bull whip for a moment, give your chain-gang a 10 minute break and read the following. You might even learn why your archaic thinking towards incarceration does more harm than good.

https://digitalcommons.coastal.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1032&context=bridges

[Cabra]

All human beings deserve humane treatment. Being a criminal does not mean they should be forced to do labor for the state. The worse of the worst should not even be on work release. And anyone who AGREES to work release should be nominally paid and treated fairly. It's the right thing to do. Prison is not suppose to be a picnic, but it shouldn't mean you are a slave or be abused. At the end of the day, if the prisoners agree, and are happy to to it (for a few baht and time away from their cells), then win-win. 

[Skip]

22 hours ago, HiuMak said:

free labour why not

Actually it's not free labor... these criminals are a burden on society in so many ways... they are just being asked to work off this debt.

[Skip]

20 hours ago, Cabra said:

All human beings deserve humane treatment. Being a criminal does not mean they should be forced to do labor for the state.

 

Humane treatment and working off your debt to society do not have to be opposing positions... if so needed criminals can and should be called upon to work off their debt... why do they get to continue to be burdens to the society without repercussions... they are criminals... an illegal actor who can be punished by the government

[Fanta]

6 minutes ago, Skip said:

Actually it's not free labor... these criminals are a burden on society in so many ways... they are just being asked to work off this debt.

“Being asked…” that’s cute. They will be told. Using the logic that prisoners owe a debt leads to the inevitable conclusion that anyone using state funds  should be put to work. Fair is fair, right? Various groups were wailing that prisoners were making fishing nets but none have said a word in protest that prisoners may be ”asked” to enter a toxic environment with minimal, if any, protective gear to slosh around in a city’s sewerage in return for about a dollar a day pay before being returned to a prison with woefully inadequate medical care. Look at the bright side, they get the day outside to see the inside of a sewage drain. What a treat! 

[Fanta]

22 minutes ago, Skip said:

they are criminals... an illegal actor who can be punished by the government

Who are you to decide what punishment they should receive? Answer: no-one. 
The criminal code and the judge decide what punishments are suitable for criminals.  You seem to think these people, and I remind you that they are people, owe a debt to society. Their incarceration is their debt payment. 

[Skip]

22 hours ago, Fanta said:

 Put down your bull whip for a moment, give your chain-gang a 10 minute break and read the following. You might even learn why your archaic thinking towards incarceration does more harm than good.

https://digitalcommons.coastal.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1032&context=bridges

Actually the discussion here is whether or not inmates should be asked to work while they are in prison... not about recidivism... but given that.. I did read the article and it was interesting but lacking in comparative analysis regarding demographics... other countries have similar programs to Norway and their recidivism rates are much higher.

I was able to find that criminals in Norway are of a particularly limited demographic that for whatever reason are more accepting of changing their ways... the study had limited focus and was presumptive that it was the system and not the demographic that made the difference... 

All that still doesn't answer the question... should criminals be asked to work for their living rather than being sponges living off the tit of the state? Asking criminals to produce for society is not "archaic"... hopefully it is a trend to the future.

 

[Skip]

19 minutes ago, Fanta said:

“Being asked…” that’s cute. They will be told. Using the logic that prisoners owe a debt leads to the inevitable conclusion that anyone using state funds  should be put to work. Fair is fair, right? Various groups were wailing that prisoners were making fishing nets but none have said a word in protest that prisoners may be ”asked” to enter a toxic environment with minimal, if any, protective gear to slosh around in a city’s sewerage in return for about a dollar a day pay before being returned to a prison with woefully inadequate medical care. Look at the bright side, they get the day outside to see the inside of a sewage drain. What a treat! 

So what is your answer... coddle prisoners... they put themselves where they are... 

[Skip]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Who are you to decide what punishment they should receive? Answer: no-one. 
The criminal code and the judge decide what punishments are suitable for criminals.  You seem to think these people, and I remind you that they are people, owe a debt to society. Their incarceration is their debt payment. 

The debt mounts everyday they are in prison... who's paying for the upkeep... certainly not them.

[Skip]

23 minutes ago, Fanta said:

“Being asked…” that’s cute. They will be told. Using the logic that prisoners owe a debt leads to the inevitable conclusion that anyone using state funds  should be put to work. Fair is fair, right? Various groups were wailing that prisoners were making fishing nets but none have said a word in protest that prisoners may be ”asked” to enter a toxic environment with minimal, if any, protective gear to slosh around in a city’s sewerage in return for about a dollar a day pay before being returned to a prison with woefully inadequate medical care. Look at the bright side, they get the day outside to see the inside of a sewage drain. What a treat! 

You have lost sight of the premise... you assume that a criminal prisoner being put to work is in and of itself inhumane... My position is that it does not have to be... it can be a productive endeavor.  

It's not the fact that they are put to work that is the problem... it lies more in what manner that they are put to work... your argument is with the administrators of the work programs...

Answer if you can... why shouldn't prisoners be asked to be productive to society.

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, Skip said:

The debt mounts everyday they are in prison... who's paying for the upkeep... certainly not them

Turn prisoners into tax payers. That’s where effective rehabilitation and reintegration into society comes in so as to reduce the instances of recidivism. It is no secret that Thai prisons are a revolving door for some in part due to the inmates own perceived and very real lack of opportunities upon release. They do their time and go back to doing what they did before because, despite knowing full well the possible repercussions of returning to a life of crime, that is all they know how to do to survive. There is no social security or safety net for these people. Prison should not solely be a place of punishment. It can and should be a place of learning & help to correct the ways of errant adults. It is a failure to address the root cause of the problems that cause some instances of recidivism. Everyone deserves a second chance, even criminals. And please get off the financial aspect of incarceration - if Thailand can afford to buy some Chinesium subs they can afford to invest in their own people so they become tax payers and not a perpetual drain on state coffers. 

[Fanta]

13 minutes ago, Skip said:

You have lost sight of the premise... you assume that a criminal prisoner being put to work is in and of itself inhumane... My position is that it does not have to be... it can be a productive endeavor.  

I object strongly to the idea of them being forced to scoop shit from sewers. Sure, prisoners should work to be rehabilitated,  learn new skills & discipline and contribute to society but that is not what is happening here. A political appointee wants the cheapest labor to do the shittiest job and aims to get that by using some of the most vulnerable people in society. It is exploitation not utilization.

[Fanta]

38 minutes ago, Skip said:

So what is your answer... coddle prisoners... they put themselves where they are... 

Walk into prison as an unskilled thief or drug dealer. Walk out of prison as a qualified tradesman of some sort. It is a no brainer for a bean counter with a long term view. Bonus - no bleeding heart required. 

[HiuMak]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:14 AM, KaptainRob said:

It's not FREE.  The state pays to incarcerate them and also provides a meagre income for such work, paid upon release.

but cheap... I think this is a good idea

[Smithydog]

42 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I object strongly to the idea of them being forced to scoop shit from sewers. Sure, prisoners should work to be rehabilitated,  learn new skills & discipline and contribute to society but that is not what is happening here. A political appointee wants the cheapest labor to do the shittiest job and aims to get that by using some of the most vulnerable people in society. It is exploitation not utilization.

I agree. I do not see how being forced to do such work, in the way described, will do anything else than build hatred from those involved. That in itself raises the potential peril from conducting such an exercise.

I do agree with the concept of prisoners doing work that helps them work towards eventual remission or reduction in sentence. Obviously lifers etc wouldn't be allowed outside the prison. The concept of "paying their way" has merit, but too me, just not when it is forced.