News Forum - Russia’s FM Sergei Lavrov warns US not to supply Ukraine with arms

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, vlad said:

Russia will also be reduced to Ash in a Retaliatory counter strike.

Aging Dying Shaking Putin will get a bullet to the head if his geriatric fingers start moving towards that red button. 

[oldschooler]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

More civilians rescues from the Avozsteel

“Fifty more civilians, including 11 children, have been rescued from tunnels under a besieged steel plant in Mariupol where Ukrainian fighters have been making their last stand against Russian forces in the port city.”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/6/ukraine-says-more-civilians-rescued-from-mariupol-steelworks 

Weird Obsession with Mariupol.

Donbass Battle way more important.   

[oldschooler]

On 5/6/2022 at 1:28 PM, Fanta said:

Your opinion of Putin’s popularity is your opinion. His lap dog social analysts claim he has an 83.5% approval rating. I’m sure Zelenskyy’s puppy mill can produce a bigger figure if they ignore the Southern and Eastern regions. After all 20% of refugees disagree. Your oft repeated hope that Russia is destroyed or hollowed out at whatever cost to Ukraine can only be realistically achieved with a war against Russia by NATO and most of the NATO crew are too happy huffing the gas to risk that. 

Like Putin himself, nobody cares about Putin “ popularity”. Tyrants don’t concern themselves with what their people think . Zelensky clearly has vast majority support Everywhere. No poll ever taken of Refugees who have only Survival concerns. 
 

Ukraine must pay whatever the final price is to ensure Russia never returns. Ukraine have clearly decided that. Reparations from Russia will Compensate. 

[oldschooler]

15 hours ago, Poolie said:

I'm guessing here because the question isnt asked of me, so forgive me.

Because the bad news comes from the western press, which by it's own admission is tainted?

“ Western Press” Broken Record, Again.
Russian & Chinese Unaccountable Unfree Press assumed 100% Lies. Western “ press” maybe 5-10% lies.  Guess which is Better  ? Duuh……

Right ? so now FORGET the “ press”. Refer ONLY to Western Govt/ Defence Ministers who are accountable & speak truth directly to us,on media, based on shared accountable Govt. intelligence. 
 

Plus Western Military Experts appearing directly on western media. Former NATO US / UK General Officers speaking truth to us directly from Knowledge  Intel Experience Analysis.
NONE of them lie on air/ in “ press”as they would be exposed by their peers & their reputations and income would then be gone.

[Fanta]

44 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

No civilized person gives a damn about the fate of Russian barbarian invaders.

Only that they DIE …..in large numbers.

Another snap poll. Wow, you Internet pollsters are quick! You should get some work with the TAT, they have a tenuous grasp of numbers. You’d fit right in. 

 

[vlad]

On 5/1/2022 at 3:39 AM, Fanta said:

You are kidding right? Russia did OK in Syria with their supposedly decimated and neglected inventory. Their weapon exports have grown every year despite sanctions and Covid supply chain shortages. Russia has been preparing for the liklehood of this invasion since Putin’s puppet was sent packing on February 22, 2014 - 7 years ago. The poorly equipped, demoralized Russian Armed Forces story just isn’t translating to the battlefield. Nukes won’t happen. Too much risk for too little a reward. 

Their supposed weaponry wasn't up to much against the Afghans who were mainly using Ak47s  and RPGs, did they?

[Fanta]

37 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Ukraine must pay whatever the final price is to ensure Russia never returns. Ukraine have clearly decided that. Reparations from Russia will Compensate. 

How generous of you to risk the destruction of Ukraine as an independent nation so as to give Russia a black eye. Bully for you big guy. <~~~~ dripping with sarcasm

imo, Zelenskky never had a decision to make about this war. it’s reaching the point that Ukraine won’t have any choice about when the war ends. Uncle Spam has got the blood lust on. Zelenskyy’s recent vow that Russia must retreat to Feb 25 territory as a condition for peace is as achievable as his previous vow that the trapped Mariupol soldiers be spared as a condition for peace. He’ll lose Donbass and the land bridge from Crimea to Russia. If he wants to keep Odessa, Ukraine’s last sea port for exports, he will accept Putin’s terms. Or he may be forced to deliver your wish. 

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, vlad said:

Their supposed weaponry wasn't up to much against the Afghans who were mainly using Ak47s  and RPGs, did they?

Ask the Syrians. 

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Ask the Syrians. 

I think the days of being able to claim Czar Putins thugs are an effective fighting force are well past.

[Grumpish]

It was the US supplying (and training) what eventually became the Taliban with Stinger ground to air missiles that had the greatest effect in the Russians in Afghanistan.

[Grumpish]

21 minutes ago, vlad said:

Their supposed weaponry wasn't up to much against the Afghans who were mainly using Ak47s  and RPGs, did they?

It was the US supplying (and training) what eventually became the Taliban with Stinger ground to air missiles that had the greatest effect in the Russians in Afghanistan.

[Fanta]

30 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I think the days of being able to claim Czar Putins thugs are an effective fighting force are well past.

Depends who you believe. I don’t believe either sides claims. Propaganda is a dirty word to the naive but the adults can agree that it is an essential part of war and used by both sides in any conflict. For example: Ukraine has lost a navy and their ports are blockaded while Russia has lost 4 or 5 out of 40. That is undeniable. The territory lost by Ukraine vs the progress made by Russia. That is undeniable. The artillery, tanks,, troop, material etc losses by both sides are the most open to manipulation for propaganda purposes. That is undeniable. Claiming military effectiveness or lack therefore based on propganda is akin to solving a Rubick’s cube against the clock while blindfolded. You won’t know if you got it right until the end. 

[Rookiescot]

17 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Depends who you believe. I don’t believe either sides claims. Propaganda is a dirty word to the naive but the adults can agree that it is an essential part of war and used by both sides in any conflict. For example: Ukraine has lost a navy and their ports are blockaded while Russia has lost 4 or 5 out of 40. That is undeniable. The territory lost by Ukraine vs the progress made by Russia. That is undeniable. The artillery, tanks,, troop, material etc losses by both sides are the most open to manipulation for propaganda purposes. That is undeniable. Claiming military effectiveness or lack therefore based on propganda is akin to solving a Rubick’s cube against the clock while blindfolded. You won’t know if you got it right until the end. 

No THE defining issue here is that Czar Putins thugs have still failed to take targets they should have expected to take within the first 48 hours. Including the Ukraines capitol. 

The capture of the airfields around Kyiv were a disaster. What should have been a lightning offensive from the north driving towards Kyiv reduced to a slog then eventually chased back over the border. Same in the east of the country.

In the southeast all those vast armies of Czar Putins thugs have managed to create is a 50km wide corridor towards the Crimea. Matter of time till that gets cut as heavy weapons arrive from the west.

So forget about propaganda. Look at the results for yourself. And lets not forget this is against a Ukrainian army supplied with aging soviet era equipment. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

How generous of you to risk the destruction of Ukraine as an independent nation so as to give Russia a black eye. Bully for you big guy. <~~~~ dripping with sarcasm

imo, Zelenskky never had a decision to make about this war. it’s reaching the point that Ukraine won’t have any choice about when the war ends. Uncle Spam has got the blood lust on. Zelenskyy’s recent vow that Russia must retreat to Feb 25 territory as a condition for peace is as achievable as his previous vow that the trapped Mariupol soldiers be spared as a condition for peace. He’ll lose Donbass and the land bridge from Crimea to Russia. If he wants to keep Odessa, Ukraine’s last sea port for exports, he will accept Putin’s terms. Or he may be forced to deliver your wish. 

You continually & tiresomely put this Clear Ukrainian Decision back on ME.

UKRAINE either HAVE or WILL Decide to pay whatever price, no matter how high, that they MUST, to be rid of Russian Menace Permanently ( or at least Temporarily). 

You always over- estimate Russian competence and under/ estimate Ukrainian / West Power here. Get Real. 

Russia fighting a NATO LEVEL ARMY defending its Homeland. Russian Army cannot match Ukraine / West so how can they possibly win this before Putin is removed ? Do Tell.

[Fanta]

55 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

You continually & tiresomely put this Clear Ukrainian Decision back on ME.

UKRAINE either HAVE or WILL Decide to pay whatever price, no matter how high, that they MUST, to be rid of Russian Menace Permanently ( or at least Temporarily). 

You always over- estimate Russian competence and under/ estimate Ukrainian / West Power here. Get Real. 

Russia fighting a NATO LEVEL ARMY defending its Homeland. Russian Army cannot match Ukraine / West so how can they possibly win this before Putin is removed ? Do Tell.

You have continually & tiresomely claimed that there shall be no peace until the “Russian barbarians are driven from Ukraine” and that Ukraine is a NATO trap for Russia.
You are backpedaling on your previous statement that Ukraine has to pay the “final price” after I gave you an estimated total cost - loss of independence. 
Your claims that Russia cannot win against a NATO backed Ukraine military ignores basic maths, history and progress to date.Russia lost in Afghanistan. The US - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan plus numerous backings of rebels in civil conflicts that went tits up. This is more of the same. Ukraine is Bambi in the woods against the Russian bear. Geographically it is a hop, skip and jump from Russia to Ukraine. How many Russian supply lines and equipment depots have been attacked? I doubt Ukraine even has much of a functioning railway system anymore. Without NATO boots on the ground this war will drag on and Ukraine will eventually lose. I hope there is peace soon. That will entail Ukraine losing some territory. imo, that is still better than the best case scenario of chasing Russia back across the border and then returning to a pile of rubble.

[Fanta]

45 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No THE defining issue here is that Czar Putins thugs have still failed to take targets they should have expected to take within the first 48 hours. Including the Ukraines capitol. 

 

Oh, you are back on about Kyiv. Gotta cheers those few and far between wins, right? 

48 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Look at the results for yourself. And lets not forget this is against a Ukrainian army supplied with aging soviet era equipment. 

The US has been supplying and training the Ukraine military for 8 years. The wonder weapons will help but will they turn the tide or just slow it? 
Progress? no navy, next to no air force and on the back foot. A minimum 100 km wide corridor from Crimea to Russia. Have a look at Ukraine’s progress, if backwards is progress?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Fanta said:

Oh, you are back on about Kyiv. Gotta cheers those few and far between wins, right? 

The US has been supplying and training the Ukraine military for 8 years. The wonder weapons will help but will they turn the tide or just slow it? 
Progress? no navy, next to no air force and on the back foot. A minimum 100 km wide corridor from Crimea to Russia. Have a look at Ukraine’s progress, if backwards is progress?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

Thanks for the link (from the British Biased Corporation no less ) it demonstrates exactly what I just said.

It even provides maps with a useful scale which clearly demonstrates the corridor is less than 50 miles wide. So not the "minimum 100 miles wide that you wrongly claim.

Why do you keep trying to deflect onto the navy? The battle is for the Ukraine not the Black sea.

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

How generous of you to risk the destruction of Ukraine as an independent nation so as to give Russia a black eye. Bully for you big guy. <~~~~ dripping with sarcasm

To be fair that’s the Ukrainian’s choice and they are pretty clear about wanting to fight instead of being wiped out as a culture. What was Zelenskyy’s famous line: “I don’t need a ride, I need weapons” or something like that. I know it seems like the West is using Ukraine, and in a way it’s true. However let’s not forget the original choice didn’t belong to the West, it belong to Russia. In addition, the choice to continue doesn’t belong to the West either. Ironic when you consider some still blame the west, either being the reason this started or for the reason it continues. 

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

How generous of you to risk the destruction of Ukraine as an independent nation so as to give Russia a black eye. Bully for you big guy. <~~~~ dripping with sarcasm

imo, Zelenskky never had a decision to make about this war. it’s reaching the point that Ukraine won’t have any choice about when the war ends. Uncle Spam has got the blood lust on. Zelenskyy’s recent vow that Russia must retreat to Feb 25 territory as a condition for peace is as achievable as his previous vow that the trapped Mariupol soldiers be spared as a condition for peace. He’ll lose Donbass and the land bridge from Crimea to Russia. If he wants to keep Odessa, Ukraine’s last sea port for exports, he will accept Putin’s terms. Or he may be forced to deliver your wish. 

He’ll lose Donbass and the land bridge from Crimea to Russia? He effectively lost those in 2014. The bridge from Russia to Crimea could be a target now, though. Odesa is crucial and Ukraine has to hold it.

[Rookiescot]

30 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The US - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan plus numerous backings of rebels in civil conflicts that went tits up.

How did the US lose in Korea? In Afghanistan the Taliban only retook control AFTER western combat forces withdrew. The fact the Afghan army did nothing to stop the Taliban was the issue.

In Vietnam the USA never lost a single major military engagement with the NVA or Viet Cong. Again it was only AFTER US armed forces withdrew that South Vietnam started to lose.

Compare and contrast Czar Putins thugs performance with the two gulf wars. In the first one (desert storm) the ground war lasted 100 hours. After which it was decided by politicians the coalition armed forces needed to be stopped because it had become a turkey shoot.

Second gulf war it took coalition forces 22 days till the fall of Baghdad. 

Russian bear? Its a toothless, clawless, overweight old bear with a moral problem 

[Fanta]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Thanks for the link (from the British Biased Corporation no less ) it demonstrates exactly what I just said.

It even provides maps with a useful scale which clearly demonstrates the corridor is less than 50 miles wide. So not the "minimum 100 miles wide that you wrongly claim.

Why do you keep trying to deflect onto the navy? The battle is for the Ukraine not the Black sea.

BBC and only the best MSM for you. I strive to respect your dietary habits. You’re welcome
I wrote “a minimum 100 km wide corridor from Crimea to Russia.”  look at the scale - kilometers on top, miles on the bottom and check the land corridor width again. You’re welcome. 
The navy and air force status is undeniable - nearly everything else is opinion. The navy is blockading the ports, providing air defense and firing missiles into Ukraine. The land bridge from Romania is destroyed. Supply routes are being cut off daily. Exports via the sea has ground to a halt. The bottom of Ukraine is done. No Russian naval presence = a whole different story’.

[cake]

Russia is winning, don't fall for yet more lies. I can totally see a false flag, something along those lines to escalate.

This guy's blog goes into these areas allot. I don't agree with a lot of his writings, but he is over the target with the one a couple days ago.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/05/ukraines-forces-are-told-to-hold-the-line-where-russian-artillery-is-pulverizing-them.html

Everyone was expecting Russia to go fast because?, ... they are playing the long game.

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, Fester said:

He’ll lose Donbass and the land bridge from Crimea to Russia? He effectively lost those in 2014. The bridge from Russia to Crimea could be a target now, though. Odesa is crucial and Ukraine has to hold it.

Oh my… go look at pre and post invasion maps showing Russian controlled areas. You too Rookiescott if you think Donbass and the land bridge were under Russian control before the invasion. I already said Odessa was vital but I guess that’s where you learnt it. You are also welcome. 

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Depends who you believe. I don’t believe either sides claims. Propaganda is a dirty word to the naive but the adults can agree that it is an essential part of war and used by both sides in any conflict. For example: Ukraine has lost a navy and their ports are blockaded while Russia has lost 4 or 5 out of 40. That is undeniable. The territory lost by Ukraine vs the progress made by Russia. That is undeniable. The artillery, tanks,, troop, material etc losses by both sides are the most open to manipulation for propaganda purposes. That is undeniable. Claiming military effectiveness or lack therefore based on propganda is akin to solving a Rubick’s cube against the clock while blindfolded. You won’t know if you got it right until the end. 

Ukraine hardly had a navy to start with, the Russians stole most of that in Crimea. Meanwhile the Russians seem to be losing their most powerful ships in the Black Sea with encouraging regularity. 

That is undeniable. 

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, Fester said:

Ukraine hardly had a navy to start with, the Russians stole most of that in Crimea. Meanwhile the Russians seem to be losing their most powerful ships in the Black Sea with encouraging regularity. 

That is undeniable. 

The recent news is good news but 4 or 5 out of 40 in the Black Sea fleet is a sustainable loss. I provided a Wikipedia link to the Russian Black Sea fleet earlier. Do try to keep up.