News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Fester]

10 hours ago, Fanta said:

Interesting theory - was the  Moskva really sunk by Harpoons… Maybe it was really hit by mines? No images of the impact areas on the frigate, the missiles launched, drone footage to prove Ukraine’s claim. Plus the claim that the frigate was hit because it was distracted by a drone seems unlikely. Missiles would be coming in simultaneously from many directions during an attempt to sink a ship. Every other Russian ship we have seen hit has been accompanied by footage with a funky soundtrack. Either an own goal for Russia or Ukraine mines did the damage but that must be denied because it doesn’t match the Kyiv narrative that the Russians have mined the waters.

Maybe it was hit by mines but that is very unlikely so far offshore . No vdo's from drones because no drones around there for same reason. Missiles would not be incoming from "many directions" because there were only two of them! 

[EdwardV]

6 hours ago, Fanta said:

Looks like the blockade will be cleared via military means. Isn’t that a surprise! Of course, no US Intelligence will be involved with this either effort.  lol

It's an option, personally I don't think it's a great one but it might work. You could easily drive the Russian naval ships back, but I don't think that really opens up the blockade. It still comes down to are the Russians willing to snatch up ships in international waters or shoot at them if needed. I think both answers to that are yes. Now if you could pick off a few of those Russian frigates, it makes going though the exercise worth it. 

Unsurprisingly Ukraine is asking for more long distance weapons than just the anti-ship missiles: 

 

Pelosi and Crow relayed Zelenskyy’s weapon requests to Biden and Defense Department officials during a meeting at the White House last week. Crow said multiple launch rocket systems would help defend major Ukrainian metropolitan centers from Russian advances while bolstering offensive operations in Donbas and Luhansk. He also noted Zelenskyy has asked for “more sophisticated intelligence and surveillance drones as well as attack drones that can be reused multiple times instead of the Kamikaze drones we’ve given them.”

Here are the high-end weapons Zelenskyy hopes the new Ukraine aid bill will provide (yahoo.com)

They specifically want US made MLRS rocket systems. Either the US tracked M270 or wheeled M142, pretty sure they are not too picky on either one. The US has been hesitant of late because they are afraid Ukraine will use them to hit targets inside Russia and widen the war. However I have a feeling they will get them (had thought they already did, but I guess not) as they are excellent long range weapon systems. Exactly what Ukraine needs. They also want Reaper and Predator drones. Of course the problem is the same as above. It will be interesting to see if Ukraine gets Harpoon or Navel Strike Missile. The reason being, with the NSM it actually has the ability to hit ships docked in Sevastopol (read subs!). 

 

 

[vlad]

I worked all my life building Naval ships both surface and Nuke subs my apprenticeship was served on HMS Invincible I finished on Astute-class Nukes. I can assure you once water enters a vessel in a hull breach like a Combat ship unless they can pump out enough the ship will capsize or simply sink. Watertight doors or bulkheads will not prevent the inevitable once a ship is struck by a missile even if it is hit above the waterline. The firefighting water will cause a list that will cause the vessel to list over once the water goes into the hole that the missile made its over. The Moskva suffered this fate they had enough time to abandon it but some will have been killed in the missile strike.

[EdwardV]

In a sign of Russian desperation: 

In a sign of Russia's urgent need to bolster its war effort in Ukraine, parliament said on Friday it would consider a bill to allow Russians over 40 and foreigners over 30 to sign up for the military.

Russia has suffered huge setbacks and heavy losses of men and equipment in the 86-day-old war, in which Ukraine has mobilised practically its entire adult male population. Despite taking full control of the ruins of Mariupol, Moscow remains far from its objective of seizing all of the Donbas region of eastern Ukraine. "Clearly, the Russians are in trouble. This is the latest attempt to address manpower shortages without alarming their own population. But it is growing increasingly difficult for the Kremlin to disguise their failures in Ukraine," said retired U.S. General Ben Hodges, a former commander of U.S. Army forces in Europe. Jack Watling, a land warfare specialist at the British security and defence think tank RUSI, said the Russian military was running short of infantry.

Struggling in Ukraine, Russia paves way to sign up over-40s for army | Reuters

Actually I think it's a good plan. Just that it's not a quick fix and it's to be seen how successful they will be in convincing people to join when it's already not going well. Regardless, they are at best playing at the margins over a much bigger problem. 

[Fanta]

4 hours ago, EdwardV said:

In a sign of Russia's urgent need to bolster its war effort in Ukraine, parliament said on Friday it would consider a bill to allow Russians over 40 and foreigners over 30 to sign up for the military

Apparently Russia are forming new divisions in the west.

 

“In a speech, Mr Shoigu also said the United States had stepped up strategic bomber flights in recent years, sent warships to the Baltic Sea and intensified training exercises in the region with its NATO partners.

He said Russia would respond by forming new military units and divisions along its western border, and it was working to improve the combat strength of its troops.

“By the end of the year, 12 military units and divisions will be established in the western military district," he said.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-21/russia-says-troops-close-to-controlling-luhansk-ukraine/101086918

If Russia needs more soldiers at the Ukrainian front (I like that term) why not just call up the reserves?

 

[EdwardV]

17 minutes ago, Fanta said:

If Russia needs more soldiers at the Ukrainian front (I like that term) why not just call up the reserves?

That gets back to the article I posted last week about the difficulty Russia has in calling up reserves. They don't run a system like the West which has a ready reserve of semi-trained troops. It's more of just a list of names with people who has served in the last 10 years. However I completely agree, why not just call some of them up? So what if it's hard, just do it and start the process. There has to be some type of domestic reason???  

[Fanta]

Mariupol has been completely “liberated”

The full abandonment of the bunkers and tunnels of the bombed-out plant by the Azov Regiment means an end to the most destructive siege of a war that began when Russia invaded Ukraine nearly three months ago

Russia’s state news agency RIA Novosti has quoted the country’s defence ministry as saying a total of 2,439 Ukrainian fighters who had been holed up at Mariupol’s steel plant had surrendered since Monday, including more than 500 on Friday.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-remaining-531-azovstal-defenders-surrender-steelworks-siege-over-2022-05-20/

[EdwardV]

The United Kingdom has completely lifted all of the restrictions on the export of defence products to Turkey that were brought in following Ankara's 2019 offensive on northeast Syria, Turkey’s chief defence industry officer Ismail Demir said on Friday. 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/uk-turkey-defence-exports-restrictions-lifted
 

Sounds like Finland to me 

[Fanta]

51 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The United Kingdom has completely lifted all of the restrictions on the export of defence products to Turkey that were brought in following Ankara's 2019 offensive on northeast Syria, Turkey’s chief defence industry officer Ismail Demir said on Friday. 

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/uk-turkey-defence-exports-restrictions-lifted
 

Sounds like Finland to me 

Look like the US will have to “contribute” for Turkey’s approval for Sweden’s bid  ;-)

“In response, the U.S. kicked Ankara out of the F-35 program and slapped sanctions on the Turkish defense industry.

After that spat, Turkey began toying with the idea of buying Russian fighter jets and even developing its own program. However, it is also seeking to both upgrade its F-16 fleet and purchase new F-16 planes. The request has been pending for months with the Biden administration and U.S. Congress. “
https://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-nato-sweden-and-finland-membership-tayyip-erdogan/

 

[Vigo]

On 5/6/2022 at 2:31 PM, NorskTiger said:

Nobody can make "unbiased" polls quicker than Western media and the ango internet trolls who know nothing. 

      The Anglo-Americans are simply very stupid people and have (for the most) always been. 

And yet proportionally more of the most important scientific advances in the past 2 centuries  have come from "Anglo- American" nations. For such stupid people, much of the world is willing to go to elaborate  process to make entry, whether it is Arabs and Africans crossing channel, or the millions who try to enter USA  every year.  Why don't these people go to your beloved Russia or China or Egypt?   Making generalizations like you do serves no purpose. 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

“In response, the U.S. kicked Ankara out of the F-35 program and slapped sanctions on the Turkish defense industry.

After that spat, Turkey began toying with the idea of buying Russian fighter jets and even developing its own program. However, it is also seeking to both upgrade its F-16 fleet and purchase new F-16 planes.

I highly doubt Turkey is allowed F-35s, not as long as they keep the S-400 Russian air defense system. However the F-16 are a lock. 

[vlad]

So after over 2 Months of continually shelling and Bombardment from Russian forces the last fighters of the Azovstal Steel plant have surrendered to Russian forces. A victory claimed by Russia this is what liberation means in Russia completely flatten a city making it unhabitable kill thousands your supposed to be liberating and then celebrate a victory well done.

[Fanta]

11 hours ago, EdwardV said:

However I completely agree, why not just call some of them up?

Maybe because Russia doesn’t need them? If Russia was losing as many troops as is claimed, necessity would dictate a call up. Russia had added 12,000 or so to replace claimed losses of 40,000+. That makes no sense. Russia has maybe 200,000 deployed and Ukraine has probably 2 or 3 times that amount. And for such a demoralized, poorly trained & equipped, disastrously led rabble of an army getting thoroughly smashed they sure have taken a lot of ground. This map shows just the Donbas region. Add in that all the other occupied area across the entire front need to be secured with troops stationed there and Russian forces must be running razor thin across the front IF the MSM claims are believed. 

btw: Someone needs to show Brigadier Barry the script of Russia indiscriminately targeting civilians as his statement below shows he hasn’t seen it. 

“However, he says Ukraine will still be able to use urban areas in the Donbas to slow down Russia's advances. Fighting in town and cities, as has been shown throughout this war, favours the defender.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524175 

 

[Guphz]

On 4/23/2022 at 3:55 PM, NorskTiger said:

HAHA, "NATO protects against Evil".. I think there are many thousands or HUNDREDS of thousands of relatives of dead people who may disagree with you. Yes, yes, Putin is a "psychopath". Such an easy way and simle world view. If Putin dies all Russia surrenders and they will do whatever CIA/Washington DC says, LOLLOL.

Yes, NATO protects against evil. That is a simple fact. And no, taking out Putin would not necessarily solve all problems. But it would lead to some kind of change.

Quote

Ukraine is my business as long as my country is taking part in this war.

Then you should stop spreading misinformation about it. It seems you are fine with Russian imperialism and genocide, but not with helping Ukraine defend itself.  

 

On 4/23/2022 at 3:59 PM, NorskTiger said:

      And a legitimately elected leader was toppled. It matters little how it happened. This is a typical recipe if it is difficult to win an election. Also, the division in Ukraine really got off after that. 

      "The people" were not rising up. It was mob rule that took over. And there was no democratic process, which the West is always so proud of. 

This is false. He was indeed elected, but turned against the will of the people, causing unrest and protests. He then started killing protesters, and it all culminated in him running away and new elections being held. Democratic elections.

It was indeed the people rising up. Protests are not "mob rule". But it seems that you are taking the Russian position that protests are unacceptable.

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Guphz

[Guphz]

On 4/23/2022 at 10:18 PM, Fanta said:

A forum rule is that, within reason, if you state something as a fact then you need to supply a credible source for verification. The Russian are advancing not retreating. The 2nd map shows the direction of forces. 
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
 

Take a look at your own map. It shows Russia pushed back to the east. Retreated and defeated everywhere else.

[Guphz]

On 4/25/2022 at 12:56 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Your a mind controlled robot who has no critical thinking skills, let alone any real-world experience. I lived there, worked there and have many colleagues and friends there... Unlike you, I have real-world on the ground experience. You TV critics have not the slightest idea what is actually going on there... You're a typical Statist... 

I'm not sure what your point is. Living somewhere does not automatically give you insight. As you can see from the many Russians who are brainwashed by their own government.

The fact is that it was the people rising up against an increasingly unpopular president.

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

Maybe because Russia doesn’t need them? If Russia was losing as many troops as is claimed, necessity would dictate a call up. Russia had added 12,000 or so to replace claimed losses of 40,000+. That makes no sense. Russia has maybe 200,000 deployed and Ukraine has probably 2 or 3 times that amount. And for such a demoralized, poorly trained & equipped, disastrously led rabble of an army getting thoroughly smashed they sure have taken a lot of ground. This map shows just the Donbas region. Add in that all the other occupied area across the entire front need to be secured with troops stationed there and Russian forces must be running razor thin across the front IF the MSM claims are believed. 

btw: Someone needs to show Brigadier Barry the script of Russia indiscriminately targeting civilians as his statement below shows he hasn’t seen it. 

“However, he says Ukraine will still be able to use urban areas in the Donbas to slow down Russia's advances. Fighting in town and cities, as has been shown throughout this war, favours the defender.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524175 

After 3 months of war this is all the mighty Russian bear has managed?

Western armies would have managed that in the first 48 hours.

[Guphz]

4 hours ago, Fanta said:

Maybe because Russia doesn’t need them? If Russia was losing as many troops as is claimed, necessity would dictate a call up. Russia had added 12,000 or so to replace claimed losses of 40,000+. That makes no sense. Russia has maybe 200,000 deployed and Ukraine has probably 2 or 3 times that amount. And for such a demoralized, poorly trained & equipped, disastrously led rabble of an army getting thoroughly smashed they sure have taken a lot of ground. This map shows just the Donbas region. Add in that all the other occupied area across the entire front need to be secured with troops stationed there and Russian forces must be running razor thin across the front IF the MSM claims are believed.

You seem to have forgotten that Russia was pushed back from the rest of Ukraine. Their gains are extremely small compared to the sacrifices they had to make and the losses they had to take.

Russia is indeed losing massive amounts of troops and equipment, and the problem is that they can't easily replace them because not only would they have to actually declare war, but it also takes time to train new troops.

Quote

 

btw: Someone needs to show Brigadier Barry the script of Russia indiscriminately targeting civilians as his statement below shows he hasn’t seen it. 

“However, he says Ukraine will still be able to use urban areas in the Donbas to slow down Russia's advances. Fighting in town and cities, as has been shown throughout this war, favours the defender.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524175 

 

Fighting in urban areas is perfectly legitimate. Turning entire cities into rubble is not. But Russian forces are so amateurish and inept that they keep being destroyed in direct combat.

 

[Fanta]

5 minutes ago, Guphz said:

Take a look at your own map. It shows Russia pushed back to the east. Retreated and defeated everywhere else.

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take. It was/is an artillery battle. The Russians are still there In Ukrainian territory that is controlled by Russia. See the color scale for who controls what….. 
Also see the red arrows. And the purple ones? Guess which is who. And they are going to Donbas. 


Retreated and defeated? I wouldn’t say the Ukrainians are defeated. One side is advancing and one side is retreating. Guess which is which? 

[Fanta]

46 minutes ago, Guphz said:

You seem to have forgotten that Russia was pushed back from the rest of Ukraine.

lol.. look at a map. The rest of your post … Why do you bother? If I want to hear about how incompetent the Russian occupiers are and how it is all just an indiscriminate attack targeting civilians I will search out the latest Zelenskyy video on MSM. You probably think the Avosteel fighters were evacuated and will soon be home in prisoner exchange with a ticker tape parade. Unless you have an opinion of your own or some facts and can discuss them without regurgitating propaganda don’t bother. 

 

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take. It was/is an artillery battle. The Russians are still there In Ukrainian territory that is controlled by Russia. See the color scale for who controls what….. 
Also see the red arrows. And the purple ones? Guess which is who. And they are going to Donbas. 


Retreated and defeated? I wouldn’t say the Ukrainians are defeated. One side is advancing and one side is retreating. Guess which is which? 

They never tried to take Kyiv?

You have been quoting this same map for weeks. Where are the massive territorial gains the Czar Putin thugs are taking? This was stuff they took early on. Now they have run out of steam. Poor resupply and leadership. Very low moral. No clear goals. Just throwing troops into a meat grinder with no care.

Its all going wrong. 

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, Fanta said:

lol.. look at a map. The rest of your post … Why do you bother? If I want to hear about how incompetent the Russian occupiers are and how it is all just an indiscriminate attack targeting civilians I will search out the latest Zelenskyy video on MSM. You probably think the Avosteel fighters were evacuated and will soon be home in prisoner exchange with a ticker tape parade. Unless you have an opinion of your own or some facts and can discuss them without regurgitating propaganda don’t bother. 

Three months and you finally took Mariupol. Three months!

Its all going wrong aint it Fanta.

[EdwardV]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

Maybe because Russia doesn’t need them? If Russia was losing as many troops as is claimed, necessity would dictate a call up. Russia had added 12,000 or so to replace claimed losses of 40,000+.

Depends on what Russia’s objective is at the current time. They went from attacking across the entire Ukrainian from Kyiv to Odesa. Now it’s just a small part of Donbas. Keeping in mind as the attacker they can concentrate their forces at the point of attack. You need a lot less troops to do what Russia is now trying. So yes if you stop attacking on most of the front, you need a lot less troops. 

[EdwardV]

35 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Pushed back from the outskirts of Kharkiv which they never tried to take. It was/is an artillery battle.

Really? Are you going to try and claim Russia didn’t try to take Kyiv next? Of course Russia tried to take Kharkiv, you don’t commit that many troops to not take an objective. Lobbing a few shells doesn’t automatically make it an artillery battle. In Donbas yes, Kharkiv not so much. Battle would imply an objective to occupy. That’s not what Russia is doing in Kharkiv. 

[Fanta]

7 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Depends on what Russia’s objective is at the current time

Kyiv was the main initial objective but that fell flat on it’s face. The Russian’s stated objective has always been Donbas. Taking the land bridge from Crimea to Donbas was necessary. Odessa has yet to be the focus of a sustained Russian assault. And Russia still needs to hold and defend any taken territory and that requires substantial troop numbers on a 300+ km front. I don’t know if Russia ever had enough forces to advance in a line from the south East to sweep up through Ukraine. History says not but was that actually it’s plan of attack? So we can agree that the Russian losses aren’t as large as MSM claims?