News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[vlad]

9 minutes ago, IneptoCracy said:

One good point of this war is that we have learnt all the regions of the Ukraine, learnt how to say their names and wipe them off our to see tourism bucket list.

The EU needs anti- acid tablets right now, as their tummy acid must have risen to dangerous levels.

There was a saying we learnt in school long long ago. It went, “Let China Sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world,” (Napoleon Bonaparte).

Maybe now we can change the country and insert Russia.

Mmm can't say I've never heard that 1 IneptoCracy. I learned " Let them Eat Cake "

[Fanta]

1 minute ago, vlad said:

Another top-class Deflection Haw-Haw your good at that I'll give you that. Are going to answer your own question? is the Donbas region in Ukraine or Russia?

Asking a stupid question doesn’t mean you deserve an answer but I will humor you. The Donbas region is in Ukraine. I have never said Russia wants to conquer Ukraine. I have said and argued the exact opposite. 

[NorskTiger]

48 minutes ago, vlad said:

...Some members dig a hole for themselves by posting silly comments that once there rumbled they wobble like jelly such as the Ukrainian president sacking one of his generals when asked how many has Putin sacked couldn't respond so just ignored it altogether or others that cannot comprehend the English Language....

  But, isn't your retort here an example of the famous "whataboutism" you guys talk so much about?

[vlad]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Asking a stupid question doesn’t mean you deserve an answer but I will humor you. The Donbas region is in Ukraine. I have never said Russia wants to conquer Ukraine. I have said and argued the exact opposite. 

OK so let's summarise Putin did not want to conquer Ukraine as you stated so why did he attack Ukraine's two biggest cities Kyiv and Kharkiv there nowhere near the Donbas region? Would you like to answer why war crimes were committed miles away from that region in Bucha?  

[vlad]

We saw videos of Zelenskyy leaving the safety of his capital to meet his troops down in the south. Has Putin left the Kremlin to greet his troops at the front or has he kept his head down and left it to his stooges to present medals for murdering and raping civilians?

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, IneptoCracy said:

Russia and Ukraine doing their bit to aid world depopulation, spurned on by NATO supplying more weapons in the fight to keep their populations on the decline.

Last time I checked Ukraine didn’t start the war. They only want Russia gone from their land and to be left in peace. Oh and NATO doesn’t own any military equipment. 

[EdwardV]

31 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I have never said Russia wants to conquer Ukraine. I have said and argued the exact opposite. 

While true, it’s always been a hard sell. When you consider Putin stating Ukraine isn’t a country and is in fact part of Russia it’s hard to believe the entire country wasn’t the original objective. Same with the De-Nazification talk. If you are to believe Donbas is and was the only objective, why make the other points in justifying the invasion? It doesn’t make any sense. Same with talk about taking all of southern Ukraine. That’s hardly Donbas. If your original objective was Donbas, there are much simpler and less costly ways to take that area than blow off most of your combat ground troops attacking areas not in Donbas. 
 

It’s easy to point to Donbas now as Russia has been forced to change its objective to something much more manageable. However there was a 40 mile convoy of troops outside of Kyiv which would argue otherwise. 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Is that a general question or does it only pertain to this current conflict?

It is what it is and you dare not answer

[dbrenn]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

There. That’s your answer.

You're right - the irrational Ukraine frenzy is a good illustration of the power the mass media has to whip people up into hysterics, about whatever cause is the distraction of the day. A bit like the two-minute hate in Orwell's 1984.

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, NorskTiger said:

  But, isn't your retort here an example of the famous "whataboutism" you guys talk so much about?

which tactic you constantly deploy as pathetic deflection from truth and in pushing your transparent pro- Russian / anti -NATO nonsense.

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

While true, it’s always been a hard sell. When you consider Putin stating Ukraine isn’t a country and is in fact part of Russia it’s hard to believe the entire country wasn’t the original objective. Same with the De-Nazification talk. If you are to believe Donbas is and was the only objective, why make the other points in justifying the invasion? It doesn’t make any sense. Same with talk about taking all of southern Ukraine. That’s hardly Donbas. If your original objective was Donbas, there are much simpler and less costly ways to take that area than blow off most of your combat ground troops attacking areas not in Donbas. 
 

It’s easy to point to Donbas now as Russia has been forced to change its objective to something much more manageable. However there was a 40 mile convoy of troops outside of Kyiv which would argue otherwise. 

it was always about the Nazis! Mariupol was an Azov stronghold, most of the south was. They’ve been evacuated successfully. A land bridge from Crimea thru Nazi Town and on to save the embattled brothers in the Donbas? He has gone a bit overboard with the Kharkiv thing. We will see if/when Donbas falls. As I have said before, if it was up to me and a certain German chancellor, I’d say “Here. Take the Donbas and piss off.”

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, NorskTiger said:

Pointing out double standards about a post used to be understandably valid as part of the subject matter.

    The intensity of this conflict and the involvement of the entire West makes it apparent that it would not be just for Zelensky to put down arms here. 

    He must be under intense pressure not to give an inch, which neither he is doing. It is hsi people who are giving up inches, feet, yards and miles day by day. 

no substance…. no clarity …. implied unfair criticism of Zelensky / Ukraine for not surrendering….no mention (or criticism) of invading tyrant Putin …..

Your posts are increasingly deranged so not worth responding to positively ….. except as entertainment & to easily unravel & conclude  “not worth further response“

So very few are buying what evil pro- tyranny propaganda you’re peddling so why not just stop and disappear to get deprogrammed from your formative Marxist professor / SVR twisted input ? 

[oldschooler]

25 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

You're right - the irrational Ukraine frenzy is a good illustration of the power the mass media has to whip people up into hysterics, about whatever cause is the distraction of the day. A bit like the two-minute hate in Orwell's 1984.

Right about what ? Irrational how ? Only Tyranny is reminiscent of Orwell.

Piles of innocent dead Ukrainians might well induce frenzy & hysterics, especially in their families & friends.

What are your positive analyses & conclusions then ?

[dbrenn]

9 minutes ago, Transam said:

Not for me, it's watching vids of Ukraine civilians laying dead in the street....

What about civilians lying dead in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya or Yemen then? Why the outrage over just one place, but not others? That's the irrational part.

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

And the attempts to silence anyone sending a message at odds with the Ukrainian propaganda recycled as news continues. If you are not staunchly pro Ukraine then you are definitely pro Russia, with us or against us! An outside observer would think some of the people in this thread were fighting this war. Look at the the map and ask yourself who is winning the war to control Donbas because that is what this war is about - the Donbas region.

Donbass is only significant in the eyes of Czar Putin. The Ukrainians will happily trade small loses of terrain for the lives of Czar Putins thugs. Every mile Russia gains of strategically worthless territory means a mile longer for supply lines which, as we have all seen, remain Russias Achilles heal.

What Russian commanders will be far more worried about is Kherson but Czar Putin demands Donbass takes priority. This is a mistake.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 31 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org) 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

it was always about the Nazis! Mariupol was an Azov stronghold, most of the south was. They’ve been evacuated successfully. A land bridge from Crimea thru Nazi Town and on to save the embattled brothers in the Donbas? He has gone a bit overboard with the Kharkiv thing. We will see if/when Donbas falls. As I have said before, if it was up to me and a certain German chancellor, I’d say “Here. Take the Donbas and piss off.”

We are fully aware of your enthusiasm for appeasement.  

[Cabra]

Rumours continue about Putin’s health – with little to back them up. At 69 years old there is no surprise he might not be in top health. Honestly, the best thing to end this conflict might be if he dies soon

[Fester]

7 minutes ago, Cabra said:

Rumours continue about Putin’s health – with little to back them up. At 69 years old there is no surprise he might not be in top health. Honestly, the best thing to end this conflict might be if he dies soon

Might?

[Cabra]

2 minutes ago, Fester said:

Might?

Assuming his chief lieutenants and others in his circle are not also hellbent on continued war with Ukraine. Who can know with certainty. 

[Fanta]

18 minutes ago, Cabra said:

Rumours continue about Putin’s health – with little to back them up. At 69 years old there is no surprise he might not be in top health. Honestly, the best thing to end this conflict might be if he dies soon

How do you prove something is not true? Putin is seen daily on Russian TV and any apparent signs of illness would go viral. MI6 claim that he might be dead and a body double is being used. The timing of all these claims make them seem less than credible.

 

[Cabra]

27 minutes ago, Fanta said:

How do you prove something is not true? Putin is seen daily on Russian TV and any apparent signs of illness would go viral. MI6 claim that he might be dead and a body double is being used. The timing of all these claims make them seem less than credible.

Can't prove a negative necessarily. Proof he is actually sick would squash any rumors. In the mean time, there is only hope something happens to end this war. 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, dbrenn said:

What about civilians lying dead in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya or Yemen then? Why the outrage over just one place, but not others? That's the irrational part.

Incredibly Naive. Nothing Irrational here except that! Ukraine forms a major flat plain invasion route from a nuclear armed belligerent Russia to Civilized Europe. An Existential Threat long recognized & guarded by NATO. Wars in those other places were justly made by West against EVIL Murderous Regimes,not offering such large threat, BUT invading peaceful countries & killing their own people in droves ….. like Russia is doing in fact. West never targets Innocents. Those mentioned cultures & nations always do.

Get Real, Learn History, Accept Unintended War Deaths & How to differentiate & deal with Evil. 

[oldschooler]

3 minutes ago, Cabra said:

Can't prove a negative necessarily. Proof he is actually sick would squash any rumors. In the mean time, there is only hope something happens to end this war. 

Putin Dying Painfully Tomorrow would be a good start

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Fester said:

Might?

Let’s find out ……after Putin Dies…. Quickly Now…..

[EdwardV]

3 hours ago, dbrenn said:

What about civilians lying dead in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya or Yemen then? Why the outrage over just one place, but not others? That's the irrational part.

Classic whataboutism. Attempting to justify current bad actions by pointing out completely unrelated bad actions by others. As if that gives Russia a free pass to murder, loot and rape. Really this is the best you can do?