News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[EdwardV]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

Bunker boy travelled outside Kyiv for the first time in 3 months to go to Kharkiv region, which is 30% under Russian control, for the obligatory photoshoot and to rally the troops? They don’t have Zoom?

Disobeying a direct order is sometimes punished with summary execution in the field so a military court seems preferable and more likely.

That 30% is outside artillery range of the city center. No zoom needed. 
 

“Summary execution” for disobeying an order went out of style in WW1 in the west. Seems more than a stretch to say the least. 

[Fanta]

7 minutes ago, NorskTiger said:

I don't see the catastrophy in Russian people not getting hold of a big mac.

Sorry to disappoint both sides of the MacDonalds debate but a franchisee of MacDonalds has agreed to buy all MickeyDs assets in Russia. They won’t be called Big Macs anymore but the Vlad Burger will probably have the same artery clogging goodness we’ve come to loath and love.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/mcdonalds-sell-russia-business-current-licensee-2022-05-19/

[NorskTiger]

Just now, Fanta said:

Sorry to disappoint both sides of the MacDonalds debate but a franchisee of MacDonalds has agreed to buy all MickeyDs assets in Russia. They won’t be called Big Macs anymore but the Vlad Burger will probably have the same artery clogging goodness we’ve come to loath and love.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/mcdonalds-sell-russia-business-current-licensee-2022-05-19/

That is too bad. One can only hope they at least will strive to make the food healthier and less fattening. 

        

[Fester]

1 hour ago, NorskTiger said:

Let's try to clarify some things here. First of all, I do not think you can deny that the Russian advances into Severnodonetsk neral strategic advance, have been rapid.  When it comes to the general advance of Russia, there is no chance of overextension as they are being slow, but steady. Rapid tactical thrusts into one city does not imply overextension on a larger scale. 

   The reality of the Ukrainean army is that there are little strategic reserves West of Dniepr to enable large scale counterattacks. This is not a time where massing and concentration of larger units can go unnoticed, so larger gatherings should be easy to spot. The area between Dniepr and Donetsk is tank terrain like nothing else, so a summer with drying up lands will enable larger Russian units to bypass cities and go to the Eastern Dniepr River banks without much effort, if that indeed is their intents. 

  You are correct that we do not know what importance a gathering of larger ranged artillery will have. The sheer task of bringing US artillery accross the entire Ukraine to the Western banks of Dniepr will definitely not be an easy one. The logistics of this when Russia controls the airspace will be a significant challenge.  More importantly, let's assume it will get there, what will it be good for? Artillery is great as infantry support and as softening device for larger offensives, but otherwise not very useful in offense. So we are left with it's possible role as a defensive standoff weapon to slow Russian advances. These are no "Wunderwaffen" and rarely has the introduction of new arms into an established battlefield been sufficient to make a difference on the ground.

 

Rapid or slow? Make your mind up. You ask questions then try to answer them yourself. The reality is that the numbers and type of Ukrainian reserves are not known absolutely - and for good reason - but they are not going to be be easy to spot (like the Orcs have been).

The area between the Dnieper and Donetsk is huge and you are assuming (far too early) that the Russians will get that far! I think that after the foul-ups at Kiev and Kharkiv then they might give this idea a miss.   

Bringing US artillery to the Dniepro and further east from there has already been done but there is not enough of it there yet to make an impact. More heavy artillery and other weapons, ammo and aid fly in to Poland every day. It's definitely not easy to get this kit to Eastern Ukraine, and there is risk, but they have done it and will continue to do it. 

 

[vlad]

2 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Let's try to clarify some things here. First of all, I do not think you can deny that the Russian advances into Severnodonetsk neral strategic advance, have been rapid.  When it comes to the general advance of Russia, there is no chance of overextension as they are being slow, but steady. Rapid tactical thrusts into one city does not imply overextension on a larger scale. 

   The reality of the Ukrainean army is that there are little strategic reserves West of Dniepr to enable large scale counterattacks. This is not a time where massing and concentration of larger units can go unnoticed, so larger gatherings should be easy to spot. The area between Dniepr and Donetsk is tank terrain like nothing else, so a summer with drying up lands will enable larger Russian units to bypass cities and go to the Eastern Dniepr River banks without much effort, if that indeed is their intents. 

  You are correct that we do not know what importance a gathering of larger ranged artillery will have. The sheer task of bringing US artillery accross the entire Ukraine to the Western banks of Dniepr will definitely not be an easy one. The logistics of this when Russia controls the airspace will be a significant challenge.  More importantly, let's assume it will get there, what will it be good for? Artillery is great as infantry support and as softening device for larger offensives, but otherwise not very useful in offense. So we are left with it's possible role as a defensive standoff weapon to slow Russian advances. These are no "Wunderwaffen" and rarely has the introduction of new arms into an established battlefield been sufficient to make a difference on the ground.

You are clueless Tiger aren't you? do you seriously think America will fly armor in over Ukraine airspace? give up now your making yourself look silly with these silly comments.

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, vlad said:

You are clueless Tiger aren't you? do you seriously think America will fly armor in over Ukraine airspace? give up now your making yourself look silly with these silly comments.

Who said anything about US planes delivering anything inside Ukraine, apart from the voices in your head? It is a long way overland from Poland or Romania to the Donbas region. Russian attacks on key railway junctions, electrical substations,  diesel depots, bridges and highways slow transportation. You’re welcome. 
HINT: read twice and think twice before you even begin to type a reply to avoid the possibility of you appearing to be “silly and clueless”.

[Rookiescot]

13 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

The impression I am getting of this conflict from reading many different sources is that the Donbass front is collapsing all-over. The question then becomes one of what does the Ukrainean army have as backup behind the main frontline East of Dnepr? 

     The rapid Russian advance into SeveroDonetsk appears to be steady and a straight Western trust after this could form the basis for an envelopment of the second largest city in Ukraine (Kharkov).

   If the Russians indeed intend to push up to the Dnepr, the usefullness of any (claimed) longer-ranged US artillery ordinance appears to be quite reduced. 

       Finally, how large is the strategic reserve of Ukraine West of Dniepr? I think we will know within the next three days. 

Ah the usual bluff and bluster. According to you Russian forces should already be enjoying tea and medals in Odessa by now.

Rapid advances? Seriously deluded. The advances being made are small and piecemeal. Cleaver tactics from the Ukrainians. Allow Russian thugs to go through the meat grinder of having to constantly assault position after position while minimising its own casualties.  

Please provide links demonstrating the Ukrainian front is collapsing all over.

I will make a counter claim that the Russian thugs are going backwards around Kherson and provide this link as evidence of that.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 30 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)

And thats after they took a right beating around Kharkiv.

 

[Fester]

45 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Who said anything about US planes delivering anything inside Ukraine, apart from the voices in your head? It is a long way overland from Poland or Romania to the Donbas region. Russian attacks on key railway junctions, electrical substations,  diesel depots, bridges and highways slow transportation. You’re welcome. 
HINT: read twice and think twice before you even begin to type a reply to avoid the possibility of you appearing to be “silly and clueless”.

HINT: why not just stick to replying to posts that are addressed to you and not to others?

[NorskTiger]

56 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Ah the usual bluff and bluster. According to you Russian forces should already be enjoying tea and medals in Odessa by now.

Rapid advances? Seriously deluded. The advances being made are small and piecemeal. Cleaver tactics from the Ukrainians. Allow Russian thugs to go through the meat grinder of having to constantly assault position after position while minimising its own casualties.  

Please provide links demonstrating the Ukrainian front is collapsing all over.

I will make a counter claim that the Russian thugs are going backwards around Kherson and provide this link as evidence of that.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 30 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)

And thats after they took a right beating around Kharkiv.

Again.. I said that the advance into Severnodonetsk was rapid. Stop the stupid hyperbole. I was not saying anything about tea nor Odessa. 

  My impression is that the Ukrainean front IS indeed collapsing most areas. A summation of all the different inputs I am getting. Is it still allowed to have opinions in your world, or should it alse be pre-approved?

 

    As I have previously stated. Smaller tactical wins are achieved by ANY side at ANY part of a conflict, but do not make a difference for the overall war. 

   More and more use of standoff weapons and especially artillery will continue to shift the odds in favor of the Russian forces.  

        

[NorskTiger]

2 hours ago, vlad said:

You are clueless Tiger aren't you? do you seriously think America will fly armor in over Ukraine airspace? give up now your making yourself look silly with these silly comments.

Do you understand anything, or are you just focused on personal attacks and false inferences? 

   Can you see a challenge in bringing heavy ordinance accross the entire Ukriane when the AIRSPACE is controlled by the other side?  

   Do you not think this is going to hamper the logistics? Where do I say ANYTHING about the artillery being brought by planes? 

     You have not thought about how to bring these things and make them operable have you?

 

[NorskTiger]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

HINT: why not just stick to replying to posts that are addressed to you and not to others?

   Is that a new rule?    Make them up as you go?

[Fester]

1 hour ago, NorskTiger said:

   Is that a new rule?    Make them up as you go?

Now you're doing it.  

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Can you see a challenge in bringing heavy ordinance accross the entire Ukriane when the AIRSPACE is controlled by the other side?  

Russia doesn’t control the airspace over western Ukraine. Happy to point that out for you. 

[Vigo]

9 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

You talk a big game about how Russia will suffer, but where is the evidence of that? Who will be fighting Russia? And how much loss of living standard will the Western "democracies" be able to tolerate? 

   Most of the genuine criticism of the USA foreign policy is shut down and what you often see in media is controlled rhetoric. Julian Assange and Manning are the best examples of what happens to Western journalists if you point of war crimes of the West. 

I am talking reality.  Russia already had one of the worst life expectancy and health standards in the "developed world". Russia posts about 73 years, whereas UK  is 81 and Australia 82. Even the USA which you dismiss as fat can manage 79 years. When that shakes out into the population, it means that a lot more young are dying. Infectious diseases are more common in Russia for the simple reason that the general health level is so poor. The Russian economy is on life support and the money the Russian government is pumping in will run out eventually. Sanctions take time to work and we are only a few months in. Now that Russia has to sell its oil to sanction busting nations it is in same predicament as Iran and Venzuela, forced to deep discount the energy so that not much profit is made. Russians are already complaining. They cannot travel to western nations, they cannot launder money in Zurich or London, they are not welcome in quality tourist destinations  because they cannot  use international financial systems.  Give it a year or two and the suffering will increase. it will be even worse when Russia is required to pay war reparations to Ukraine victims.

[Vigo]

3 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Do you understand anything, or are you just focused on personal attacks and false inferences? 

   Can you see a challenge in bringing heavy ordinance accross the entire Ukriane when the AIRSPACE is controlled by the other side?  

   Do you not think this is going to hamper the logistics? Where do I say ANYTHING about the artillery being brought by planes? 

     You have not thought about how to bring these things and make them operable have you?

Russia does not control Ukraine airspace. Russia does not fly over much of Ukraine because  of anti aircraft defense. Heavy armor is not "flown in" to the Ukraine. it goes by ship to Poland and other EU countries and then trucked or trained over. The Canadians sent some light police type utility vehicles and howitzer parts by air but they were not APV or Tanks. It is not cost effective to fly in heavy armor.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Again.. I said that the advance into Severnodonetsk was rapid. Stop the stupid hyperbole. I was not saying anything about tea nor Odessa. 

  My impression is that the Ukrainean front IS indeed collapsing most areas. A summation of all the different inputs I am getting. Is it still allowed to have opinions in your world, or should it alse be pre-approved?

    As I have previously stated. Smaller tactical wins are achieved by ANY side at ANY part of a conflict, but do not make a difference for the overall war. 

   More and more use of standoff weapons and especially artillery will continue to shift the odds in favor of the Russian forces.  

So no links once again to back up your impression. Just the usual bravado about how things are going just super for Czar Putin and his Russian thugs. 

In another post you were claiming that long range artillery were of limited use but now you contradict yourself (again) saying it will shift the odds in favor of the Russian thugs.

Rapid advance became slow and steady. Artillery went from being pointless to being crucial.

You really have no clue about what you are talking about do you?

[vlad]

It's clear the appeasers on here are having a problem facing up to the truth or accepting it. Russia has failed in all its main objectives. First removing Zelenski and taking his capital failed on both, take the second city failed, take Mariupol succeeded after weeks of missiles and bombing that flattened the city and reduced it to rubble, and failed to take a steelworks. What has Russia done successfully? Turned most of the world against them, committed years of struggle for their people in Sanctions, and committed war crimes that are now being acted on and waging Genocide on Ukraine. As Nanook of the North pointed out the only way major Artillery will get to the front is by convoy or Train I foolishly suggested Nanook was spouting the US was capable of using Airlift capabilities faster to the front. I find it disgusting that members on here think it's ok for Russia to carry on what there doing and are happily posting their supposed victories yet they won't admit Russian troops are carrying out Rapes and atrocities against civilians.

[vlad]

Love these videos at least these Tossers won't be raping again.

 

 

[Rookiescot]

18 minutes ago, vlad said:

Love these videos at least these Tossers won't be raping again.

More mothers getting told their son is "missing" in the Ukraine so Czar Putin does not have to pay any compensation. 

[dbrenn]

Why is everyone so obsessed about Ukraine? It used to be part of the USSR, and most people knew nothing of the place before now.

And why is everyone so obsessed with Russia, when China is the real enemy?

Edited June 1, 2022 by dbrenn

[Marble-eye]

7 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Why is everyone so obsessed about Ukraine? It used to be part of the USSR, and most people knew nothing of the place before now.

And why is everyone so obsessed with Russia, when China is the real enemy?

I'm only guessing but I think the clue is in the name of this topic. 

News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[dbrenn]

1 minute ago, Marble-eye said:

I'm only guessing but I think the clue is in the name of this topic. 

News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

Still doesn't answer my question though. Why does Ukraine evoke such extremely strong emotions in people, when for years nobody gave two hoots about what was a province of the USSR?

Meanwhile, China occupies Tibet, builds a military to rival that of the West, threatens Taiwan and throws Uigers in concentration camps?

[Marble-eye]

2 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Still doesn't answer my question though. Why does Ukraine evoke such extremely strong emotions in people, when for years nobody gave two hoots about what was a province of the USSR?

Meanwhile, China occupies Tibet, builds a military to rival that of the West, threatens Taiwan and throws Uigers in concentration camps?

I have answered your question and still you insist on bringing China into this! 

[dbrenn]

1 minute ago, Marble-eye said:

I have answered your question and still you insist on bringing China into this! 

I'm using China to illustrate what appears to be a double standard. Why is the Western world so obsessed with Ukraine? Even this thread has pages of posts of passionate content. It's all we read about in the news. All about a place that nobody cared about for decades, and nobody understands even now.

What was so different when the Soviets had the place under their jackboot?

[Fanta]

9 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

It's all we read about in the news

There. That’s your answer.