Retirement Visa by the 65K method

[artisans]

As a new member to the Thaiger forum I'm looking forward to being part of this great looking website and commentaries.

in the now distant past I lived Thailand with a retirement visa when my US embassy provided a simple verification of monthly income that satisfied Thai Immigration. On returning to Thailand and looking to qualify for the retirement visa again, avoiding the 800K deposited in the bank method and instead pursue getting there gradually with monthly 65K or more transfers from the US depositing to my existing Citibank Thailand account. Recognizing that this method requires a 1 year history of the monthly 65K deposits, I plan to stay Thailand during that year's time using visa Exempt and other longer term visas to meet the requirements to stay Thailand.  

I would appreciate experienced advice on the financial side of the 65K method. As many times as I've looked for advice on this singular 65K  approach, the available information keeps, in my opinion, getting wrapped up with 800K thb language and requirements.

Is there distinct advice on just the monthly 65K method, guidelines on month to month until you reach 1 full year of deposits?                                Apart from advice that the monthly deposits can be used freely without penalty, it's not clear whether one needs to or it's helpful to build up  a greater balance, short term or long term; whether if you do have a stationary amount deposited, say 65K,  that subsequent monthly deposits continue to need to be the 65K per month or they can be combined with a stable balance to require less monthly.  Also, speaking with one agent, I was advised that my  bank account could not be Citibank for the Immigration agent they worked with - had to be one of the national banks. I guess because they have a 'bank book'?   Is that generally true?

Thanks in advance on advice that clears up the quandaries.

[Pinetree]

To be honest, in your situation, I would borrow the 800K, deposit it and they pay it back gradually. You might find that approach a lot easier. Some IOs just do not like the monthly 65K method and will do anything to screw you about.  Alternatively, get an agent here who can navigate it all for you, for around 15K.  PM me if you decide on this route and need a heads up on who can help.  

[WilliamG]

Or move up to my neck of the woods, Phitsanulok, where my friendly IO accepts 50k per month = 600k, plus 200k in the bank.

[artisans]

19 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

To be honest, in your situation, I would borrow the 800K, deposit it and they pay it back gradually. You might find that approach a lot easier. Some IOs just do not like the monthly 65K method and will do anything to screw you about.  Alternatively, get an agent here who can navigate it all for you, for around 15K.  PM me if you decide on this route and need a heads up on who can help.  

I tried to be really clear. Exasperating, as I can't remember how many times now someone has deflected to the 800K solution.  Came here to Thaiger thinking someone could speak up.  What's so hard about addressing doing the 65K method, clarifying the ups the downs, the details,  whatever?  If anyone knows, no one seems to be able to speak the simple truth.    Good to know the cost of an agent.  Feel free to drop one here.  No need to be clandestine.

[artisans]

20 minutes ago, WilliamG said:

Or move up to my neck of the woods, Phitsanulok, where my friendly IO accepts 50k per month = 600k, plus 200k in the bank.

Okay, so this looks to address the question about bank balance and monthly deposits.  Perhaps you could share that came about with your IO.  How were the amounts decided and how communicated to you?

Edited April 26, 2022 by artisans
sentence error

[Ben_Tallchief]

Two words. Key Visa.

[WilliamG]

45 minutes ago, artisans said:

Okay, so this looks to address the question about bank balance and monthly deposits.  Perhaps you could share that came about with your IO.  How were the amounts decided and how communicated to you?

It's called the Combination Method and is quite legal. As long as the monthly deposits plus the cash in the bank add up to over 800k, then it should be accepted. I asked my IO about it three years ago and am still doing it. Bank statements showing the monthly Wise transfers to Bkk Bank, as FTTs, and confirmation of the deposit account.

I don't understand your headline quoting 85k.

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, artisans said:

I tried to be really clear. Exasperating, as I can't remember how many times now someone has deflected to the 800K solution.  Came here to Thaiger thinking someone could speak up.  What's so hard about addressing doing the 65K method, clarifying the ups the downs, the details,  whatever?  If anyone knows, no one seems to be able to speak the simple truth.    Good to know the cost of an agent.  Feel free to drop one here.  No need to be clandestine.

You don't deserve advice of you are going to dismiss it out of hand in  that derogatory manner.  The reason that people keep bringing it up is because its relevant to you and your situation .  Do what you like mate and find your own agent.  

[Faz]

4 hours ago, artisans said:

Okay, so this looks to address the question about bank balance and monthly deposits.  Perhaps you could share that came about with your IO.  How were the amounts decided and how communicated to you?

The financial requirements are detailed in Immigrations orders.
For the purpose of obtaining 1-year extensions of stay based on retirement, there are 4 options.
1. 800K in a Thai bank account.
2. An Embassy income letter.
3. Monthly overseas transfers of 65K THB per month.
4. Combination of funds deposited in a Thai bank + monthly overseas transfers totalling min of 800K THB for the year.

Section 2.22 of Immigration orders cover the requirements based on retirement.
The original orders 327-2557 (2014) - Criteria for extension ENG.pdf dated 2014, were amended when certain Embassies stopped issuing  income letters.
The updated order 35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf revising clause 2.22 is dated 2019 and allows for bank statements/passbooks to be used for those unable to obtain an Embassy income letter.

Note, your account must be with a Thai commercial bank.
I strongly recommend Bangkok Bank if you're contemplating overseas transfers.

[Faz]

2 hours ago, WilliamG said:

I don't understand your headline quoting 85k.

Typo, changed to 65K.

[HolyCowCm]

It might also be different places for immigration offices here have their own requirements (right or wrong) even if there is a set official immigration criteria. Where are you thinking of moving back to might help some answers coming back your way as well. Now if it is just going by the standard rules then it would figure 65k per month every month would be it as long as you are in time and within that month. If the transfer to a bank here by chance falls 1 day late being in the next month then you might just have a problem, depending again on what IO you get or what office it is at. 

[artisans]

7 hours ago, Faz said:

The financial requirements are detailed in Immigrations orders.
For the purpose of obtaining 1-year extensions of stay based on retirement, there are 4 options.
1. 800K in a Thai bank account.
2. An Embassy income letter.
3. Monthly overseas transfers of 65K THB per month.
4. Combination of funds deposited in a Thai bank + monthly overseas transfers totalling min of 800K THB for the year.

Section 2.22 of Immigration orders cover the requirements based on retirement.
The original orders 327-2557 (2014) - Criteria for extension ENG.pdf dated 2014, were amended when certain Embassies stopped issuing  income letters.
The updated order 35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf revising clause 2.22 is dated 2019 and allows for bank statements/passbooks to be used for those unable to obtain an Embassy income letter.

Note, your account must be with a Thai commercial bank.
I strongly recommend Bangkok Bank if you're contemplating overseas transfers.

Thank you Faz for simply clarifying the details and the updated immigration order download.  

Questions on using Option 3 - Monthly overseas transfers of 65K THB per month

#1- 65K/month x 12 and you fully meet the requirement, correct?  Can one assume it's not important that the year's total, 12 x 65K, would equal 780,000 thb not 800,000? Those monthly 65K transfers can be used/spent and are not required to be retained in the account?     

#2 - Regards the definition of a Thai Commercial bank - Is Citibank Thailand the definition of a Thai Commercial bank?  My Citi TH account here is around 10 years old.  (I bank with Citibank in the US and making the monthly  transfers to Citibank Thailand is easy and free of transfer charges.)  U$ transfer from US appears in account as THB when transfer arrives to the Citibank Thailand account.  

#3 - Bank statements versus Passbooks:  Citibank produces monthly statements and provides a Bank Letter.  There is no passbook.   Is that an issue/problem?

Note:  Years ago Immigration was accepting Citibank Thailand, statements and bank letter when the US Embassy stopped issuing income statements

[artisans]

11 hours ago, WilliamG said:

It's called the Combination Method and is quite legal. As long as the monthly deposits plus the cash in the bank add up to over 800k, then it should be accepted. I asked my IO about it three years ago and am still doing it. Bank statements showing the monthly Wise transfers to Bkk Bank, as FTTs, and confirmation of the deposit account.

I don't understand your headline quoting 85k.

Thank you WillamG.  Apologies 65K is correct and Faz made the typo correction to the Title.  Thanks Faz.

Regards the Combination Method, is this correct? you just need to be able to show a total of 800K deposited and not necessarily retained at the end of 1 year?  The monthly deposits can be any amount just as long as you make monthly deposits, and totaling 800K or more in the year?  Or is there some monthly minimum required?  Is there no need for proving your monthly income/pension/social security amount?

[artisans]

6 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

It might also be different places for immigration offices here have their own requirements (right or wrong) even if there is a set official immigration criteria. Where are you thinking of moving back to might help some answers coming back your way as well. Now if it is just going by the standard rules then it would figure 65k per month every month would be it as long as you are in time and within that month. If the transfer to a bank here by chance falls 1 day late being in the next month then you might just have a problem, depending again on what IO you get or what office it is at. 

I have read that "your mileage may vary.." in different Immigration offices. Thanks for mentioning it.  I am moving back to Bangkok. Yes, planning to make the monthly transfers of 65K, and in plenty of time, say mid-month so there's no doubt it's posted monthly.  

Question regards the Immigration Officers, is it possible to establish a connect with one individual that you can work with each time?  My recollections of the past are that you just met with whoever when your number is called. I always went  Changwhattana offices in the past, now over 3 years ago.

[WilliamG]

4 hours ago, artisans said:

Thank you WillamG.  Apologies 65K is correct and Faz made the typo correction to the Title.  Thanks Faz.

Regards the Combination Method, is this correct? you just need to be able to show a total of 800K deposited and not necessarily retained at the end of 1 year?  The monthly deposits can be any amount just as long as you make monthly deposits, and totaling 800K or more in the year?  Or is there some monthly minimum required?  Is there no need for proving your monthly income/pension/social security amount?

I really do not know the answer as I religiously transfer 50k via Wise in the first week of every month, and have 250k in a deposit account which is never touched, and I have had no problems for 3 years.

For the 'normal' monthly version, it should be the same amount (65k) every month and NOT the average over the year, although I think the law says a minimum of 65k so you could send more if you needed to.

[artisans]

14 hours ago, Pinetree said:

You don't deserve advice of you are going to dismiss it out of hand in  that derogatory manner.  The reason that people keep bringing it up is because its relevant to you and your situation .  Do what you like mate and find your own agent.  

Apologies that you're offended and took my reply personally.  You were the first to reply and received the brunt I suppose of my long frustrations at not finding relevant answers to my search in other venues and forums, only to see the 800K again.  Peace and have moved on, thanks for any understanding.

[artisans]

3 minutes ago, WilliamG said:

I really do not know the answer as I religiously transfer 50k via Wise in the first week of every month, and have 250k in a deposit account which is never touched, and I have had no problems for 3 years.

For the 'normal' monthly version, it should be the same amount (65k) every month and NOT the average over the year, although I think the law says a minimum of 65k so you could send more if you needed to.

Thank you and very welcome the perspective.  Aim high and stay out of troubled waters, a good practice to follow.  As success seems in part to depend on an approving Immigration officer of your strategy - do you have one that you see or is it random?  Would you speculate on whether officers at Changwhattana are receptive / approving  / supportive  or not?

[WilliamG]

3 minutes ago, artisans said:

Thank you and very welcome the perspective.  Aim high and stay out of troubled waters, a good practice to follow.  As success seems in part to depend on an approving Immigration officer of your strategy - do you have one that you see or is it random?  Would you speculate on whether officers at Changwhattana are receptive / approving  / supportive  or not?

No idea about CW, as I said earlier I am in Phitsanulok where there are just the Head Man, and two others. They all know me as I see them 4 x 90 days plus my Extension visit..

[Faz]

7 hours ago, artisans said:

#1- 65K/month x 12 and you fully meet the requirement, correct?  Can one assume it's not important that the year's total, 12 x 65K, would equal 780,000 thb not 800,000? Those monthly 65K transfers can be used/spent and are not required to be retained in the account?  

Correct, the amount of 780K per annum through purely overseas transfers is acceptable. You can immediately spend those transfers.

7 hours ago, artisans said:

#2 - Regards the definition of a Thai Commercial bank - Is Citibank Thailand the definition of a Thai Commercial bank?  My Citi TH account here is around 10 years old.  (I bank with Citibank in the US and making the monthly  transfers to Citibank Thailand is easy and free of transfer charges.)  U$ transfer from US appears in account as THB when transfer arrives to the Citibank Thailand account.  

Citibank is classed as an investment bank in Thailand, however it has been accepted by Immigration dependent on the account type. Savings, fixed term and foreign currency accounts are the only account types accepted by Immigration. It's my understanding opening a 'Savings' account the minimum deposit is 1M baht. normal-savings-account.pdf (citibank.co.th)

7 hours ago, artisans said:

#3 - Bank statements versus Passbooks:  Citibank produces monthly statements and provides a Bank Letter.  There is no passbook.   Is that an issue/problem?

No.

 

[Faz]

7 hours ago, artisans said:

Question regards the Immigration Officers, is it possible to establish a connect with one individual that you can work with each time?

No.

[Faz]

7 hours ago, artisans said:

Regards the Combination Method, is this correct? you just need to be able to show a total of 800K deposited and not necessarily retained at the end of 1 year?  The monthly deposits can be any amount just as long as you make monthly deposits, and totaling 800K or more in the year?  Or is there some monthly minimum required?  Is there no need for proving your monthly income/pension/social security amount?

In indifference to @WilliamG report of what his IO will accept as a 'funds' deposit (250K) applying using the combination method, My own IO insist on a minimum deposit of 400K funds, which is their interpretation of order 35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf 

Criteria (5).  The said funds must remain in the account prior to and after the permission of stay is granted, and the alien can make a withdrawal under the same conditions as stated in (4).
Criteria (4) states; The alien can withdraw the funds 3 months after being granted permission and the remaining balance must be no less than 400K.

They can and do ask for proof of pension in some instances, especially when using the monthly income method.

[HolyCowCm]

7 hours ago, artisans said:

I have read that "your mileage may vary.." in different Immigration offices. Thanks for mentioning it.  I am moving back to Bangkok. Yes, planning to make the monthly transfers of 65K, and in plenty of time, say mid-month so there's no doubt it's posted monthly.  

Question regards the Immigration Officers, is it possible to establish a connect with one individual that you can work with each time?  My recollections of the past are that you just met with whoever when your number is called. I always went  Changwhattana offices in the past, now over 3 years ago.

I am in Chiang Mai. But for the IO being the same is a no for any renewal type unless you get lucky or if he or she is a not so easy IO then it is unlucky. Sounds like if you have 65k every month then should be no problem, except you might have to have the mandatory insurance if OA unless that has changed. 

[oldschooler]

23 hours ago, artisans said:

As a new member to the Thaiger forum I'm looking forward to being part of this great looking website and commentaries.

in the now distant past I lived Thailand with a retirement visa when my US embassy provided a simple verification of monthly income that satisfied Thai Immigration. On returning to Thailand and looking to qualify for the retirement visa again, avoiding the 800K deposited in the bank method and instead pursue getting there gradually with monthly 65K or more transfers from the US depositing to my existing Citibank Thailand account. Recognizing that this method requires a 1 year history of the monthly 65K deposits, I plan to stay Thailand during that year's time using visa Exempt and other longer term visas to meet the requirements to stay Thailand.  

I would appreciate experienced advice on the financial side of the 65K method. As many times as I've looked for advice on this singular 65K  approach, the available information keeps, in my opinion, getting wrapped up with 800K thb language and requirements.

Is there distinct advice on just the monthly 65K method, guidelines on month to month until you reach 1 full year of deposits?                                Apart from advice that the monthly deposits can be used freely without penalty, it's not clear whether one needs to or it's helpful to build up  a greater balance, short term or long term; whether if you do have a stationary amount deposited, say 65K,  that subsequent monthly deposits continue to need to be the 65K per month or they can be combined with a stable balance to require less monthly.  Also, speaking with one agent, I was advised that my  bank account could not be Citibank for the Immigration agent they worked with - had to be one of the national banks. I guess because they have a 'bank book'?   Is that generally true?

Thanks in advance on advice that clears up the quandaries.

Just continue with same valid Embassy method . Don’t get your post at all. 

[Faz]

53 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Just continue with same valid Embassy method . Don’t get your post at all. 

The OP already stated his US Embassy ceased issuing Income letters, as did the UK and Australian Embassies at the end of 2018.

[Faz]

1 hour ago, HolyCowCm said:

Sounds like if you have 65k every month then should be no problem, except you might have to have the mandatory insurance if OA unless that has changed. 

The OP hasn't stated which Visa type he would prefer to enter Thailand, but yes, the mandatory Health Insurance still applies to the O-A Visa and annual extensions from entry of that Visa type.

It quite often applies for the Non O Visa application, but not for annual extensions from that entry type.