News Forum - British Embassy sparks controversy in Indonesia by raising LGBT+ flag

[Thaiger]

The British Embassy in Jakarta, Indonesia, hoisted a rainbow LGBT+ flag last week to mark the International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia on May 17. However, Indonesia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs have called the action “highly insensitive” to Indonesian people and have urged other foreign officials not to follow suit. The British Embassy posted a photo of the raised flag, alongside a Union Jack, with the caption… “We urge the international community to eradicate discrimination, including based on sexual orientation and gender identity, and to promote diversity and tolerance. We urge countries to decriminalise consensual same sex relations, and […]

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[HighSo]

Good from Indonesia.

This unnatural behavior of the minority of LGBTQ-people, who inherit a de facto sexual disorder, should not be publicized like that. It is against the order of nature, any other people than hetero cannot reproduce. 
So anyone who would like to argue now „no it’s natural“, it simply isn’t. If all humans would be gay tomorrow, our species would be distinct within one generation.

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, HighSo said:

Good from Indonesia.

This unnatural behavior of the minority of LGBTQ-people, who inherit a de facto sexual disorder, should not be publicized like that. It is against the order of nature, any other people than hetero cannot reproduce. 
So anyone who would like to argue now „no it’s natural“, it simply isn’t. If all humans would be gay tomorrow, our species would be distinct within one generation.

I don’t totally disagree with the sentiment of your comments. However, support in the form of flag for those that would otherwise be classified as criminals and face punishment is fine with me.

While it’s true that  if we were all gay (IVF apart) humanity would be extinct, the whole of humanity will never be gay. Supporting gay or LGBT rights isn’t like promoting the latest model of car or fast food. Promoting it won’t result in us all slowly becoming gay. Nature, as you suggest will ensure that never happens. 

The flying of the flag was to support those who are LGBT by nature and don’t deserve to be persecuted by outdated political and religious bigots. 
 

Live and let live I say. We are all on this planet for a very short time. Why waste it  with hatred and intolerance. 

[23RD]

I'd love to know if this was a directive from The Foreign and Commonwealth Office or a virtue signaller within The Embassy?

The only flag flying above a British Embassy should  be the Union flag it's a diplomatic building not a virtue signalling Palace. 

The Embassy staff should have been more aware of the cultural differences. 

What next we'll have BLM flags flying from US Embassies. 

[Chatogaster]

1 hour ago, HighSo said:

Good from Indonesia.

This unnatural behavior of the minority of LGBTQ-people, who inherit a de facto sexual disorder, should not be publicized like that. It is against the order of nature, any other people than hetero cannot reproduce. 
So anyone who would like to argue now „no it’s natural“, it simply isn’t. If all humans would be gay tomorrow, our species would be distinct within one generation.

 

Imagine a Bell curve. At the middle, there's the group of people that have produced 1.9 children (that statistic obviously varies by year). Those are the "most natural" people. Stray away a bit from the middle (in either direction) and you'll find "less natural" people.

I'm a heterosexual who has made a conscious decision to not propagate, so I'm part of a small percentile on the left of the mean which places me in the same bracket as gay people aka the "quite unnatural people".

I'm perfectly fine with being called as "someone who goes against nature". I actually consider it a compliment as it shows that reasoning can overcome animalistic drives, which are an integral part of what you define "natural". If you don't include intelligence or other prevalent traits into your definition of "natural", you're absolutely right to label certain people "unnatural"... but in that process, the word "natural" has lost any relevant significance when applied to humans.
 

 

[ThaiFoodGuy]

36 minutes ago, 23RD said:

What next we'll have BLM flags flying from US Embassies. 

I hope you're being sarcastic because this has already happened...

[Pinetree]

This is not a surprise, they have been plowing their own irrelevant furrows for years. .  UK Embassies the world over are an anachronism and do virtually nothing for the UK, or its citizens, at home and abroad.    With the possible exception of the Embassies in the US and at the EU, they should all be shut and the Ambassador and a very, very small staff accommodated in a capital city down town office.  This is exactly the set up in Taiwan and from my dealings with them  its probably one of the most proactive and useful  'Missions' around.   For rather obvious reasons to do with the Western cowardice towards Taiwan, it is a 'Mission' and not an Embassy, with a very small staff, which  rather proves the point.  Get rid of them. 

[Poolie]

38 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

This is not a surprise, they have been plowing their own irrelevant furrows for years. .  UK Embassies the world over are an anachronism and do virtually nothing for the UK, or its citizens, at home and abroad.    With the possible exception of the Embassies in the US and at the EU, they should all be shut and the Ambassador and a very, very small staff accommodated in a capital city down town office.  This is exactly the set up in Taiwan and from my dealings with them  its probably one of the most proactive and useful  'Missions' around.   For rather obvious reasons to do with the Western cowardice towards Taiwan, it is a 'Mission' and not an Embassy, with a very small staff, which  rather proves the point.  Get rid of them. 

Ever since Tony 'the l***' Blair withdrew their funding to pay for citizen ID cards, they have been bloody useless.

[Vigo]

1 hour ago, HighSo said:

Good from Indonesia.

This unnatural behavior of the minority of LGBTQ-people, who inherit a de facto sexual disorder, should not be publicized like that. It is against the order of nature, any other people than hetero cannot reproduce. 
So anyone who would like to argue now „no it’s natural“, it simply isn’t. If all humans would be gay tomorrow, our species would be distinct within one generation.

It appears that you are a self anointed and self appointed expert in sexual behaviour,  natural science and reproductive biology. There is overwhelming evidence of same sex behaviour in the animal world and it has been documented in human society for eons. The sexual health and psychology experts do not consider homosexuality a "de facto sexual disorder". You do. Because you imagine it as a disorder does not amke it a disorder. Many  heterosexuals are incapable of reproduction. Does this make them subhuman or subject to a defacto sexual disorder?

1 hour ago, 23RD said:

I'd love to know if this was a directive from The Foreign and Commonwealth Office or a virtue signaller within The Embassy?

The only flag flying above a British Embassy should  be the Union flag it's a diplomatic building not a virtue signalling Palace. 

The Embassy staff should have been more aware of the cultural differences. 

What next we'll have BLM flags flying from US Embassies. 

One of the   roles of an embassy is to  display the values and beliefs of the people it represents. You call ti virtue signalling, but its an activity that has gone on for centuries. Embassies have flown Rotary and Lions club flags over the years as a gesture of solidarity on international days. The pink breast cancer flags have been raised as have the white ribbon flags for campaigns against domestic violence. these gestures reflect the national sentiments.   Flying a rainbow flag is hardly an act of violence. On the contrary it is a low key  gesture of showing solidarity  with the millions of Indonesians  who are of that persuasion. 

29 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

This is not a surprise, they have been plowing their own irrelevant furrows for years. .  UK Embassies the world over are an anachronism and do virtually nothing for the UK, or its citizens, at home and abroad.    With the possible exception of the Embassies in the US and at the EU, they should all be shut and the Ambassador and a very, very small staff accommodated in a capital city down town office.  This is exactly the set up in Taiwan and from my dealings with them  its probably one of the most proactive and useful  'Missions' around.   For rather obvious reasons to do with the Western cowardice towards Taiwan, it is a 'Mission' and not an Embassy, with a very small staff, which  rather proves the point.  Get rid of them. 

The UK embassy is a vital component of expressing the UK's national interests. It is a major force for  promoting trade and protecting the livelihoods of millions of UK workers who rely on foreign markets. The embassies (or High Commissions) are an integral part of protecting  the rights of UK nationals overseas. Because you do not need or use their services does not mean that the thousands of UK nationals who require diplomatic assistance or services would not.  The UK embassy acts as a beacon of freedom in some very horrible countries.

[23RD]

14 minutes ago, Vigo said:

Flying a rainbow flag is hardly an act of violence. On the contrary it is a low key  gesture of showing solidarity  with the millions of Indonesians  who are of that persuasion

So you're saying Vigo my old China that there's Millions of Gay folk in Muslim majority Indonesia?.

As for the flying off virtue signalling flags representing British values I think it represents a minority not a majority. 

[Vigo]

5 minutes ago, 23RD said:

So you're saying Vigo my old China that there's Millions of Gay folk in Muslim majority Indonesia?.

As for the flying off virtue signalling flags representing British values I think it represents a minority not a majority. 

You do know that the population of Indonesia is  275million+, right?  There are estimates of 8 million of the alphabet people, let's be very conservative and use only 1-2% which is far less than the  population studies suggest.  That gives a range of 2- 5 million.

The UK is one of the more progressive  societies  around when it comes to respect for human rights. Survey after survey shows that 90% of the population are ok  with the alphabet crew.Have you visited the UK in the past 25 years? Society changed, much of it for the good despite the complaints one reads all the time.

 

[BigHewer]

I would be interested to know which other British embassies around the world raised that flag on May 17th.

Only in Indonesia of all places? Why be so provocative?

[23RD]

17 minutes ago, Vigo said:

You do know that the population of Indonesia is  275million+, right?  There are estimates of 8 million of the alphabet people, let's be very conservative and use only 1-2% which is far less than the  population studies suggest.  That gives a range of 2- 5 million.

Using the same mathematical equation work out how many of those 275 million folk are radicalised or very strict devout Muslims that would be offended by the   flag.

 

23 minutes ago, Vigo said:

Have you visited the UK in the past 25 years? Society changed, much of it for the good despite the complaints one reads all the time.

Not for 10 years now Vigo but I'm not to sure things are better.

As for the alphabet people if anyone wants to crossdress or identify as one of the many new genders it's a case of what ever floats your boat I'd only demand 3 things 

1. Leave the kids alone until their 18 and  can make their own minds up.

2. Don't expect special treatment from everyone else because of your disorder. 

3. Don't try and force it on normal folk .

 

[23RD]

29 minutes ago, BigHewer said:

I would be interested to know which other British embassies around the world raised that flag on May 17th.

Only in Indonesia of all places? Why be so provocative?

Good point BigHewer I remember last year the US Embassy at the Vatican hanging out the   flag.

It's not one size fits all these Embassy staff should have known better that fan volatile situations in certain Countries especially Muslim majority Countries. 

[HighSo]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

I don’t totally disagree with the sentiment of your comments. However, support in the form of flag for those that would otherwise be classified as criminals and face punishment is fine with me.

While it’s true that  if we were all gay (IVF apart) humanity would be extinct, the whole of humanity will never be gay. Supporting gay or LGBT rights isn’t like promoting the latest model of car or fast food. Promoting it won’t result in us all slowly becoming gay. Nature, as you suggest will ensure that never happens. 

The flying of the flag was to support those who are LGBT by nature and don’t deserve to be persecuted by outdated political and religious bigots. 
 

Live and let live I say. We are all on this planet for a very short time. Why waste it  with hatred and intolerance. 

The younger brother of my friend is 16 now. He got 3 gay people and 2 transgender in his class of around 20 people. He said this is normal now and in other classes as well.

When I was in school, just 10 years ago, we had one gay guy in the whole school. One in the whole school. And he told people that he got raped by his father as a child, so we were certain it was because of that trauma.

You cannot deny that there is a huge propaganda regarding this LBGTQ thing nowadays. Young kids are easy to influence. They are being told they can love a boy as a boy, or that they could be a girl in the body of a girl. And then a seed is planted and things will develop in a way, that would’ve never went this way.

So I disagree with you and claim, all this publicity about this topic is influencing, almost brainwashing, especially the young generation.

Combine this with for example Bisphenol A, the softener in plastic products which is proven to make boys more „soft“ as well, as it works on the estrogen receptors. And other stuff in our „modern“ daily life that slowly is proven to totally disrupt our hormones.
 

I just want to defend the law of nature. I cannot read about this LGBTQ thing anymore. As soon as I point out my reasonable criticism somewhere online, I get banned, blocked and censored. That’s why I am getting even more eager to spread my POV.

I am surely not in favor of doing gay people any harm. I agree with you, let them live like they want. But I am against this publicity and propaganda making it seem normal. It is not, by fact.

[vvdb.fr]

the problem is when belief is above science. the holy books are filled with stupidity that science has revealed... being in denial does not allow you to evolve. Humanity has multiplied by one million knowledge since the writing of the holy books, it's very annoying.

bonobo chimpanzees have sexual relations to ease tensions, with any member of the community, male or female...it's natural.

Julius Caesar was bisexual, it never bothered, it was normal behavior at the time ...

[Soidog]

27 minutes ago, HighSo said:

When I was in school, just 10 years ago, we had one gay guy in the whole school. One in the whole school. And he told people that he got raped by his father as a child, so we were certain it was because of that trauma.

Again, sorry but I don’t accept that as a fact. You may have only known of one gay person in the school, but there will have been many many more. Either the culture of the school was such that they didn’t feel safe to admit it, it was not a typical cross section of society, or there were only 50 people in the school. In my own country (U.K.) the percentage of gay people aged 16 or over is typically around 2.5%. Reading the statistics this has “increased” from around 1.5% compared to 5 years ago. I don’t however accept that that is a genuine increase brought about by societies greater acceptance of being gay, more that people have been prepared to come out as gay as society is now more accepting. 
 

I do think there are potentially bi-sexual people who in previous generations decided to hide their sexual orientation and claim to be straight. However, I do find it sad that people are made to choose and not be who they want to be.
 

Im heterosexual and could never imagine any amount of acceptance, advertising, normalising or indeed money, that would make me wish to be gay!
 

Finally, I think it is wrong that you are banned or shut down/cancelled simply for expressing your truly felt opinions. Hopefully you will be able to express your views and opinions in line with forum guidelines and fair minded decency here. 

[Alavan]

3 hours ago, 23RD said:

As for the flying off virtue signalling flags representing British values I think it represents a minority not a majority.

The values they represent is respect for everybody, minorities included, contrary to some countries that don't see it that way. That is a value that must be applauded.
Why must gays be executed in some countries?

[23RD]

9 minutes ago, Alavan said:

The values they represent is respect for everybody, minorities included, contrary to some countries that don't see it that way. That is a value that must be applauded.
Why must gays be executed in some countries?

Like I've said in a previous post the Union flag is the only flag that should fly over a UK Embassy or a National flag off other Embassies as national flags really do represent everyone in their Country not making exceptions for certain groups. 

 

[Dmitrii]

9 hours ago, HighSo said:

Good from Indonesia.

This unnatural behavior of the minority of LGBTQ-people, who inherit a de facto sexual disorder, should not be publicized like that. It is against the order of nature, any other people than hetero cannot reproduce. 
So anyone who would like to argue now „no it’s natural“, it simply isn’t. If all humans would be gay tomorrow, our species would be distinct within one generation.

So what?

We already have more people than Earth is able to sustain.

If some people do not reproduce the overpopulation issue will become a little less severe.

And we are talking about less than 10% of the world's population, there is no reason to worry about extinction.

[HiuMak]

9 hours ago, 23RD said:

It's not one size fits all these Embassy staff should have known better that fan volatile situations in certain Countries especially Muslim majority Countries. 

Pommies at it again. No respect for the islamic country

[Pinetree]

14 hours ago, Vigo said:

It appears that you are a self anointed and self appointed expert in sexual behaviour,  natural science and reproductive biology. There is overwhelming evidence of same sex behaviour in the animal world and it has been documented in human society for eons. The sexual health and psychology experts do not consider homosexuality a "de facto sexual disorder". You do. Because you imagine it as a disorder does not amke it a disorder. Many  heterosexuals are incapable of reproduction. Does this make them subhuman or subject to a defacto sexual disorder?

One of the   roles of an embassy is to  display the values and beliefs of the people it represents. You call ti virtue signalling, but its an activity that has gone on for centuries. Embassies have flown Rotary and Lions club flags over the years as a gesture of solidarity on international days. The pink breast cancer flags have been raised as have the white ribbon flags for campaigns against domestic violence. these gestures reflect the national sentiments.   Flying a rainbow flag is hardly an act of violence. On the contrary it is a low key  gesture of showing solidarity  with the millions of Indonesians  who are of that persuasion. 

The UK embassy is a vital component of expressing the UK's national interests. It is a major force for  promoting trade and protecting the livelihoods of millions of UK workers who rely on foreign markets. The embassies (or High Commissions) are an integral part of protecting  the rights of UK nationals overseas. Because you do not need or use their services does not mean that the thousands of UK nationals who require diplomatic assistance or services would not.  The UK embassy acts as a beacon of freedom in some very horrible countries.

I have needed and used their supposed trade and commercial services and they  have been universally useless , with the exception of Taiwan and we even had to pay them to do anything, Virtue signaling is not their role.  Although goodness only knows what that is nowadays. Whatever it is, they are not doing it. 

[Vigo]

11 hours ago, Pinetree said:

I have needed and used their supposed trade and commercial services and they  have been universally useless , with the exception of Taiwan and we even had to pay them to do anything, Virtue signaling is not their role.  Although goodness only knows what that is nowadays. Whatever it is, they are not doing it. 

Ok, you are unhappy with the service that you requested. That's the motivation for your position. I am  certain that for every unhappy client there are many satisfied clients.

[Grumpish]

23 hours ago, HiuMak said:

Pommies at it again. No respect for the islamic country

Difficult to have respect for some aspects of Islamic culture - in this case a prohibition against carnal relations with your favourite dancing boy while at the same time carnal relations with your favourite goat is allowed.

[Pinetree]

3 hours ago, Grumpish said:

Difficult to have respect for some aspects of Islamic culture - in this case a prohibition against carnal relations with your favourite dancing boy while at the same time carnal relations with your favourite goat is allowed.

or sister, or cousin, which is common.