News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[vlad]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

no substance…. no clarity …. implied unfair criticism of Zelensky / Ukraine for not surrendering….no mention (or criticism) of invading tyrant Putin …..

Your posts are increasingly deranged so not worth responding to positively ….. except as entertainment & to easily unravel & conclude  “not worth further response“

So very few are buying what evil pro- tyranny propaganda you’re peddling so why not just stop and disappear to get deprogrammed from your formative Marxist professor / SVR twisted input ? 

lol oldscooler Nanook lives in an igloo and only has internet once a satellite passes over the pole once a day.   He quickly has to post a response quickly. That's why he gets muddled up instead of taking time to think about his post he just runs off-topic and forgets the thread title FBS.

[oldschooler]

15 minutes ago, vlad said:

lol oldscooler Nanook lives in an igloo and only has internet once a satellite passes over the pole once a day.   He quickly has to post a response quickly. That's why he gets muddled up instead of taking time to think about his post he just runs off-topic and forgets the thread title FBS.

Leads the Stalinist Communist Party of Norway ; membership of seven

[vlad]

5 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Leads the Stalinist Communist Party of Norway ; membership of seven

Wonder where his Satellite dish is positioned? as we know there are no high trees in the Arctic circle

[Alavan]

6 hours ago, Fanta said:

it was always about the Nazis! Mariupol was an Azov stronghold, most of the south was. They’ve been evacuated successfully. A land bridge from Crimea thru Nazi Town and on to save the embattled brothers in the Donbas? He has gone a bit overboard with the Kharkiv thing. We will see if/when Donbas falls. As I have said before, if it was up to me and a certain German chancellor, I’d say “Here. Take the Donbas and piss off.”

And of course you have links to prove that most of the South is Nazi. Not just those less than 2000 extreme right football holigans who entered the Azov bataljon, but all citizens from Cherson, Mariupol and other cities.

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Alavan said:

And of course you have links to prove that most of the South is Nazi. Not just those less than 2000 extreme right football holigans who entered the Azov bataljon, but all citizens from Cherson, Mariupol and other cities.

It was written tongue in cheek. Who knows what Russia’s plans are for the invasion. 

[EdwardV]

Seems Ukraine isn't the only one sacking generals: 

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin has fired five generals and one police colonel, according to a report from Moscow-based media group RBC, amid the country's military failures in Ukraine.Putin reportedly issued a decree on Monday that saw five generals at the Russian Ministry of the Internal Affairs dismissed from their posts in what one unnamed official said was part of a personnel rotation.

The reports of the most recent firings come after Putin reportedly dismissed other senior officials last month. On May 19, the U.K. Ministry of Defense reported that Putin had fired two senior commanders - Lieutenant General Serhiy Kisel, who had commanded the 1st Guards Tank Army, and Vice Admiral Igor Osipov of the Black Sea Fleet.

Putin Fires Five Generals as Russia's Military Failures in Ukraine Continue (newsweek.com)

Remind me again .... firing bad? keeping good? 

 

[EdwardV]

After fits and starts, the US is finally sending multiple launch rocket system artillery to Ukraine: 

 The officials said the systems that the US is sending Ukraine will be equipped with munitions that will allow Ukraine to launch rockets about 49 miles. That is far less than the systems’ maximum range, but far greater than anything Ukraine has been sent to date. The new security assistance package, to be announced officially on Wednesday, will also include air surveillance radars, additional Javelin anti-tank weapons, anti-armor weapons, artillery rounds, helicopters, tactical vehicles and spare parts to help the Ukrainians continue maintaining the equipment, the officials said.

Biden announces new rockets and munitions to Ukraine (msn.com)

They are sending the M142 HIMARS which is truck mounted and a relatively new system. While many countries have orders, best I can tell is only Singapore has them so far outside the US. This is the first batch of equipment worth $700M out of the new $40B aid package (which $24B is military aid). At this rate the US needs to really pick it up if they plan to spend all the money by the end of September.  

M142 HIMARS - Wikipedia

No word on how many yet. The US has about 375 of them and a single battery is 6 launchers. The M142 is currently under production. These go along with the early reports of the US self-propelled 155mm artillery already being delivered to Ukraine, Italy sending a battery of towed 155mm guns and Poland sending a battery of 155mm self-propelled guns too. 

Interestingly just a couple of hours after the US decision, the UK government asked permission to ship the M270 MLRS. It's the older tracked version which carries twice as many missiles. These are scattered all over Europe, so other counties might join in. Both systems are basically designed for counter battery fire and deep strike command and control, depots, etc. 

Today Germany announced:

 

Germany will supply Ukraine with the IRIS-T modern air defence and radar systems, Chancellor Olaf Scholz has said, stepping up arms deliveries amid criticism that Berlin is not doing enough to help Kyiv in its fight against Russia. “The government has decided that we will send the IRIS-T system – the most modern system that Germany currently possesses,” the German chancellor told parliament.

Germany to supply modern IRIS-T air defence system to Ukraine | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera

Seems like the first delivery of modern western anti aircraft missile systems (other than MANPADS). They also said the Ukrainian crews were done training on the Germany self propelled artillery and they would now move into Ukraine. 

 

 

[Fanta]

3 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Seems Ukraine isn't the only one sacking generals: 

Russian President Vladimir Putin has fired five generals and one police colonel, according to a report from Moscow-based media group RBC, amid the country's military failures in Ukraine.Putin reportedly issued a decree on Monday that saw five generals at the Russian Ministry of the Internal Affairs dismissed from their posts in what one unnamed official said was part of a personnel rotation.

The reports of the most recent firings come after Putin reportedly dismissed other senior officials last month. On May 19, the U.K. Ministry of Defense reported that Putin had fired two senior commanders - Lieutenant General Serhiy Kisel, who had commanded the 1st Guards Tank Army, and Vice Admiral Igor Osipov of the Black Sea Fleet.

Putin Fires Five Generals as Russia's Military Failures in Ukraine Continue (newsweek.com)

Remind me again .... firing bad? keeping good? 

What does firings some cops have to do with a military campaign? These people were all Internal Affairs positions (police) whose work is inside Russia, not battlefield generals involved in Ukraine.

“The MVD is responsible for law enforcement in Russia through its agencies the Police of Russia, Migration Affairs, Drugs Control, Traffic Safety, the Centre for Combating Extremism, and the Investigative Department. The MVD is headquartered in Zhitnaya Street 16 in Yakimanka, Moscow.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Internal_Affairs_(Russia) 

 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

After fits and starts, the US is finally sending multiple launch rocket system artillery to Ukraine: 

The Russian 9A52-4 Tornado is already deployed in Ukraine and fires 90 kilometers. The US will have to send 100 to match the Russian capability. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9A52-4_Tornado

These MLRS might match the Russian’s battlefield capabilities but they won’t address the artillery imbalance that clearly exists between both sides. Germany should send those tanks they aren’t using. 

[EdwardV]

23 minutes ago, Fanta said:

What does firings some cops have to do with a military campaign? These people were all Internal Affairs positions (police) whose work is inside Russia, not battlefield generals involved in Ukraine.

You mean besides the general in change of the 1st Guards Tank Army (not division but ARMY) and the vice admiral in charge of the Black Sea fleet right? Correct me if wrong, but doesn’t Russia only have a single tank army? All the rest are mechanized armies? 
 

You are missing the point. You said firing generals was sign of bad things behind the scene. Something like that. So is something wrong back in Moscow? 

[Fanta]

11 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

You mean besides the general in change of the 1st Guards Tank Army (not division but ARMY) and the vice admiral in charge of the Black Sea fleet right? Correct me if wrong, but doesn’t Russia only have a single tank army? All the rest are mechanized armies? 
 

You are missing the point. You said firing generals was sign of bad things behind the scene. Something like that. So is something wrong back in Moscow? 

Putin Fires Five Generals as Russia's Military Failures in Ukraine Continue

Claiming that  the dismissal of 5 police generals and 1 police colonel is related to a military campaign in Ukraine is just reaching. Remove their dismissals from your post and you are just reposting old news. 

[EdwardV]

15 minutes ago, Fanta said:

These MLRS might match the Russian’s battlefield capabilities but they won’t address the artillery imbalance that clearly exists between both sides. Germany should send those tanks they aren’t using

They are not there to try and match the imbalance, that’s the job of the continuing addition of tube artillery. A job they will never fulfill but they can try. The MLRS are there to hunt Russian artillery units. That’s how they help the imbalance. 
 

Fully agree. It’s clear with the recent news Germany is sending the AFVs to Greece. So the Greeks can send old Russian AFVs to Ukraine. It’s never going to happen. Why not just send the German AFV to Ukraine to begin with? It’s because the German PM has no intention of sending “offensive” weapons to Ukraine. What do they send? Man portable rockets, artillery, and anti aircraft guns and missiles. Weapons more likely to be classified as defensive in nature. He’s not all in, mostly but not all. 

[EdwardV]

7 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Claiming that  the dismissal of 5 police generals and 1 police colonel is related to a military campaign in Ukraine is just reaching. Remove their dismissals from your post and you are just reposting old news.

To be fair I didn’t write the headline and both portions were in the same article. Even so it doesn’t change my point about you claiming firing generals was a bad sign. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. 
 

 

[Fanta]

2 hours ago, EdwardV said:

This is the first batch of equipment worth $700M out of the new $40B aid package (which $24B is military aid). At this rate the US needs to really pick it up if they plan to spend all the money by the end of September.  

Why do they need to spend $24 billion by the end of September? It was always obvious that the $40B was just the beginning but that rate of spending is about $6B a month. $200 million a day!

[dbrenn]

1 hour ago, Transam said:

.........Did you not know this thread is about Ukraine, is there a thread on this forum running about the countries you name to respond too, if there is, please point them out, if not, get off your soap box......

Amazing.............

No need to get your knickers in a twist mate. My post was obviously about questioning our attitude towards Ukraine, and our hypocrisy in thinking that it's alright for us to kill civilians but it's a war crime when the Russians do it. By ignoring that valid comparison, you're narrowing the debate by being intentionally obtuse. 

People in the West seem to need a bogeyman, and are ill at ease without one.

When we comparing palm on little children, it's fine. But when others do it, you rail against dead civilians. A double standard, if ever there was one, or are American napalm and high explosives somehow 'nicer' than what Russia uses?

Very perplexing, this Ukraine obsession.

Edited June 2, 2022 by dbrenn

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Why do they need to spend $24 billion by the end of September? It was always obvious that the $40B was just the beginning but that rate of spending is about $6B a month. $200 million a day!

Because if you don’t spend it all, you can’t ask for more. It’s the American way. The money is set for the time period that runs through September. About a month from now, Congress is going to start asking the White House why they are not spending the money given to support Ukraine fast enough. About a month after that they will do it again but not in a nice way. Congress is going to want it all spent so they can act important and give more. America was spending $300M per day in Afghanistan. Just saying. 

 

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

No need to get your knickers in a twist mate. My post was obviously about questioning our attitude towards Ukraine, and our hypocrisy in thinking that it's alright for us to kill civilians but it's a war crime when the Russians do it. By ignoring that valid comparison, you're narrowing the debate by being intentionally obtuse. 

People in the West seem to need a bogeyman, and are ill at ease without one.

When we comparing palm on little children, it's fine. But when others do it, you rail against dead civilians. A double standard, if ever there was one, or are American napalm and high explosives somehow 'nicer' than what Russia uses?

Very perplexing, this Ukraine obsession.

It is not an "obsession" as you suggest. Any illegitimate invasion of a sovereign nation a nuclear power and conventional powerhouse deserves condemnation. Ukraine just happens to be the most current one and poses an ongoing threat to so many countries. Hence simply generating a higher level of interest.

It is the size and symbolism of what is happening that is disturbing and causing the amount of commentary. Innocent deaths from war are a fact of war and no more or less tragic no matter whose deaths they are or how they are caused. This includes these battles in Ukraine and the methods used to carry them out.

 

Protests have occurred against other conflicts you mentioned as a comparison. Here are just 2 examples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_protests_against_the_Vietnam_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War

But, without doubt, this current situation is the most recent with a level of coverage unprecedented from the past with more sophisticated tools to do so and an audience, unseen before, on social media channels. That alone contributes massively towards generating commentary on the subject. More so than ever before.

[Vigo]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

What does firings some cops have to do with a military campaign? These people were all Internal Affairs positions (police) whose work is inside Russia, not battlefield generals involved in Ukraine.

“The MVD is responsible for law enforcement in Russia through its agencies the Police of Russia, Migration Affairs, Drugs Control, Traffic Safety, the Centre for Combating Extremism, and the Investigative Department. The MVD is headquartered in Zhitnaya Street 16 in Yakimanka, Moscow.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Internal_Affairs_(Russia) 

Apparently, it was the security services who had planned the invasion of Ukraine and not the Russian military. The word out of Moscow is that the military was handed the final plan and told to execute.  

[Fanta]

37 minutes ago, Vigo said:

Apparently, it was the security services who had planned the invasion of Ukraine and not the Russian military. The word out of Moscow is that the military was handed the final plan and told to execute.  

Really? The word is out?  Even Newsweek didn’t claim that the Russian security services planned the invasion. This is the same Newsweek that also claim that Russian soldiers have no food and are eating dogs - all based on their unbiased sources in Ukraine military. How many weeks has it been since Russia was running out of food, weapons, will power? 10 weeks now? And the tanks…  but that was last weeks shortage.

“There's No Food': Russian Soldiers Forced To Eat Dogs, Ukraine Claims“

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-soldiers-eat-dogs-food-shortage-ukraine-security-service-claims-1712009

[vlad]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

What does firings some cops have to do with a military campaign? These people were all Internal Affairs positions (police) whose work is inside Russia, not battlefield generals involved in Ukraine.

“The MVD is responsible for law enforcement in Russia through its agencies the Police of Russia, Migration Affairs, Drugs Control, Traffic Safety, the Centre for Combating Extremism, and the Investigative Department. The MVD is headquartered in Zhitnaya Street 16 in Yakimanka, Moscow.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Internal_Affairs_(Russia) 

You were gloating that zelenskyy had sacked 1 general Haw-Haw and when asked how many Putin fired you completely ignored it. 

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Really? The word is out?  Even Newsweek didn’t claim that the Russian security services planned the invasion. This is the same Newsweek that also claim that Russian soldiers have no food and are eating dogs - all based on their unbiased sources in Ukraine military. How many weeks has it been since Russia was running out of food, weapons, will power? 10 weeks now? And the tanks…  but that was last weeks shortage.

“There's No Food': Russian Soldiers Forced To Eat Dogs, Ukraine Claims“

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-soldiers-eat-dogs-food-shortage-ukraine-security-service-claims-1712009

No need to eat dogs or get supplies from Russia when the have so much grain and other crops stolen from Ukraine. 

https://english.nv.ua/business/russian-invaders-steal-grain-from-ukraine-ukraine-news-50240727.html

 

[vlad]

7 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

No need to eat dogs or get supplies from Russia when the have so much grain and other crops stolen from Ukraine. 

https://english.nv.ua/business/russian-invaders-steal-grain-from-ukraine-ukraine-news-50240727.html

Stealing food when there looting their homes to Smithydog.

[NorskTiger]

20 hours ago, dbrenn said:

What about civilians lying dead in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya or Yemen then? Why the outrage over just one place, but not others? That's the irrational part.

The "whataboutism" pettiness absolves Western trolls from ever having to be held up to the standards they make themsevles. 

[NorskTiger]

1 hour ago, Transam said:

You are still off-topic, go start a thread for the like minded, chap...

He is making the point that why this double standard? Why is it impossible for you guys to realize that if you  demand one thing of others, but a different one for yourself, it is not going to be accepted by others. 

   Zelensky is not the one calling the shots any more. Was he ever?  Can he put down the arms now, even if he wanted to? FOr him, a rapid evacuation and a nice Caribbean beach resort with new identiy and lifelong guards must be a tempting motivation to keep this up, IMHO. 

[NorskTiger]

16 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Classic whataboutism. Attempting to justify current bad actions by pointing out completely unrelated bad actions by others. As if that gives Russia a free pass to murder, loot and rape. Really this is the best you can do? 

And a classic deflection from your part when confronted with an immense double standard over events that are happening at same time in different place by different actors. 

      So does your allegations give UK soldiers a free pass to murder IRaqi civillians?