Retirement Visa by the 65K method

[Faz]

10 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Anyway it is peculiar and in the end they can call it whatever they and make me do what ever they want as long a I am cleared to stay for the entire year which is for my NON O.

Like many foreigners staying in Thailand, as long as you obtain further extensions of stay, you're not concerned with the terminology. That's fine until you ask for advice, then the terminology does matter if you want the correct advice.

Retirement Visa - what is that?
The person asking a question could have a Non Imm O single or multi entry Visa, or a Non Imm O-A multi entry Visa, or even an extension of stay, which is a permit, not a Visa. Without knowing which of the above, an answer could differ depending on the question.

Some years ago, at a bar, a foreigner who had to return to his home Country rather hastily due to a family bereavement asked if he would have a problem returning. He stated he had a Non Imm O-A Visa.
No problem, I stated, as that Visa type is multi entry.
A few weeks later, he returned and was upset that on re-entry he was only granted a 30-day stay.
It transpired his Non O-A Visa expired 3 years earlier, and he had been extending his stay ever since.
He was under the impression he was extending his Visa because Immigration stated as such.

Had he stated he was on an extension of his stay and NOT a Non Imm O-A Visa, I would have advised he required a re-entry permit.

[HolyCowCm]

19 minutes ago, Faz said:

Like many foreigners staying in Thailand, as long as you obtain further extensions of stay, you're not concerned with the terminology. That's fine until you ask for advice, then the terminology does matter if you want the correct advice.

Retirement Visa - what is that?
The person asking a question could have a Non Imm O single or multi entry Visa, or a Non Imm O-A multi entry Visa, or even an extension of stay, which is a permit, not a Visa. Without knowing which of the above, an answer could differ depending on the question.

Some years ago, at a bar, a foreigner who had to return to his home Country rather hastily due to a family bereavement asked if he would have a problem returning. He stated he had a Non Imm O-A Visa.
No problem, I stated, as that Visa type is multi entry.
A few weeks later, he returned and was upset that on re-entry he was only granted a 30-day stay.
It transpired his Non O-A Visa expired 3 years earlier, and he had been extending his stay ever since.
He was under the impression he was extending his Visa because Immigration stated as such.

Had he stated he was on an extension of his stay and NOT a Non Imm O-A Visa, I would have advised he required a re-entry permit.

Yah and I do agree. When asking real questions it better to stick with the correct terminology to get the correct reply. Always those naughty little multi entry visas with an exp on them. Point taken on that one. When the time is up, the time is out. 

Cheers!

[artisans]

4 hours ago, Faz said:

@artisans

There is a further option open to you if your intention is firmly to retire in Thailand.

You can now obtain the Non O Visa from the USA for the purpose of retirement in Thailand.
https://thaiembdc.org/2020/09/30/nonimmigrantoaox/
Full requirements listed here; https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/

(Although it requires the compulsory Health Insurance requirement for the Non O application, it is not required when submitting applications for extensions of stay at local Thai Immigration offices.)

If you obtain and enter Thailand with a Non O Visa, on entry you'll be granted a stay of 90 days.
If you make 2 monthly overseas transfers of 65K, you should be able to apply for a 1-year extension thereafter.

I refer to Immigrations order No. 0029.l73/Wor 4950 Date: 21 December2018 Subject: Supporting evidence of income for visa extension in case of family members and retirement.
This was a clarification of acceptable supporting income for those whose Embassies ceased the Pension Income support letters, under order 138/2557.
Amend 138-2557 (2014) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 
Scroll down to section 2.22 (retirement) and I draw your attention to this statement.
 

What this essentially means is that if you've just retired and applying for your first extension of stay, you aren't required to provide evidence of 12 months overseas transfers until the following year.

Under the older requirements it was either 800K in a Thai bank for 90 days for extension applications, or an Embassy Income letter, with the exception of the very first extension application, which only required the 800K to be seasoned for 60 days, or an Embassy income letter after 60 days.
Proof of a pension statement meeting the requirement will undoubtably be requested.

An alternative option for you to consider.

This looks to be big step up and around the year long wait (with machinations)  to achieve a Thailand retirement visa, as we've discussed.  As I read it, it does require the round trip expense of returning to the US, applying and then entering Thailand from the US.  I could do without the expense, but if it fast forwards the visa and shortens the required financial accumulations - better to have it over and done and out of the slow march as we've discussed.

Yes, I'm determined to retire Thailand.

Just to confirm and clarify, is  this program only available if I'm applying and physically present when applying in the US?  and this full package would not work/be available if applying for a Non Imm O here in the region?

Question more,  regards Medical insurance - do I understand correctly that the Medical Insurance requirement has to be met to acquire the Non O Imm visa, but would not be necessary and could be dropped once I'm at the stage of applying the extension?       Would that no medical insurance required aspect also carry forward through the future   renewals/extensions? 

My current documented retirement income is just over the 65K thb with the 34 thb / U$.   Any shortfall if the baht strengthens is easily made up from other income or savings, as far as the bank transfer go.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by artisans
typing errors

[artisans]

9 hours ago, Tod-Daniels said:

"Artisans" you got good (in fact GREAT) advice from Faz. The answers were spot on (despite the other wing-nuts weighing in with their 2 satang of misinformation) 
As far as using a Citibank account for either banked money or monthly income method to show proof of funds that will be a tough undertaking.
First off they do not have passbooks <- meaning you need to go TO a Citibank the day you will file your application to get the detail transaction history print out dated that day so you can show the bank balance on the day you apply.
There are just a few citibanx in Bangkok meaning you're going to wait for one to open, GO there, get the paperwork from them, THEN slog on out to Chaengwattana to apply for the yearly extension.
You're way better using a bank that has multiple offices and that you can access out at Chaengwattana IF you are a document short.
Also as was pointed out, you cannot use the monthly income method to get the initial 90 day Non-O visa inside the country because you need 12 months of previous transfers of 65K baht a month seeing as your embassy doesn't issue the income affidavit.
I'd say until you have a year of monthly transfers (that are coded as originating from overseas not domestic transfers) you need to find an alternate way to stay, (tourist visa, METV, STV, ED visa) something to buy you the time until you hit 12 months of transfers. 
Just wanted to say Faz, really REALLY sound advice. Keep up the great work   

Glad to see you made it over and appreciate Faz's posting. As a dedicated guide yourself it must be heartening to see his work.

I appreciate your concern over using Citibank, but there are reasons for staying - split second and free transfers from my US Citibank to TH Citibank; have a long track record with TH Citibank and they've been very good, very responsive and their Citigold main office is at on the corner of Asoke / Sukhumvit.  In the past they documented in a letter my transactions  for immigrations and I'm sure they'd quickly  provide any last minute documentation needed. I'm prepared to risk it for a biscuit at Immigrations with Citibank TH.

Faz has, this morning, offered information on getting a Non O Imm visa applying from and out of the US. Worth your read and it's virtues have me thinking hard at cutting to the chase with a trip to US, then back with their Non O.  Would appreciate your thoughts there.

[Tod-Daniels]

5 hours ago, Faz said:

If you make 2 monthly overseas transfers of 65K, you should be able to apply for a 1-year extension thereafter.
 

Sadly I have never seen nor heard of a single person EVER get a year extension with just a couple monthly income transfers (no matter what the police order states (and I am well aware of how it's written) There is no office in the country that will let it go thru with that few

A person from any country whose consulate does not issue the affidavit of income from abroad letter who wants to use monthly income as the means to get the year extension needs 12 months of the minimum 65K baht a month transfers into the country.

This is from personal experience (going with people who swore that they could do it) AND they were denied the extension until they had 12 months worth   

[artisans]

1 hour ago, Tod-Daniels said:

Sadly I have never seen nor heard of a single person EVER get a year extension with just a couple monthly income transfers (no matter what the police order states (and I am well aware of how it's written) There is no office in the country that will let it go thru with that few

A person from any country whose consulate does not issue the affidavit of income from abroad letter who wants to use monthly income as the means to get the year extension needs 12 months of the minimum 65K baht a month transfers into the country.

This is from personal experience (going with people who swore that they could do it) AND they were denied the extension until they had 12 months worth   

Ok, I'm sure Faz will be along to comment.  As Charlie Chan said, 'someone always about to put fly in ointment'. 

Let me try to take this to an accounting and planning exercise. #1 my monthly 65K deposits began 3- 22      #2 in parallel my visa exempt and one 30 day extension my stay will end in 6-22                      #3  If, in 6-22 I went out of country, acquired a Non O imm with 90 days, returned to continue here until 9-22.                      #4  With one extension, another 90 days?  then I'm here until 12-22. Meanwhile my 65K deposits by 12-22 amount to 10 months, 2 months short of 1 year. Assuming all correct - what could I do to get to 2-23 and could I then request the 1 year retirement extension based on 12 months of 65K deposits?   

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by artisans

[Faz]

45 minutes ago, artisans said:

This looks to be big step up and around the year long wait (with machinations)  to achieve a Thailand retirement visa, as we've discussed.  As I read it, it does require the round trip expense of returning to the US, applying and then entering Thailand from the US.  I could do without the expense, but if it fast forwards the visa and shortens the required financial accumulations - better to have it over and done and out of the slow march as we've discussed.

Yes, I'm determined to retire Thailand.

Just to confirm and clarify, is  this program only available if I'm applying and physically present when applying in the US?  and this full package would not work/be available if applying for a Non Imm O here in the region?

As you're already in Thailand, I certainly wouldn't advise going back to the US, as already explained the Non O is available from more local Thai Embassies, subject to meeting their requirements.

If you don't mind me asking, when and how did you enter Thailand.

52 minutes ago, artisans said:

Question more,  regards Medical insurance - do I understand correctly that the Medical Insurance requirement has to be met to acquire the Non O Imm visa, but would not be necessary and could be dropped once I'm at the stage of applying the extension?       Would that no medical insurance required aspect also carry forward through the future   renewals/extensions? 

That's correct. In the last 2 years, they've sneaked the mandatory Health Insurance requirement (400/40K) onto the Non O Visa application. It only has to cover the period of stay granted on entry, that being 90 days. It is not required for 1 year annual extension applications.
Thai Embassies are regulated by Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, whilst Thai Immigration is a division of the Police, hence differences in requirements.
The Non O applied for at a Thai Embassy is a Visa. The 1-year extension is a permit (not a Visa) and grants temporary permission of stay.

Many foreigners intending to retire in Thailand avoid the Non O and Health Insurance requirement by entering Visa exempt or on a Tourist Visa. They then apply for the change in status from 'Tourist' to 'Non Immigrant' obtaining the Non O from their local Immigration office.
The procedure is here VE-TV to Non O Retirement.pdf 

1 hour ago, artisans said:

My current documented retirement income is just over the 65K thb with the 34 thb / U$.   Any shortfall if the baht strengthens is easily made up from other income or savings, as far as the bank transfer go.

If they request a pension statement (which my IO do every year) when using the income method and due to fluctuations in the exchange rate you fall short then can refuse your extension application. If you're borderline, I recommend the combination method as an alternative. 
According to orders, income is only accepted from pensions, investments and dividends.
The decision is at the discretion of the IO if requested where the income comes from.

Immigration orders are available to download from our forum here > Visas, Long Stay, Extensions, Re-entry Permit - Thaiger Talk (thethaiger.com)  as well as some other sticky topics, that you may, or may not find of interest.

[Faz]

6 minutes ago, artisans said:

Let me try to take this to an accounting and planning exercise. #1 my monthly 65K deposits began 3- 22      #2 in parallel my visa exempt and one 30 day extension my stay will end in 6-22                      #3  If, in 6-22 I went out of country, acquired a Non O imm with 90 days, returned to continue here until 9-22.                      #4  With one extension, another 90 days?

You can only extend 30 days from a VE or TV entry.
You cannot extend your stay from a Non O Visa unless applying for the 1-year extension.
The above based on retirement.

[artisans]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

As you're already in Thailand, I certainly wouldn't advise going back to the US, as already explained the Non O is available from more local Thai Embassies, subject to meeting their requirements.

If you don't mind me asking, when and how did you enter Thailand.

That's correct. In the last 2 years, they've sneaked the mandatory Health Insurance requirement (400/40K) onto the Non O Visa application. It only has to cover the period of stay granted on entry, that being 90 days. It is not required for 1 year annual extension applications.
Thai Embassies are regulated by Thailand's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, whilst Thai Immigration is a division of the Police, hence differences in requirements.
The Non O applied for at a Thai Embassy is a Visa. The 1-year extension is a permit (not a Visa) and grants temporary permission of stay.

Many foreigners intending to retire in Thailand avoid the Non O and Health Insurance requirement by entering Visa exempt or on a Tourist Visa. They then apply for the change in status from 'Tourist' to 'Non Immigrant' obtaining the Non O from their local Immigration office.
The procedure is here VE-TV to Non O Retirement.pdf 

If they request a pension statement (which my IO do every year) when using the income method and due to fluctuations in the exchange rate you fall short then can refuse your extension application. If you're borderline, I recommend the combination method as an alternative. 
According to orders, income is only accepted from pensions, investments and dividends.
The decision is at the discretion of the IO if requested where the income comes from.

Immigration orders are available to download from our forum here > Visas, Long Stay, Extensions, Re-entry Permit - Thaiger Talk (thethaiger.com)  as well as some other sticky topics, that you may, or may not find of interest.

#! I entered Thailand April 16 by air as Visa Exempt  This was my 2nd Visa Exempt entry, the first was late February/early March

#2  FormTM.87and apply to move from Visa Exempt to Non Imm here in Thailand, but this appears to require 800K thb.  No interest in putting 800K in bank.

#3  I should exit and apply regionally for Non o Imm, just to extend at a minimum my stay?  

#4 Combination method - what is the minimum standing deposit and then the monthly deposits to reach, I assume, 800K by end of year?

Edited April 28, 2022 by artisans

[Faz]

2 hours ago, Tod-Daniels said:

Sadly I have never seen nor heard of a single person EVER get a year extension with just a couple monthly income transfers (no matter what the police order states (and I am well aware of how it's written) There is no office in the country that will let it go thru with that few

A person from any country whose consulate does not issue the affidavit of income from abroad letter who wants to use monthly income as the means to get the year extension needs 12 months of the minimum 65K baht a month transfers into the country.

This is from personal experience (going with people who swore that they could do it) AND they were denied the extension until they had 12 months worth   

Interesting Tod.
What then in your opinion does this paragraph mean from this order Amend 138-2557 (2014 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdfand relate to regarding proof of income on the basis of retirement, which was introduced to allow those of US, UK and Australian nations to submit bank transfer as opposed to Embassy income letters.

Quote;
1) Evidence showing pension - a letter of certification on deposit in the bank in Thailand and bank statement showing money transfer from overseas every month for the past 12 months. Except in a case where the applicant's retirement is less than I year, the evidence must be from the month of retirement. For example, the retirement is started in October 2018, the applicant must show pension payment evidence from November 2018 and pension payment evidence of the whole 12 months is required for the next year.

Note, I previously assumed @artisans was in the US, but now realize he is already in Thailand and to late to attempt my suggestion anyway ...... but interested in your opinion on the subject.

[artisans]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

You can only extend 30 days from a VE or TV entry.
You cannot extend your stay from a Non O Visa unless applying for the 1-year extension.
The above based on retirement.

Okay, no extension of  the Non O Imm visa. So by the accounting model I have a 5 months of stay gap to fill, living Thailand, with some method of visa exempts or visas or just not in Thailand before I complete my 12 months of 65K monthly deposits.   (which may or may not match sufficiently my social security converted to THB)   

[Faz]

2 hours ago, artisans said:

Okay, no extension of  the Non O Imm visa. So by the accounting model I have a 5 months of stay gap to fill, living Thailand, with some method of visa exempts or visas or just not in Thailand before I complete my 12 months of 65K monthly deposits.   (which may or may not match sufficiently my social security converted to THB)   

You can see why all your previous research and the advice given pointed to the 800K in the bank method. 

To be honest and frank, in my experience, Immigration do not like the monthly transfer method of providing bank statements as proof of income. In fact, I've witnessed what I'd class as clear discrimination against UK, US and Australian nationals.

If you're borderline and can't guarantee transfers of 65K per month, then your only option is the combination method. As for how much you would need to deposit in funds, that depends on how the IO interprets the orders. @WilliamG has already stated his IO accept 250K funds and 50K monthly transfers, which totals 850K for the year. My own IO refer and interpret the rule as the funds must be 400K.

Your other option of course is to use an agent.

[Tod-Daniels]

9 hours ago, Faz said:

My own IO refer and interpret the rule as the funds must be 400K.

Sorry to hear that is how your immigration office interprets it Faz, it's clearly a "balance cannot go below 50% of the banked money (which is 400K IF you're banking all 800K baht) I know someone here in bangkok who banks 200K baht to make up the shortfall from his monthly transfers and they said he can't go below 100K baht (50% of the banked amount) so at least they're running it like it's written

Sadly I do know of several people (who use b/s immigration offices in other provinces) who were told they couldn't use monthly income via international transfers. They were too afraid to say they wanted to file a written appeal about that decision so just rolled over and banked the money or used an agent 
Sad that people won't stand up for themselves

[Tod-Daniels]

12 hours ago, Faz said:

Interesting Tod.
What then in your opinion does this paragraph mean from this order Amend 138-2557 (2014 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf

 

My opinion of it is that it totally SHOULD be possible to use monthly income method with just a few transfers IF you're getting your first 90 day Non-O based on being over 50 (retirement) and/or the first yearly extension of stay.
BUT
the reality is they won't do it not at all, and having sat with people and watched them be denied at Chaengwattana for both the initial 90 day Non-O and the year extension without a full 12 months of transfers I can only relate what I've personally seen happen 

[Faz]

2 hours ago, Tod-Daniels said:

Sorry to hear that is how your immigration office interprets it Faz, it's clearly a "balance cannot go below 50% of the banked money (which is 400K IF you're banking all 800K baht) I know someone here in bangkok who banks 200K baht to make up the shortfall from his monthly transfers and they said he can't go below 100K baht (50% of the banked amount) so at least they're running it like it's written

If you recall Tod, that order  35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdfwas amended by 'Big Joke' in somewhat of a rush after the 3 Embassies stopped issuing pension income letters and very ambiguously written. For example;
Clause 4;  (Funds). At least 2 months prior to the filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have funds deposited in a Thai bank in Thailand of no less than THB 800K.
The alien can withdraw the fund 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than THB 400K, OR,
Clause 5: (Combination). Must have annual earnings and funds deposited with a commercial bank in Thailand totalling of no less than THB 800K until the filing date. The said funds must remain in the account prior to and after the permission is granted, and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in (4).

Interpretations:
Clause 4, you can withdraw half of the funds 3 months after being granted permission. The remaining balance must be no less than THB 400K.
Clause 5, you can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in (4).

Clear as mud, then!
Would that mean if you held 200K in funds, you could withdraw half after 3 months, as per the same conditions as (4), or the minimum after withdrawal must be 400K. Mileage will vary depending on the IO depending on their interpretation and in certain cases their decisions will be erroneous.

3 hours ago, Tod-Daniels said:

Sadly I do know of several people (who use b/s immigration offices in other provinces) who were told they couldn't use monthly income via international transfers. They were too afraid to say they wanted to file a written appeal about that decision so just rolled over and banked the money or used an agent 
Sad that people won't stand up for themselves

The question here Tod is how many understand the rules sufficiently to know what they are talking about in making any kind of written appeal? 
I have considered at times writing up my own personal experiences and those of others I've witnessed or overhead where the IO was totally incompetent, or looking for a brown envelope to solve an issue that didn't exist in the first place - all because the applicant didn't know the rules.
Just my own opinion, but some IO's will try to take advantage of the mild and meek applicant.

[artisans]

12 hours ago, Faz said:

You can see why all your previous research and the advice given pointed to the 800K in the bank method. 

To be honest and frank, in my experience, Immigration do not like the monthly transfer method of providing bank statements as proof of income. In fact, I've witnessed what I'd class as clear discrimination against UK, US and Australian nationals.

If you're borderline and can't guarantee transfers of 65K per month, then your only option is the combination method. As for how much you would need to deposit in funds, that depends on how the IO interprets the orders. @WilliamG has already stated his IO accept 250K funds and 50K monthly transfers, which totals 850K for the year. My own IO refer and interpret the rule as the funds must be 400K.

Your other option of course is to use an agent.

Thank you Faz, really appreciate the honest and frank!  

Certainly it's a battle to put together a plan for the 65K method that would work.  And now 'mystery revealed' why Thailand lists the 65K method without a single word of guidance on how to achieve it.  What's simpler than dropping 800K thb baht into a Thai bank account without any meticulous tether to pension funds??!  for the IO denial system.  Beyond annoying!

Would appreciate your guidance to a document that details the Combination Method, if it exists.  At least, whether it's 250K or 400K it's not 800K and I could rationalize with my conscience using it.  

Yes, an agent.  Someone dropped a name in the thread early on.  If there are any other names available, please advise.  

After mulling all this over, overnite, I think it's time to make contact with that option and see if my situation and preferences can be 'greased' into place.  The word 'agent' in the forums seems to be a dirty word but if it gets the job done, not a rip off and I can get on with my retirement life in Thailand I might be popping a cork on champagne with an agent.   Cheers!

[Faz]

3 hours ago, Tod-Daniels said:

My opinion of it is that it totally SHOULD be possible to use monthly income method with just a few transfers IF you're getting your first 90 day Non-O based on being over 50 (retirement) and/or the first yearly extension of stay.
BUT
the reality is they won't do it not at all, and having sat with people and watched them be denied at Chaengwattana for both the initial 90 day Non-O and the year extension without a full 12 months of transfers I can only relate what I've personally seen happen 

Sent you a PM Tod.

Generally I agree. The UK, US and Australian nationals are pushed towards the 800K method. Other nationalities, an Embassy pension letter using the income method.
My IO hate the monthly transfer method due to their inability to understand passbook and statement entries. Last year, submitting on behalf of a disabled foreigner, I spent over 3 hours arguing with an IO who kept insisted the applicant didn't meet the 65K monthly overseas transfers, all marked as international and highlighted on a statement.
This inept 'goon' couldn't read (in English) or understand the detailed columns of deposits, withdrawals and balance. He had been viewing and totalling the balance column, and it wasn't until another IO intervened it was cleared up. He found it amusing, but I certainly didn't - incompetent.

[Faz]

14 minutes ago, artisans said:

Would appreciate your guidance to a document that details the Combination Method, if it exists.  At least, whether it's 250K or 400K it's not 800K and I could rationalize with my conscience using it.  

That greatly depends on the Immigration office you'll use, as examples of indifferences in interpretations being detailed in this thread. If you're using CW, Tod may be able to advise on what they accept, as he's had many dealings with them in particular.

Previously at my IO 200K funds deposit and 12 x 50K monthly transfers were acceptable, then we acquired a new Commander with a different interpretation who insists the minimum funds deposit must be 400K using the combination method.

Same written orders, but procedures inconsistent.
The only consistency with Immigration offices is the inconsistency. 

[Tod-Daniels]

HATE to be the bearer of bad news 
BUT
I just had a brit friend at Chaengwattana (section C-1) today who had done more than a year of monthly incoming transfers above the minimum required for the Non-O visa yet who was not able to apply for it.
 
They said he cannot use monthly income method (even if you have 12 months of transfers) to get the in country 90 day Non-O visa issued from them for any reason (retirement, raising half thai children or marriage)

They gave him a sheet that said said you can ONLY use banked money OR for monthly income method an embassy letter (which isn't viable for US, UK, Australia as they don't issue it).  

So Artisans, I'd re-think your "make it thru until you have 12 months of transfers above the minimum" plan.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Tod-Daniels
clarity

[riclag]

30 minutes ago, Tod-Daniels said:

HATE to be the bearer of bad news 
BUT
I just had a brit friend at Chaengwattana (section C-1) today who had done more than a year of monthly incoming transfers above the minimum required for the Non-O visa yet who was not able to apply for it.
 
They said he cannot use monthly income method (even if you have 12 months of transfers) to get the in country 90 day Non-O visa issued from them for any reason (retirement, raising half thai children or marriage)

They gave him a sheet that said said you can ONLY use banked money OR for monthly income method an embassy letter (which isn't viable for US, UK, Australia as they don't issue it).  

So Artisans, I'd re-think your "make it thru until you have 12 months of transfers above the minimum" plan.

Had similar advice from the IO Up here in Issan!  I was coming for years on a MULTI entry  tourist visas and asked him what Was the preferred  financial requirement for a non o based on marriage permission to stay he said 400k in the bank! 
I came back  months later on a Single entry tourist visa went to the usa embassy to get my papers had them translated to Thai and started the process here in Thailand!

[artisans]

1 hour ago, Tod-Daniels said:

HATE to be the bearer of bad news 
BUT
I just had a brit friend at Chaengwattana (section C-1) today who had done more than a year of monthly incoming transfers above the minimum required for the Non-O visa yet who was not able to apply for it.
 
They said he cannot use monthly income method (even if you have 12 months of transfers) to get the in country 90 day Non-O visa issued from them for any reason (retirement, raising half thai children or marriage)

They gave him a sheet that said said you can ONLY use banked money OR for monthly income method an embassy letter (which isn't viable for US, UK, Australia as they don't issue it).  

So Artisans, I'd re-think your "make it thru until you have 12 months of transfers above the minimum" plan.

How is life in Cambodia?  Is this some a.......e making it up in the moment?  Between your observations and those of Faz they just don't seem to be able to crucify this 65K option enough.

So this was applying to get Non O in country right?  What if applying from out of country?

Translation of 'banked money'?  Is it the full kick in the nuts of 800K  or can it be interpreted as the combined method?  If Combined Method applies, so far between you and Faz  it's not clear what the standing balance and monthly has to be.  I am going to IO Changwattana on Monday to extend my Visa Exempt and ask questions. Let's see what comes.

And last, is this 'sheet' or it's purpose something that an 'agent' could or might be able to overcome through whatever means they use?

Edited April 29, 2022 by artisans
missed a thought.

[longwood50]

I use the 65k method.  I was "lucky" in that I got my non-o visa before the U.S. embassy stopped issuing income verification affidavits.  

I "think" your only option would be to go either deposit the 800,000 baht and let it age or go to an agent who makes arrangement for you.  

You could then start to make your 65k deposits into Thailand and you will have 1 year worth of history when your first visa expires.  You will obviously need a bank account which is a chicken and egg problem.  Many banks won't open and account for you without a visa and you can't get the visa without the bank account.  I finally was able to open one at Bangkok Bank but had to buy a 1 year insurance policy to do so. 

I use a US bank to deposit my social security into.  I then transfer the money to Transferwise. I have a dual currency account.  USD and baht.  I set a exchange limit price and when the baht to USD hits that price it automatically converts it.  I then transfer the amount to Bangkok bank.  You MUST list the transfer reason as "long term stay" in Thailand to have it properly coded as a foreign transfer.  

At the end of the year you have to go to the bank.  It takes 1 week to process.  They type of a letter verifying the bank account, and listing each of the montly transfers.  You also need to get a 1  year bank statement which is why it takes 1 week because for some unexplained reason they can't print statements in the bank offices only in Bangkok.   You make a copy of all of your pages of your bank book, along with the original bank statement and original letter from the bank and take along with all the other paperwork to immigration for your renewal. 

I have now renewed 3 times in Chonburi and no problems. 

I would use the transferwise versus having the money direct deposited into Thailand.  You would be taking a chance that the coding of those shows they are foreign.  Also you are at the mercy of whatever exchange rate the bank decides to give you and of course you can not control the date that your pension gets transferred to the Thai bank. 

 

[Faz]

18 hours ago, Tod-Daniels said:

They said he cannot use monthly income method (even if you have 12 months of transfers) to get the in country 90 day Non-O visa issued from them for any reason (retirement, raising half thai children or marriage)

They gave him a sheet that said said you can ONLY use banked money OR for monthly income method an embassy letter (which isn't viable for US, UK, Australia as they don't issue it).  

I'd have questioned that, because the IO was wrong!
I'd love to see the 'sheet' they gave him stating only 800K or an Embassy letter as proof of income was acceptable. The official procedure and requirements for the Non O are listed in Immigrations downloadable document; VE-TV to Non O Retirement.pdf 

5.1 A letter of guarantee from the bank in Thailand in Thai language (Attention: Immigration Commissioner) 5.2 Copy of all entries of the applicant’s passbook showing that the applicant has a savings or fixed deposit account of not less than Baht 800,000 (all documents must be in the Applicant’s name)
5.3 Evidence of foreign currency fund transferred to Thailand
**(Documents under 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3 must be issued and updated to be the same date of the Application and all documents must be in the Applicant’s name.)

OR

A letter of guarantee from the local or overseas Embassy or Consulate that proving the monthly pension of the Applicant not less than Baht 65,000 per month (together with reference documents showing the source of monthly pension)

OR

Evidence of deposited money under Clause 5 and evidence of income under Clause 6 (for one year) showing the total amount not less than Baht 800,000

That clearly demonstrates both overseas transfers and a combination of funds and transfers are permitted for the Non O. As I previously stated before, this is clear discrimination shown to UK, Aus, and US citizens, due to the fact our Embassies withdrew their income letters.

The point being how far does an individual want to take and argue the issue and would they have the confidence to do so.

[M.O.]

With regards to the 65k method, how long do the funds transferred in from abroad need to stay in the bank account? My impression, which may be totally wrong, is that you can use the funds immediately... This seems to be a way to avoid parking a large sum in a Thai bank account as is required for the 800k method.

[Faz]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:26 PM, M.O. said:

With regards to the 65k method, how long do the funds transferred in from abroad need to stay in the bank account? My impression, which may be totally wrong, is that you can use the funds immediately... This seems to be a way to avoid parking a large sum in a Thai bank account as is required for the 800k method.

You can immediately use the 65K income.
There is no seasoning period, just the record of monthly transfers.