Retirement Visa by the 65K method

[artisans]

Thank you all, and especially Faz, for the making the generous replies.  I am feeling well schooled now on the uncertainties I arrived to this thread with. Just to note, I have been fortunate to keep my Citibank TH Gold savings account open while away, and it's running nicely still. Back in the day it only required a letter from my US Citibank to open the account here.  So ready to test the waters of 65K thb / month deposits method for a year.  To be done in parallel with staying in country by various methods and extensions,  until ready to engage the Non Imm visa  and apply the retirement visa with my year of deposit records.  Pray meanwhile the  methods of in and out of the country get easier, which it's sounding like they will in the coming year. 

[HolyCowCm]

5 minutes ago, Faz said:

The OP hasn't stated which Visa type he would prefer to enter Thailand, but yes, the mandatory Health Insurance still applies to the O-A Visa and annual extensions from entry of that Visa type.

It quite often applies for the Non O Visa application, but not for annual extensions from that entry type.

Have not heard of the Non O being subjected to it. Is this something new and of the same insurance criteria as the Non OA? Not that I worry as for now am ok and my Non O is just an ongoing renewal going back decades now but just curious to hear and what countries are enforcing it..

[artisans]

10 minutes ago, Faz said:

The OP hasn't stated which Visa type he would prefer to enter Thailand, but yes, the mandatory Health Insurance still applies to the O-A Visa and annual extensions from entry of that Visa type.

It quite often applies for the Non O Visa application, but not for annual extensions from that entry type.

Regards Health Insurance, if there's a retirement visa option that doesn't require it I would prefer that one.  As a run up to that time, as  I understand it,  there are entry options during the year before applying for retirement visa by 65K, that it's possible to enter / be in Thailand without insurance . On the other hand I'm researching Health Insurance with a company now that insures up to 75 years old and will maintain you after 75 if you're pre-enrolled.  In the case that I'll need health insurance to acquire the retirement visa.  

[oldschooler]

54 minutes ago, Faz said:

The OP already stated his US Embassy ceased issuing Income letters, as did the UK and Australian Embassies at the end of 2018.

Where does OP say that ? 

[Faz]

 

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Where does OP say that ? 

On 4/26/2022 at 12:09 PM, artisans said:

in the now distant past I lived Thailand with a retirement visa when my US embassy provided a simple verification of monthly income that satisfied Thai Immigration.

 

[Faz]

6 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Have not heard of the Non O being subjected to it. Is this something new and of the same insurance criteria as the Non OA?

Applying for a Non Imm O Visa from a Thai Embassy, the same Health Insurance as for the Non O-A (but only for 90 days) has been required for some time now.
https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/84508-non-immigrant-visas?page=5d6636cd15e39c3bd00072dd&menu=5f4b6eb3f6ae4b236972c562

Non-Immigrant Type O (Retirement (pensioner aged 50 or above with a state pension who wants to stay in Thailand for no longer than 90 days) - single entry only)

• Financial evidence e.g. A copy of pension statement if the applicant is a pensioner, or a copy of 1-month bank statement showing your income from pension, or 3-month bank statement of at least £10,000
• Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland. Copy of health insurance that covers COVID-19 related medical expenses, both inpatient and outpatient, no less than 100,000 USD for the whole period of your stay in Thailand.

6 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Not that I worry as for now am ok and my Non O is just an ongoing renewal going back decades now but just curious to hear and what countries are enforcing it..

You're not renewing your Non O, that expired a long time ago. You extend your temporary stay from that granted on arrival, a permit.

[Faz]

6 hours ago, artisans said:

Regards Health Insurance, if there's a retirement visa option that doesn't require it I would prefer that one.  As a run up to that time, as  I understand it,  there are entry options during the year before applying for retirement visa by 65K, that it's possible to enter / be in Thailand without insurance . On the other hand I'm researching Health Insurance with a company now that insures up to 75 years old and will maintain you after 75 if you're pre-enrolled.  In the case that I'll need health insurance to acquire the retirement visa.  

Using the 65K income method, you'll have to obtain a Non Imm O Visa from a Thai Embassy, before you can apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on retirement. You cannot apply to change your status from Tourist to Non Immigrant at a local Immigration office. That is only possible if you had 800K in a Thai bank account.

[artisans]

6 minutes ago, Faz said:

Using the 65K income method, you'll have to obtain a Non Imm O Visa from a Thai Embassy, before you can apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on retirement. You cannot apply to change your status from Tourist to Non Immigrant at a local Immigration office. That is only possible if you had 800K in a Thai bank account.

Thanks for clarifying, a Non Imm O Visa from a Thai Embassy is required before applying 1 yr extension of stay based on retirement.

Two questions more:  I've read statements saying you need to apply at a 'Thai Embassy in your country'. Is that really necessary to return to my country, USA, or can it more simply be done at  a Thai Embassy here in the region - Vietnam, for example?  And, is Medical Insurance required for getting the Non Imm O visa;  and/or is Med. Insurance required when applying the 1 year extension of stay based on retirement?

[Thaidup]

10 minutes ago, artisans said:

Thanks for clarifying, a Non Imm O Visa from a Thai Embassy is required before applying 1 yr extension of stay based on retirement.

Please forgive me if I am muddying up the waters here, but can't you only apply for a non imm OA visa from outside of Thailand? My understanding is that  non imm O and a non imm OA have different requirements regarding health insurance etc.

[Thaidup]

20 minutes ago, artisans said:

Two questions more:  I've read statements saying you need to apply at a 'Thai Embassy in your country'. Is that really necessary to return to my country, USA, or can it more simply be done at  a Thai Embassy here in the region - Vietnam, for example?  And, is Medical Insurance required for getting the Non Imm O visa;  and/or is Med. Insurance required when applying the 1 year extension of stay based on retirement?

What this all boils down to is what are your intentions? If you are going to lie to the immigration about your intentions then it will end up biting you in the butt. Be honest and work out your finances to see if you will qualify to emigrate, Do not lie or make up your income to satisfy the requirements, you will get caught and then be expelled.with a no re-entry for up to life, Just be honest and realize if you can or can not retire now, give it a few more years and be more sure of your financial position and then be confident in a visa application.

[Faz]

48 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

Please forgive me if I am muddying up the waters here, but can't you only apply for a non imm OA visa from outside of Thailand? My understanding is that  non imm O and a non imm OA have different requirements regarding health insurance etc.

Only the Non O has been mentioned by the OP.
But you are correct, the Non Imm O-A Visa can only be applied from your home Country or where you have residency status. The Non O can be applied for at certain Thai Embassies and at local Immigration offices, subject to having 800K in a Thai bank, but the OP is using income.

[artisans]

28 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

What this all boils down to is what are your intentions? If you are going to lie to the immigration about your intentions then it will end up biting you in the butt. Be honest and work out your finances to see if you will qualify to emigrate, Do not lie or make up your income to satisfy the requirements, you will get caught and then be expelled.with a no re-entry for up to life, Just be honest and realize if you can or can not retire now, give it a few more years and be more sure of your financial position and then be confident in a visa application.

Really? my intentions are pretty clear if you've read this thread!  Gather information and understanding how this works to optimize success and avoid pitfalls..  You've contributed nothing to either imho, so thanks, can get along without the scold,  insinuations of something inappropriate and the obvious.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

 

Right but doesn’t say or even imply that arrangement ended. Never mind.  

[Faz]

59 minutes ago, artisans said:

Two questions more:  I've read statements saying you need to apply at a 'Thai Embassy in your country'. Is that really necessary to return to my country, USA, 

That only applies for a Non Imm O-A Visa application.

1 hour ago, artisans said:

or can it more simply be done at  a Thai Embassy here in the region - Vietnam, for example?  

It can at limited local Thai Embassies, but the requirements can differ. Check out the local Thai Embassy websites yourself.

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia; Non O - Microsoft Word - services-20120618-133021-759169.doc (mfa.go.th)
Difficult to check at the moment as some are still updating and others still closed.

[Faz]

9 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Right but doesn’t say or even imply that arrangement ended. Never mind.  

Clear enough for me to understand his intentions and questions.

[Thaidup]

12 minutes ago, artisans said:

Really? my intentions are pretty clear if you've read this thread!  Gather information and understanding how this works to optimize success and avoid pitfalls..  You've contributed nothing to either imho, so thanks, can get along without the scold,  insinuations of something inappropriate and the obvious.

If you would like an indepth and full discussion on how I obtained a Non Imm O visa for marriage and then converted to Non Imm O retirement, feel free to private message me,I will give you my phone number and we can talk about all the pitfalls of doing either, Sorry I came across as non contributing, It's just the way I am

[oldschooler]

5 minutes ago, Faz said:

Clear enough for me to understand his intentions and questions.

Only because you already knew that particular arrangement had ended !

 

[HolyCowCm]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

Applying for a Non Imm O Visa from a Thai Embassy, the same Health Insurance as for the Non O-A (but only for 90 days) has been required for some time now.
https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/84508-non-immigrant-visas?page=5d6636cd15e39c3bd00072dd&menu=5f4b6eb3f6ae4b236972c562

Non-Immigrant Type O (Retirement (pensioner aged 50 or above with a state pension who wants to stay in Thailand for no longer than 90 days) - single entry only)

• Financial evidence e.g. A copy of pension statement if the applicant is a pensioner, or a copy of 1-month bank statement showing your income from pension, or 3-month bank statement of at least £10,000
• Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland. Copy of health insurance that covers COVID-19 related medical expenses, both inpatient and outpatient, no less than 100,000 USD for the whole period of your stay in Thailand.

You're not renewing your Non O, that expired a long time ago. You extend your temporary stay from that granted on arrival, a permit.

Yeah thanks Faz for the pointing out of that. I do know that sometimes I will purposely use the wrong supposed fact terminogy, but my mind sees it that way as I am based on my Non O regardless of anything else. At the beginning of my old passports and even the last new one, it always on the first stampable page will state the NON O from the origianl date it was originally aquired and approved as set into action. Every change over of status on my passports and this has been over 3 of them so far.

It is their requirement that they stamp detaoils as put the original Visa and its' date so it shows transparency and traceability of what it is or was really coming from what. As of my next renewal later this year, the IO gal said and specifically pointed out to tell me and my wife that I/we will have to change the dependant care from my kids to my wife as my kids are at that point of the last one being my daughter is now 19 yrs old in March 2022. Well this is about a year off as infact is incorrect but who cares as long as I have zero problems. My next renewal is in September 2022 here in CM.

So one of the Immigration byline law states at 20 years old for a kid, but also in reality it is reliant on the kid still being in school as University which takes it past 20 and 21 to graduation if the kid is still in Univertsity. Correct? 22yrs is the grey area for who knows waht the line is if trying to go by the book. Real should be after the kid gets past the 4 years of Uni and then out.

But again it is their interpretation of what they think and as long as it does not pose a problem to me ( and my wife) then I always will side and try to go with their personal flow as it is never a good thing to buck their systmatic thinking unless it is totally off and kilter tilter.. 

So, The IO will always write the original visa of mine which is a NON O for me, and then looks at the rules that it encompasses. So, what she was telling us this time, and we never ever saw this 30yr oldish IO woman before, My "NON O" of being under the family thing of taking care of my 2 kids will now be a NON O coverting to the taking care of my wife. Not a marriage NON O. So the criteria is still based on my NON O Family regardless of how anyone wants to say it is not a NON O as that NON O expired and is only a renewal for the purpose of staying here. Could you please expand on that? It is a NON O that is renewed to stay here, and so is based on the orignal NON O visa and remains under the criteria of that NON O.

So I will say again it is an extensio nstill based on the visa of NON O criteria and nothing else. So for me I stiull like to say it is my NON O visa which I get my renewal on and they actually look at it he same way. can we say out NON O visa is extended and renewed for an additonal 1 yr extension? Extension is defined as what?

So yea, I understand what they or whomever are saying as well as yourself, but for me I don't buy and totally think that way, but yes I do understand what is being said and cn converse this way if needed. This topic would be interesting if ever taking to trial in a real court.

 

ex·ten·sion

1. -a part that is added to something to enlarge or prolong it; a continuation.

    

   Thanks and i am just trying to state it from another poiint of view.

    

   Cheers and thanks to you FAZ! You are doing a really fine superb job of helping everyone who needs it. TT is lucky to have you!

 

[Faz]

19 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Right but doesn’t say or even imply that arrangement ended. Never mind.  

If you weren't aware the UK, US and Australia stopped issuing Income pension letters at the end of 2018, you need to read the Immigration news more often.

[Faz]

36 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

ex·ten·sion

1. -a part that is added to something to enlarge or prolong it; a continuation.

Correct, but it's not the Visa you're prolonging, that has an expiry date.
It's your permission of stay granted on entry that you extend.

 

7. Please note that the period of visa validity is different from the period of stay.  Visa validity is the period during which a visa can be used to enter Thailand.  In general, the validity of a visa is 3 months, but in some cases, visas may be issued to be valid for 6 months, 1 year or 3 years.  The validity of a visa is granted with discretion by the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General and is displayed on the visa sticker. 

8. On the other hand, the period of stay is granted by an immigration officer upon arrival at the port of entry and in accordance with the type of visa.  For example, the period of stay for a transit visa is not exceeding 30 days, for a tourist visa is not exceeding 60 days and for a non-immigrant visa is not exceeding 90 days from the arrival date.  The period of stay granted by the immigration officer is displayed on the arrival stamp.  Travellers who wish to stay longer than such period may apply for extension of stay at offices of the Immigration Bureau 
General information - กระทรวงการต่างประเทศ (mfa.go.th)

 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

If you weren't aware the UK, US and Australia stopped issuing Income pension letters at the end of 2018, you need to read the Immigration news more often.

Thanks Faz. I see this is where even our Embassies tired of the unending unreal Immigration demands here.

Always handled all my Thai govt. business directly EXCEPT for in- country Longstay Visa / POS, where, objecting in principle to the Financials, and wishing to sidestep any potential for being messed around, I have /would always used an Agent.  
 

I HAVE been massively messed around by Municipal for my two HouseBooks where no Agent expressed interest, but yes off topic and another story. 

[Thaidup]

Next question may be, how long will this 65K or 800k last, with the latest inflation and the 2 sums not having changed for 20 years and more, just get ready for maybe 85k and 1.M or more. Just a thought, but are you prepared if it goes up?

[HolyCowCm]

3 hours ago, Faz said:

Correct, but it's not the Visa you're prolonging, that has an expiry date.
It's your permission of stay granted on entry that you extend.

7. Please note that the period of visa validity is different from the period of stay.  Visa validity is the period during which a visa can be used to enter Thailand.  In general, the validity of a visa is 3 months, but in some cases, visas may be issued to be valid for 6 months, 1 year or 3 years.  The validity of a visa is granted with discretion by the Royal Thai Embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General and is displayed on the visa sticker. 

8. On the other hand, the period of stay is granted by an immigration officer upon arrival at the port of entry and in accordance with the type of visa.  For example, the period of stay for a transit visa is not exceeding 30 days, for a tourist visa is not exceeding 60 days and for a non-immigrant visa is not exceeding 90 days from the arrival date.  The period of stay granted by the immigration officer is displayed on the arrival stamp.  Travellers who wish to stay longer than such period may apply for extension of stay at offices of the Immigration Bureau 
General information - กระทรวงการต่างประเทศ (mfa.go.th)

Yeah but it still remains based on the original Visa ( if we have one) it is under and that is still a visa, if we were allowed in that way. They can twist the wording anyway they want under the guise of purpose of saying extension, but it still remains that it is all about the extension of the visa we originally came here and were allowed to enter and stay on, and that goes back and is only based to the Visa for the reason allaowed. For CM now and never was before if my brains cells are still intact, every 90 day report to check in they have me filling out a 90 day extension to stay based on my visa, the NON O. So now it is not just a mere' check in saying hello, I am here and I still stay at the same place. So it ticked me off as it was twisted in to filling out an extension form when they down right know it is only a report of check in and should be nothing more than that. although, he, the IO guy at CM drive up window smiles and is nice, but it is or seems out of context now. My one year is not a mutliple and never has been. BTW. How does the online 90 day check in do it?

Anyway it is peculiar and in the end they can call it whatever they and make me do what ever they want as long a I am cleared to stay for the entire year which is for my NON O.

Getting late, and nice to chat bak and forth with you on this, and now one more cold beer on this hot night and it is hit the hay. In the end you really do a great job helping out all of us foreigners with your knowledge and this is a great thing you and TT do for all of us. I for one appreciate it very much.

Cheers.

 

[Tod-Daniels]

"Artisans" you got good (in fact GREAT) advice from Faz. The answers were spot on (despite the other wing-nuts weighing in with their 2 satang of misinformation) 
As far as using a Citibank account for either banked money or monthly income method to show proof of funds that will be a tough undertaking.
First off they do not have passbooks <- meaning you need to go TO a Citibank the day you will file your application to get the detail transaction history print out dated that day so you can show the bank balance on the day you apply.
There are just a few citibanx in Bangkok meaning you're going to wait for one to open, GO there, get the paperwork from them, THEN slog on out to Chaengwattana to apply for the yearly extension.
You're way better using a bank that has multiple offices and that you can access out at Chaengwattana IF you are a document short.
Also as was pointed out, you cannot use the monthly income method to get the initial 90 day Non-O visa inside the country because you need 12 months of previous transfers of 65K baht a month seeing as your embassy doesn't issue the income affidavit.
I'd say until you have a year of monthly transfers (that are coded as originating from overseas not domestic transfers) you need to find an alternate way to stay, (tourist visa, METV, STV, ED visa) something to buy you the time until you hit 12 months of transfers. 
Just wanted to say Faz, really REALLY sound advice. Keep up the great work   

[Faz]

@artisans

There is a further option open to you if your intention is firmly to retire in Thailand.

You can now obtain the Non O Visa from the USA for the purpose of retirement in Thailand.
https://thaiembdc.org/2020/09/30/nonimmigrantoaox/
Full requirements listed here; https://thaiembdc.org/2020/11/17/nonoretirement/

(Although it requires the compulsory Health Insurance requirement for the Non O application, it is not required when submitting applications for extensions of stay at local Thai Immigration offices.)

If you obtain and enter Thailand with a Non O Visa, on entry you'll be granted a stay of 90 days.
If you make 2 monthly overseas transfers of 65K, you should be able to apply for a 1-year extension thereafter.

I refer to Immigrations order No. 0029.l73/Wor 4950 Date: 21 December2018 Subject: Supporting evidence of income for visa extension in case of family members and retirement.
This was a clarification of acceptable supporting income for those whose Embassies ceased the Pension Income support letters, under order 138/2557.
Amend 138-2557 (2014) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 
Scroll down to section 2.22 (retirement) and I draw your attention to this statement.
 

Quote

Except in a case where the applicant's retirement is less than I year, the evidence must be from the month of retirement. For example, the retirement is started in October 2018, the applicant must show pension payment evidence from November 2018 and pension payment evidence of the whole 12 months is required for the next year

What this essentially means is that if you've just retired and applying for your first extension of stay, you aren't required to provide evidence of 12 months overseas transfers until the following year.

Under the older requirements it was either 800K in a Thai bank for 90 days for extension applications, or an Embassy Income letter, with the exception of the very first extension application, which only required the 800K to be seasoned for 60 days, or an Embassy income letter after 60 days.
Proof of a pension statement meeting the requirement will undoubtably be requested.

An alternative option for you to consider.