News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Fanta]

4 hours ago, Del_SoL said:

Renault factories confiscated, they continue produce cars under Russian brand. (no right to buyback)

Renault have the option to buy back within 6 years.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/enault-sells-avtovaz-stake-amid-ukraine-war-sanctions-leaves-room-return

[Fanta]

8 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Still I think the point remains Ukraine is at some point going to start running out of tanks

I think Ukraine’s military command prays to the God of Rain every day. 40 days and 40  nights of downpours and mushy ground would be a wet dream come true for them. 

[EdwardV]

30 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Russia is flying 200+ sorties a day. Ukraine is flying 5-10 sorties a day. Ukrainian infrastructure, command posts, equipment depots, supply lines etc etc are getting hit every day. Donbas is an artillery battle however ignoring 200+ missions a day seems disingenuous.

Considering most of Russian sorties are dropping mostly dumb bombs, that's a lot of misses too. That aside, the US donated some 214K 155mm artillery shells. I remember listening to a pod cast which had Lt General (ret) Ben Hodges on it. He said at the time, the Ukraine army will go through that in about a month. Good thing it's a standard size throughout NATO. Everyone can help with keeping them supplied.   

[Fanta]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Erdogans attempted trickery with new NATO members is sickening & is already being bypassed by the key NATO players.

To be accepted as a NATO member a unanimous vote is needed. The Turk is selling his vote for as much as he can but it is for sale. He will vote for who he is persuaded to vote for. It’s called politics. 

[EdwardV]

29 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Armed with pitchforks and riding their trusty tractors into battle. Unless you can arm, integrate and deploy additional troops into the field you may as well not bother. They will be cannon fodder. Any benefit they provide as soldiers will quickly be outweighed by their personal contribution to the fertilizer shortfall.

It's probably why Ukraine hasn't mobilized the entire male population between the ages of 18-60. I find it hard to believe they can't get about 500K kits out of NATO in the last 2+ months.  Those additional troops are still training:

 

The Ukrainian army appears to be forming a new mechanized infantry unit. The unit’s equipment, training and location—all evident in an official promotional video—are worth noting. The unit is training on mostly donated equipment: ex-Polish T-72M1 tanks, ex-Dutch YPR-765 armored personnel carriers and ex-British and ex-Turkish infantry equipment.

Watch The Ukrainian Army Form A New Brigade With Donated Tanks (msn.com)

Hopefully the same can be said about Russians, but I kinda doubt it. 

[Fanta]

15 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

That aside, the US donated some 214K 155mm artillery shells. 

That’s only useful if the heat actually makes it to the front lines. Russia has been hitting support depots and lines for a while now. Ukraine is shooting off ammo faster than it is being supplied. Uncle Sam better start ranking up production soon. Brazil is delighted. Germany is next to useless. Lose 2 world wars, have your country occupied & split in two and they become pussies 

[Fanta]

14 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The Ukrainian army appears to be forming a new mechanized infantry unit. The unit’s equipment, training and location—all evident in an official promotional video—are worth noting. The unit is training on mostly donated equipment: ex-Polish T-72M1 tanks, ex-Dutch YPR-765 armored personnel carriers and ex-British and ex-Turkish infantry equipment.

Doesn’t matter so much if it is a hodgepodge of donated stuff as long as it works effectively and can be maintained. The problem is also the wetware directing the trigger pullers. Ukraine’s officer core must already be stretched to the limit and training up existing soldiers to fill necessary command roles won’t happen overnight. Hopefully the Russians will be singing that Milli Vanilli song “Blame it on the rain” in a few months during their tactical withdrawal to the Motherland. Sadly I can’t see them giving up quite so easily. 

[EdwardV]

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has played down Finland and Sweden's bids to join NATO, saying it makes "no big difference" if they join as they've long-participated in military drills anyway. The comments come after military analysts said Russia had little room to retaliate against the move, given that it wants to avoid a direct confrontation with NATO, and the fact that its forces are fully tied-up in Ukraine.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/05/17/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html

What happen to the threats and retaliation? You know nukes and all that stuff? Now it’s like “whatever” hahaha. That’s what happens when your bluff gets called. Wish some unnamed NATO members (cough, Germany, cough) would learn that lesson. 
 

Oh in other news the US Senate approved the $40B Ukraine aid bill today. Biden will get it tomorrow. Christmas comes early …. 

 

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Russia is flying 200+ sorties a day. Ukraine is flying 5-10 sorties a day. Ukrainian infrastructure, command posts, equipment depots, supply lines etc etc are getting hit every day. Donbas is an artillery battle however ignoring 200+ missions a day seems disingenuous.

Links?

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Armed with pitchforks and riding their trusty tractors into battle. Unless you can arm, integrate and deploy additional troops into the field you may as well not bother. They will be cannon fodder. Any benefit they provide as soldiers will quickly be outweighed by their personal contribution to the fertilizer shortfall.

Sick.

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Azov 900 to 2,500 soldiers. 1,000 of them killed or captured in Mariupol. After Putin saying he wants to deNazify Ukraine I think not so many people want to be in Azov Battalion any more. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Photo not from your wiki link. Is that source also anonymous?

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

That’s only useful if the heat actually makes it to the front lines. Russia has been hitting support depots and lines for a while now. Ukraine is shooting off ammo faster than it is being supplied. Uncle Sam better start ranking up production soon. Brazil is delighted. Germany is next to useless. Lose 2 world wars, have your country occupied & split in two and they become pussies 

Link less again.

M777's already used at the front last week. Take cover!

https://www.newsweek.com/how-american-m777-howitzers-turning-tide-ukraine-war-russia-1705184

[Fanta]

Seems as if those Russian sorties are having a serious effect on, at least, Ukraine’s fuel supply. It was 200+ Russian sorties a day in March. Now 300+ a day. Fuel rationing next?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-removes-fuel-price-restrictions-increase-supply-economy-minister-2022-05-17/

https://www.airforcemag.com/russian-sorties-rise-british-defense-minister-to-meet-austin-as-ukraine-aid-money-runs-low/

[EdwardV]

25 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Seems as if those Russian sorties are having a serious effect on, at least, Ukraine’s fuel supply. It was 200+ Russian sorties a day in March. Now 300+ a day. Fuel rationing next?

Yes and no. Clearly blowing up storage facilities is having a huge impact. It destroyed the Ukrainian flexibility to control prices to limit the damage to the economy and still have plenty of fuel.

However what is limiting supply now is ironically the prices controls. It’s clear from the article lifting the price controls will flood the country with supply. No one is going to take a tanker truck to Poland, load up and bring it back if price controls mean they can’t make enough to cover the cost and risk. No doubt the EU will supply more than enough tanker trucks. Just as there is no doubt plenty of enterprising Ukrainian teamsters are looking to make money. You can fire a cruise missile from the Black Sea or Russia and hit a storage facility. Doing so to a moving truck is horse of a different color. Clearly the price of diesel will go though the roof, but it will be plentiful. 

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

Russia is flying 200+ sorties a day. Ukraine is flying 5-10 sorties a day. Ukrainian infrastructure, command posts, equipment depots, supply lines etc etc are getting hit every day. Donbas is an artillery battle however ignoring 200+ missions a day seems disingenuous.

Air sorties don’t win battles or take / hold ground. What air losses are there ? Russians must be getting hit in all those areas too…. and critically Russian arty is outranged so that must be getting hit as well.

Russian Morale, Numbers & Combat Effectiveness (effectiveMESS ?) just aren’t there for a decisive win here.  

 

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

To be accepted as a NATO member a unanimous vote is needed. The Turk is selling his vote for as much as he can but it is for sale. He will vote for who he is persuaded to vote for. It’s called politics. 

Turks Selling but Nobody Buying.

Clearly any Vote against Sweden/ Finland joining NATO is already bypassed by direct alliances & existing integration.

West ain’t waiting a year to complete the “paperwork” or overcome veto to commence effective defence of each other ! Note: Turkey are very much NOT “ the West”. 

Russia & Turkey will no doubt complain that NATO did not follow its own “ rules”! Tough. 

Newsflash for the “ you can’t DO that” brigade. National Interest (Survival) always trumps treaties & “rules”.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

Yes and no. Clearly blowing up storage facilities is having a huge impact. It destroyed the Ukrainian flexibility to control prices to limit the damage to the economy and still have plenty of fuel.

However what is limiting supply now is ironically the prices controls. It’s clear from the article lifting the price controls will flood the country with supply. No one is going to take a tanker truck to Poland, load up and bring it back if price controls mean they can’t make enough to cover the cost and risk. No doubt the EU will supply more than enough tanker trucks. Just as there is no doubt plenty of enterprising Ukrainian teamsters are looking to make money. You can fire a cruise missile from the Black Sea or Russia and hit a storage facility. Doing so to a moving truck is horse of a different color. Clearly the price of diesel will go though the roof, but it will be plentiful. 

Ukraine already videoed hitting Russian moving trucks with laser / spotter- guided howitzer strikes

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Air sorties don’t win battles or take / hold ground. What air losses are there ? Russians must be getting hit in all those areas too

Armies cannot win battles without weapons and supplies. Ukraine’s oil refineries, fuel depots, manufacturing, supply & repair area are hit daily, bridges and railways are being destroyed to name the most obvious. Ukrainian is flying 5-10 sorties a day. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Russian Morale, Numbers & Combat Effectiveness (effectiveMESS ?) just aren’t there for a decisive win here.  

And who told you all this? Obviously not the Russian media who tell the opposite. “Experts” are getting their info from the Ukrainian government and the US who have their own agenda for painting as bleak a picture as possible of Russia’s performance and capabilities. 

[Fanta]

36 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Ukraine already videoed hitting Russian moving trucks with laser / spotter- guided howitzer strikes

They need to show some return on investment for all those expensive Western supplied weapons. Let’s hope it is enough to reverse the Russian offensive. 

[EdwardV]

10 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Armies cannot win battles without weapons and supplies. Ukraine’s oil refineries, fuel depots, manufacturing, supply & repair area are hit daily, bridges and railways are being destroyed to name the most obvious. Ukrainian is flying 5-10 sorties a day. 

 

The Pentagon spokesperson, John Kirby, noted that, in the past, Russian forces have not had a good record of hitting what they were aiming at.“I would just remind you that their ability to target with precision has been less than advertised throughout this entire war. They are not good at precision strikes,” Kirby said, adding that the delivery of US and allied weapons was not seriously affected. “The flow into the region continues at an incredible pace, and the flow of materials from the region into Ukraine also continues every single day,” he said. “Those weapons, those systems, are getting into Ukrainian hands.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/04/russian-airstrikes-target-western-arms-arriving-in-ukraine

Russia isn’t flying into the interior of Ukraine and doing precision strikes. They are mostly firing missiles from outside to hit static targets. While they have had success hitting buildings and bridges, for some strange reason the trains keep running. 

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

And who told you all this? Obviously not the Russian media who tell the opposite. “Experts” are getting their info from the Ukrainian government and the US who have their own agenda for painting as bleak a picture as possible of Russia’s performance and capabilities. 

Multiple Western Govt / Institute/ Expert / Military Sources…. Every Day.

They can’t all be lying & following same “ agenda”. .That would be Russian / Chinese Unfree behavior and,if by West, unproven “ conspiracy theory” nonsense.

[EdwardV]

The war with Russia is entering “a protracted phase,” Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksiy Reznikov said Tuesday, with Moscow’s troops now trying to take full control of the east and south of the country. “Russia is preparing for a long-term military operation,” Reznikov told European Union defense ministers and NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. “The war is entering a protracted phase,” he added in the speech, the text of which was published on his Facebook page. According to Reznikov, Russian troops are currently building fortifications in the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions in order to “move to defense if necessary.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-says-russian-troops-bolstering-defenses-to-hold-gains-in-east-south/amp/

Doesn’t look like this is ending anytime soon. Any thought of a negotiated peace deal isn’t going to happen as long as Russia demands to hold onto area it’s taken in this invasion. I can’t see Ukraine agreeing to that, not long as weapons and funds are flowing. That’s not going to change as NATO is all in (particularly the eastern nations, Britain and the US). 
 

Kherson will become the hot spot once Donbas cools off. It will be a tough nut to crack, but it’s on the wrong side of the river. 

[Fanta]

10 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The Pentagon spokesperson, John Kirby, noted that, in the past, Russian forces have not had a good record of hitting what they were aiming at.“I would just remind you that their ability to target with precision has been less than advertised throughout this entire war. They are not good at precision strikes,” Kirby said, adding that the delivery of US and allied weapons was not seriously affected. “The flow into the region continues at an incredible pace, and the flow of materials from the region into Ukraine also continues every single day,” he said. “Those weapons, those systems, are getting into Ukrainian hands.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/04/russian-airstrikes-target-western-arms-arriving-in-ukraine

Russia isn’t flying into the interior of Ukraine and doing precision strikes. They are mostly firing missiles from outside to hit static targets. While they have had success hitting buildings and bridges, for some strange reason the trains keep running. 

And what question was he replying to? I’d guess something like “Russia is flying xxxx sorties a day. And hitting the equipment and ammo dumps where we send weapons.” “That doesn’t matter because Russia couldn’t hit anything anyway.”’ How does Russia sell all these weapons that cannot hit the side of a barn? And they launching dumb bombs from inside Russia? Are these brainless missiles also without a GPS and targeting system? Clearly not. 

Railways are running fine? Russia has been hitting railway junctions and power facilities for over a month. 

”Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said Wednesday that Russian forces were "attempting to hit what we assess to be critical infrastructure targets out towards the West" in Ukraine including "electrical power, transportation hubs, that kind of thing”

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/04/europe/ukraine-russia-railways-intl/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/25/russia-bombs-five-rail-stations-in-central-and-western-ukraine

[Fanta]

33 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

They can’t all be lying & following same “ agenda”. .That would be Russian / Chinese Unfree behavior and,if by West, unproven “ conspiracy theory” nonsense.

I didn’t say they were lying. Being prudent with the selected information given to them and presenting a biased agenda is far more realistic in a time of war. Your average US politician can’t be trusted from one day to the next and you believe they can be trusted now? Point in case - Afghanistan - “Money well spent and everything going so well that we can leave them to take care of themselves now.” Mission failed successfully.