News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Fanta]

18 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Really? Are you going to try and claim Russia didn’t try to take Kyiv next? Of course Russia tried to take Kharkiv, you don’t commit that many troops to not take an objective. Lobbing a few shells doesn’t automatically make it an artillery battle. In Donbas yes, Kharkiv not so much. Battle would imply an objective to occupy. That’s not what Russia is doing in Kharkiv. 

Do you have a link about the Russian troop numbers deployed outside Kharkiv? 
Lots of Ukrainian troops were sent there and consequently could not be sent to reinforce Donbas. The Russians “pounded” Kharkiv for weeks but didn’t move in. 

[vlad]

1 hour ago, Guphz said:

Take a look at your own map. It shows Russia pushed back to the east. Retreated and defeated everywhere else.

You think BBC News should be taken with a pinch of salt Haw-Haw but you're happy to post verification items from their sources there's a word for people like you but I won't post it here.

[vlad]

1 hour ago, Guphz said:

You seem to have forgotten that Russia was pushed back from the rest of Ukraine. Their gains are extremely small compared to the sacrifices they had to make and the losses they had to take.

Russia is indeed losing massive amounts of troops and equipment, and the problem is that they can't easily replace them because not only would they have to actually declare war, but it also takes time to train new troops.

Fighting in urban areas is perfectly legitimate. Turning entire cities into rubble is not. But Russian forces are so amateurish and inept that they keep being destroyed in direct combat.

They shat themselves thinking they might have to fight hand to hand combat in the tunnels and cellars of the steelworks Guphz and they didn't have the skill and bottle to enter. What's the line " Pay peanuts you'll get Monkeys "

[Fanta]

40 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Do you have a link about the Russian troop numbers deployed outside Kharkiv? 

Closest I could find. Lots of shelling, a few probes but that’s about it. No casualty numbers available for Russians. Big battle? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kharkiv_(2022)

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

So we can agree that the Russian losses aren’t as large as MSM claims?

Depends on what that claim is, wouldn’t you say? As you correctly point out, that number is all over the place. Clearly the Russian number is absurd. And the Ukrainian claim is no doubt too high. So what is the number of KIA? 20K? 15K, 10K? We can only guess. 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Do you have a link about the Russian troop numbers deployed outside Kharkiv? 
Lots of Ukrainian troops were sent there and consequently could not be sent to reinforce Donbas. The Russians “pounded” Kharkiv for weeks but didn’t move in. 

It’s not like they didn’t try and take Kharkiv. They fact they couldn’t enter the city wasn’t for lack of trying. The very fact you point out lots of troops were sent there and couldn’t be to Donbas (the actual objective hahaha), argues against your point. 
 

If Donbas was the actual objective day one, the Russians sure do have a funny way of progressing a war. Nothing like blowing out some 20% of your total force on a feint. 

[Fester]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take. It was/is an artillery battle. The Russians are still there In Ukrainian territory that is controlled by Russia. See the color scale for who controls what….. 
Also see the red arrows. And the purple ones? Guess which is who. And they are going to Donbas. 


Retreated and defeated? I wouldn’t say the Ukrainians are defeated. One side is advancing and one side is retreating. Guess which is which? 

 Kharkiv which they never tried to take

[EdwardV]

Flakpanzers on the way (well in july):

Ukraine will receive 15 anti-aircraft "Gepard" tanks from Germany in July, a German Defense Ministry spokesperson said Friday. Included with the arms delivery will be training support by the German Armed Forces and the provision of nearly 60,000 rounds of ammunition, Germany's dpa news agency reported. The tank would be especially useful for Ukrainian forces, as it was designed to counter armored attack helicopters, such as the Soviet-Russian Mil Mi-24.

https://amp.dw.com/en/germany-to-deliver-15-gepard-tanks-to-ukraine-in-july/a-61880311

The last I read Germany is planning to give Ukraine about 50 of them. Since they need to be refurbished prior to delivery, it makes sense to deliver them in small batches. Of course the troops need to still be trained, hence the July date.

The Flakpanzers help (massively) fill an important need. The airspace near the front line is soon to get very dangerous for low flying aircraft. Now the west just needs to figure out how to get Ukraine more mid level anti aircraft missiles. I’m hearing some rumors of a Norwegian system being offered. 

 

 

 

[Guphz]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take.

Ah yes. It was just a feint! Another one! Just like the massive troop movement towards Kyiv! And the riot police being deployed to Kyiv because they expected the capital to fall within a couple of days or less!

Quote

 

It was/is an artillery battle. The Russians are still there In Ukrainian territory that is controlled by Russia. See the color scale for who controls what….. 

 

Look, you are just going on about irrelevant things. The fact is that Russia has been pushed back all over Ukraine. They have lost an insane amount of troops and equipment for the small gains that they do have.

[Guphz]

3 hours ago, Fanta said:

lol.. look at a map. The rest of your post … Why do you bother? If I want to hear about how incompetent the Russian occupiers are and how it is all just an indiscriminate attack targeting civilians I will search out the latest Zelenskyy video on MSM. You probably think the Avosteel fighters were evacuated and will soon be home in prisoner exchange with a ticker tape parade. Unless you have an opinion of your own or some facts and can discuss them without regurgitating propaganda don’t bother. 

So you are denying that they were attacking Kyiv? Indeed, TikTok model Kadyrov was threatening Kyiv to surrender because Kadyrovites would enter the city in a few hours! That was a couple of days into the war.

I have no idea what you are talking about regarding the Azovstal fighters.

[Fanta]

6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

If Donbas was the actual objective day one, the Russians sure do have a funny way of progressing a war. Nothing like blowing out some 20% of your total force on a feint

meh …. Donbas was always the stated objective. Taking Kyiv would have potentially neutered Ukraine’s forces and definitely interfered with the photoshoots. Go for the head shot but if that is too well defended go for the body. It is basic Mortal Kombat strategy. The countless hours I spent on video games were a worthy investment.

[Fanta]

 

“Moscow will consider exchanging prisoners from Ukraine’s Azov battalion for Viktor Medvedchuk, a wealthy Ukrainian businessman close to President Vladimir Putin, a Russian negotiator has said. 
“We are going to study the possibility,” said Leonid Slutsky, a senior member of Russia’s negotiating team on Ukraine, the RIA Novosti news agency reported. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/21/russia-ukraine-live-news-moscow-intensifies-push-for-donbas 

Anyone want to take a bet on this happening? The only exchange will be for permanently unfit for combat POWs from Mariupol and Ukraine will be lucky to get even that. 

 

[Fanta]

7 hours ago, EdwardV said:

The very fact you point out lots of troops were sent there and couldn’t be to Donbas (the actual objective hahaha), argues against your point. 

Hahaha indeed. I said lots of Ukrainian troops were sent to Kharkiv. Donbas is heavily dug in with serious defensive positions - that is why the Russians are throwing shells and not charging the trenches. If the Russians were serious about capturing Kharkiv (the 2nd biggest city in Ukraine) they would have flattened it before moving in. They didn’t. imo, it was a fixing move by the Russians not a serious offensive move. The lack of Ukrainian supplied happy snaps of burned out Russian tanks & mounds of dead Russian soldiers says as much. 

[Fanta]

Off topic post but an article from The Guardian made me do it!

Katerina Tikhonova Is Putin’s youngest daughter. Apparently she as a 2+ year old daughter with the former director of the Munich state ballet. Her partners’ name? Igor Zelensky

Will Putin’s daughter become Mrs Zelensky? 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/19/putins-daughter-flew-to-munich-more-than-50-times-investigation-suggests

[Fester]

10 hours ago, Fanta said:

meh …. Donbas was always the stated objective. Taking Kyiv would have potentially neutered Ukraine’s forces and definitely interfered with the photoshoots. Go for the head shot but if that is too well defended go for the body. It is basic Mortal Kombat strategy. The countless hours I spent on video games were a worthy investment.

We can all see how well your time was spent. 

[Fester]

10 hours ago, Fanta said:

Hahaha indeed. I said lots of Ukrainian troops were sent to Kharkiv. Donbas is heavily dug in with serious defensive positions - that is why the Russians are throwing shells and not charging the trenches. If the Russians were serious about capturing Kharkiv (the 2nd biggest city in Ukraine) they would have flattened it before moving in. They didn’t. imo, it was a fixing move by the Russians not a serious offensive move. The lack of Ukrainian supplied happy snaps of burned out Russian tanks & mounds of dead Russian soldiers says as much. 

A real treat having someone so "in the know" on this forum. 

[Fester]

6 hours ago, Transam said:

I wonder what the Russian supporters here will comment on this, I wait to see what soda pop says....

https://www.yahoo.com/news/evidence-shows-russian-soldiers-executed-141908975.html

Yes. Disgusting. And it looks like much more of this to come out.

[Fester]

6 hours ago, Fanta said:

Off topic post but an article from The Guardian made me do it!

Katerina Tikhonova Is Putin’s youngest daughter. Apparently she as a 2+ year old daughter with the former director of the Munich state ballet. Her partners’ name? Igor Zelensky

Will Putin’s daughter become Mrs Zelensky? 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/19/putins-daughter-flew-to-munich-more-than-50-times-investigation-suggests

Hopefully she'll become officially fatherless.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Transam said:

Not one Russian supporter here has commented on my very creditable link, except  JohnC, gave me a sad, now come on JC, you're a Russian aggression supporter, what are your thoughts, your chums have ignored it, go for it..

https://www.yahoo.com/news/evidence-shows-russian-soldiers-executed-141908975.html

You know why I give you a sad as I've told you before

Can't repeat it again as I'll get into trouble again when you go running to the mods crying again

Haven't even read the link 

[KaptainRob]

Off-topic and personal comments removed.  Refer FG's please and abide by Rule 3 or sanctions may be applied.

[EdwardV]

15 hours ago, Fanta said:

If the Russians were serious about capturing Kharkiv (the 2nd biggest city in Ukraine) they would have flattened it before moving in. They didn’t. imo, it was a fixing move by the Russians not a serious offensive move.

Revisionist history. When Russia first moved against Kharkiv, they hadn’t switched to the flatten city method. However once they did, they started to flatten Kharkiv. Problem is Kharkiv isn’t a small town and Russia found themselves overextended. Hence why they retreated from their northern objectives. 
 

fixing move? The first guards tank army was the unit to attack Kharkiv. Russia’s most elite and best equipped unit. You throw that against a main objective, not to be used in a fixing maneuver. In return it was crewed up so badly it’s commander was sacked. 

[Fanta]

53 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Revisionist history.

Amerikrainian history. Wikipedia doesn’t say much so I’m defenseless against your NATO inspired propaganda  

Luhansk is 90% lost and “the situation remains difficult” (Zelenskky’s speak for we’re screwed) Zelenskyy is saying diplomacy is the answer and absolutely positively, no way will Ukraine cede territory to Russia so does that means he is pencilling a new and improved, low maintenance, more compact Ukraine onto his maps?

[Rookiescot]

20 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Amerikrainian history. Wikipedia doesn’t say much so I’m defenseless against your NATO inspired propaganda  

Luhansk is 90% lost and “the situation remains difficult” (Zelenskky’s speak for we’re screwed) Zelenskyy is saying diplomacy is the answer and absolutely positively, no way will Ukraine cede territory to Russia so does that means he is pencilling a new and improved, low maintenance, more compact Ukraine onto his maps?

No it means exactly what he said. It does not matter how long it takes the Ukraine to eject Czar Putins thugs from its soil. Time is on the Ukraines side. Russian forces are simply not advancing fast enough.

Czar Putins forces are nearing the high water mark of their illegal invasion. The Ukraine now has artillery which by far out ranges anything Russia can field. They now have drones, anti tank and anti aircraft systems Czar Putin can only dream of. Ukrainian moral is high Russias is in the gutter.

Czar Putins thugs are about to get put through the meat grinder. The Ukrainians have already come through theirs. Will the Russians be able to endure the same? I suspect not.

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Zelenskyy is saying diplomacy is the answer and absolutely positively, no way will Ukraine cede territory to Russia so does that means he is pencilling a new and improved, low maintenance, more compact Ukraine onto his maps?

No, what that means is Ukraine doesn’t feel the need to negotiate on Russia’s terms. The war isn’t going well for Russia. They are forced to drastically lower their scope in Donbas , they have been run out of Kyiv and Kharkiv. And they are digging in on the east side of the river in the south (while still occupying part of the west side). Says a lot and none of it good for Russia. By June it’s expected Ukraine will go on the offensive in the south. 

[NorskTiger]

I just don't get it. Russia is apparantly losing and losing and losing. Ukrainean army is soon in Jekatrinaburg and Putin has stage 6 "blood cancer".

  And still I still with the impression that the momentum is still going only one way. Yes, Russia has never had a history of Rommel Blitzkrieg, but it DOES have a history of inevitable victory. 

     Let the maps speak for themselves. Otherwise, we shall agree that the information war is also a fight. 

*Ukrainian volunteers in the east feel abandoned as Russia advances - The Washington Post

  This is Langley Times and when they are sending out something like this, is it a test case of how to break news slowly, or merely more victorious Ukrainean army advances?

      According to the same newspaper, Ukrainean army is not "ruling out" a retreat from Severodonetsk. 

*Is Russia Winning the War in Ukraine? (evenpolitics.com)

Of course, we have THIS as well. From another CIA-controlled outlet. 

    OPINION: Is China winning the Ukraine war? (yahoo.com)

 

  *** I don't think Zelensky is any more in control of this now than he was a month ago. At the same time, it appears clear the Russians are now switching to more use of standoff-weapons and will not be goaded into any frontal assaults with troops. I guess they have learned from USA how to bomb things to smitherins instead.   What is Zelensy's options at this point? I think all he can do is ride it out and let the inevitable evacuation of himself and family happen when time is up. He is likely to have a different fate than Saddam and Ghaddaffi. I see a Caribbean villa or two with life long (or as long as useful) armed guards and a credit card wtih free tap-in to US feds.***

   The above piece was written by myself, so I am the direct source here.