News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Alavan]

14 hours ago, Fanta said:

Why would Russia lay the mines if Ukraine had no ships?

Economic blockade?

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Alavan said:

Economic blockade?

That's what I say too. I get there is some logic to the idea Ukraine might have placed the mines, it's a low cost defense against a Russian landing. However you have to lay a lot of mines over a very large area for it to be effective. In the process they destroy their economy. Doesn't make sense in the bigger picture. Never mind they don't have the ships to lay mines after day one. Keep in mind it was Russia who sent out the naval warning of mines after the start of the war. Just them being a nice guy maybe? However it also tells all ships to stay away from Ukraine too. Makes a blockage so much easier. It's also interesting Russia didn't seem to have much problem sailing around Ukraine waters. They spent a lot of time shelling the coastal area early in the war. Almost makes you think they weren't afraid of running into a mine, like they almost knew where they were all located. That is until Ukraine decided they liked turning Russian surface ships into submarines. 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Alavan said:

Economic blockade?

The Russian warships are already blockading the ports. Why bother with mines? 

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The Russian warships are already blockading the ports. Why bother with mines? 

Because the Russian navy does not want to be patrolling close to the coast because they have mysterious fires occasionally. 

BTW have you now accepted the Moscow was sunk or are you still claiming it was simply a case of poor source of ignition control?

[EdwardV]

15 hours ago, Fanta said:

In other news: 
“Russia on Wednesday said it was using a new generation of powerful lasers in Ukraine to burn up drones, deploying some of Moscow's secret weapons to counter a flood of Western arms.”

Zelenskky, as usual didn’t have a good thing to say about the Russians and called the lasers wonder weapons.

 

However, an official with the US Department of Defense said he had not seen "anything to corroborate reports of lasers being used" in Ukraine. Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky mocked the Russian claim, comparing it to the so-called "wonder weapons" that Nazi Germany claimed to be developing during World War Two. "The clearer it became that they had no chance in the war, the more propaganda there was about an amazing weapon that would be so powerful as to ensure a turning point," he said in a video address. "And so we see that in the third month of a full-scale war, Russia is trying to find its 'wonder weapon'... this all clearly shows the complete failure of the mission."

 

But missile defence expert Dr Uzi Rubin from the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security (JISS) said laser weapon technology would not alter the balance of power on the battlefield in Ukraine. "Zelensky is right - it's no wonder weapon," he told the BBC. "It took them several seconds to shoot the UAV down. There are much better ways to do it, to use a Stinger or any anti-aircraft missile would have been cheaper, faster and longer range." Lasers work by sending out a beam of infrared light that heats up its target until it combusts. Dr Rubin said the power of even advanced laser weapons was still too weak to make a significant difference on the battlefield, and such weapons had a low "kill rate". "It's not like in Star Wars where they point a laser gun at the bad guys and quickly push a button and the bad guy explodes. In reality, it's more like a mere microwave oven. If you want to make a cup of water boil it takes some time. The laser is the same. You need to put it on the target and wait until it heats up and destroys it," he said.

Russia's laser weapon claim derided as propaganda (msn.com)

 

 

 

[IneptoCracy]

Here is a wonderful tweet picture from the Ukrainian side of things. Somebody must have ordered the regulars to transport the thing very gently, so they put it into an ambulance...

Edited May 19, 2022 by IneptoCracy

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

The Russian warships are already blockading the ports. Why bother with mines? 

it is a lot cheaper

[Alavan]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

That's what I say too. I get there is some logic to the idea Ukraine might have placed the mines, it's a low cost defense against a Russian landing. However you have to lay a lot of mines over a very large area for it to be effective. In the process they destroy their economy. Doesn't make sense in the bigger picture. Never mind they don't have the ships to lay mines after day one. Keep in mind it was Russia who sent out the naval warning of mines after the start of the war. Just them being a nice guy maybe? However it also tells all ships to stay away from Ukraine too. Makes a blockage so much easier. It's also interesting Russia didn't seem to have much problem sailing around Ukraine waters. They spent a lot of time shelling the coastal area early in the war. Almost makes you think they weren't afraid of running into a mine, like they almost knew where they were all located. That is until Ukraine decided they liked turning Russian surface ships into submarines. 

Sailing in the second half of the sixties and even into the seventies we had to follow minesweeped routes along the Dutch, and German coasts and in the Baltic.
There even was a book on board we had to consult. Just google NEMEDRI.

[vlad]

6 hours ago, birdman said:

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/non-human-troops-amp-spies-birds-and-animals-deployed-for-military-missions/a-beluga-russian-spy/slideshow/69183627.cms

Here you go Mary.

This thread is about Zelenski ignoring an ultimatum to lay down arms, not Flipper laying mines.

[vlad]

Strange how Haw-Haw never replies to Questions he would rather ignore like War crime trials or who are the good guys or the bad guys Mmm.

[Fanta]

6 hours ago, Alavan said:

it is a lot cheaper

I thought I posted this yesterday but it disappeared. Maybe because I didn’t write anything.

[EdwardV]

Reports that marines from Crimea refused to attack Odesa. - That was my favorite part. I think it got taken down because it was from twitter ??? 

 

 

Ukraine has claimed two Russian sea mines have washed onto one of its beaches in stormy weather. The Ukrainian military said the explosives were found in the Odessa region on Saturday.

Russian sea mines wash up onto Ukraine beach (yahoo.com)

I don't know about you, but those sure look like Russian mines hahaha 

 

[Fanta]

7 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Reports that marines from Crimea refused to attack Odesa. - That was my favorite part. I think it got taken down because it was from twitter ??? 

Ukraine has claimed two Russian sea mines have washed onto one of its beaches in stormy weather. The Ukrainian military said the explosives were found in the Odessa region on Saturday.

Russian sea mines wash up onto Ukraine beach (yahoo.com)

I don't know about you, but those sure look like Russian mines hahaha 

I posted the Twitter link (it auto embedded) and I didn’t type any text as it was already wordy and pretty self explanatory. Forum rules is you have to type text when making a post. It came from this page

https://gcaptain.com/russia-may-have-mined-ukrainian-waters-says-nato/

The Marines refused to approach the beach because they didn’t want to get shot or they saw some mines there? Seems odd to send your guys to attack through a minefield.

 

[EdwardV]

28 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The Marines refused to approach the beach because they didn’t want to get shot or they saw some mines there? Seems odd to send your guys to attack through a minefield.

Well it seems the Russian navy knows where the mines are so that shouldn't have been an issue. Not sure it's the Marines call either way. 

How do you see an underwater mine from the surface? Isn't  that the entire point, to get the ships to go in because they don't know mines are there? 

I'm guessing the Russian Navy doesn't live by the motto: "Damn the torpedo's, full speed ahead" - Admiral Farragut US Navy American Civil War (torpedo's at the time are what we call mines nowadays). 

[Fanta]

43 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Well it seems the Russian navy knows where the mines are so that shouldn't have been an issue. Not sure it's the Marines call either way. 

Seems to know? You claim the Russian navy knows where the mines are. The Marines must have been left out of the loop….. and you haven’t explained away the image of the Ukraine tugs repeatedly leaving ports and going nowhere. Patrols for what? Sure looks like a mine laying operation. I guess until we see the sea mines painted in Ukraine colors, stamped Slava Ukrani! and signed by Zelenskyy then the mines must be Russian and even then it is probably a disinformation campaign, right? 
btw: no-me can explain how the Russians got near the ports to lay the mines but that’s irrelevant?

[Fanta]

Interesting theory - was the  Moskva really sunk by Harpoons… Maybe it was really hit by mines? No images of the impact areas on the frigate, the missiles launched, drone footage to prove Ukraine’s claim. Plus the claim that the frigate was hit because it was distracted by a drone seems unlikely. Missiles would be coming in simultaneously from many directions during an attempt to sink a ship. Every other Russian ship we have seen hit has been accompanied by footage with a funky soundtrack. Either an own goal for Russia or Ukraine mines did the damage but that must be denied because it doesn’t match the Kyiv narrative that the Russians have mined the waters.

 

[birdman]

6 hours ago, vlad said:

This thread is about Zelenski ignoring an ultimatum to lay down arms, not Flipper laying mines.

I Know but if someone says i am spreading disinformation don't you think i should

respond to that?

If you look at it closely my response to you is also off topic and so is your response to mine.

If this is going to go this way then you guys are very welcome to go on without me.

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Seems to know? You claim the Russian navy knows where the mines are. The Marines must have been left out of the loop….. and you haven’t explained away the image of the Ukraine tugs repeatedly leaving ports and going nowhere. Patrols for what? Sure looks like a mine laying operation. I guess until we see the sea mines painted in Ukraine colors, stamped Slava Ukrani! and signed by Zelenskyy then the mines must be Russian and even then it is probably a disinformation campaign, right? 
btw: no-me can explain how the Russians got near the ports to lay the mines but that’s irrelevant?

I was giving the Russians the benefit of the doubt. No surprise in the least the Marines were left out of the loop. Maybe the tugs were tugging? Besides the fact tugs are not designed to lay mines, you really think the Russian navy would let them do that trip after trip after trip? After all, as you pointed out before Russia owns the Black Sea. How did they get near? See prior sentence. That’s not even considering the fact subs are very good at laying mines. And Russia has lots of subs in the Black Sea. 

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Interesting theory - was the  Moskva really sunk by Harpoons… Maybe it was really hit by mines? No images of the impact areas on the frigate,

It was hit by Neptune missiles. That said there are pictures of the Moskva post strike which shows the impact area on the hill. Here is an article with such picture, just scroll down: 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/5/6/us-pentagon-denies-helping-ukraine-sink-russian-ship-moskva

Keeping in mind at this point the ship is listing so the impact area is lower to the water than at the time of impact. Pretty much a classic hull shot for a sea skimmer missile. A mine would have blown up below or at the waterline. A listing ship wouldn’t show that in the picture. 
 

I don’t think the Neptune missiles have the ability to independently attack from different directions. To do so requires mid course correction and a source for the data. Ukraine doesn’t have that ability to my knowledge. Yet. I agree it’s unlikely the Moskva was distracted but not for the reason you think. It appears in that same picture, the Moskva’s radars are in the stored position. Also you can see none of its anti aircraft missiles are positioned to fire. Had they seen the drone that wouldn’t be the case. Of course why the ships radars are storied is a whole different question. 

[Fanta]

Looks like the blockade will be cleared via military means. Isn’t that a surprise! Of course, no US Intelligence will be involved with this either effort.  lol

https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive-us-aims-arm-ukraine-with-advanced-anti-ship-missiles-fight-russian-2022-05-19/

[Fester]

10 hours ago, Fanta said:

I thought I posted this yesterday but it disappeared. Maybe because I didn’t write anything.

Well done Haw Haw. Your Daily Fail was published too early this morning for me. Hoping I'd miss it? This map has nothing to do with Odessa, it's all of the Romanian coast around Constanta. This tweet is about as accurate as you normally are - I hope he's not a captain! H I Sutton - defence analysis?  OMG.

Most of the larger targets are commercial ships in and out of Constanta and the wee ones are fishermen further north. All setting mines of course!  

[Fester]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

Seems to know? You claim the Russian navy knows where the mines are. The Marines must have been left out of the loop….. and you haven’t explained away the image of the Ukraine tugs repeatedly leaving ports and going nowhere. Patrols for what? Sure looks like a mine laying operation. I guess until we see the sea mines painted in Ukraine colors, stamped Slava Ukrani! and signed by Zelenskyy then the mines must be Russian and even then it is probably a disinformation campaign, right? 
btw: no-me can explain how the Russians got near the ports to lay the mines but that’s irrelevant?

Already explained - probably submarines. What else have they had to do?

[Fanta]

Someone should send these guys a copy of Downfall. 

“The deputy commander of the Azov Regiment, which led the defence of the Azovstal steel mill in Mariupol, has said that he and other fighters are still inside the plant: 

An operation is under way, the details of which I will not announce,” Svyatoslav Palamar said in a brief video message.

 

[Alavan]

6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

It was hit by Neptune missiles. That said there are pictures of the Moskva post strike which shows the impact area on the hill. Here is an article with such picture, just scroll down: 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/5/6/us-pentagon-denies-helping-ukraine-sink-russian-ship-moskva

Keeping in mind at this point the ship is listing so the impact area is lower to the water than at the time of impact. Pretty much a classic hull shot for a sea skimmer missile. A mine would have blown up below or at the waterline. A listing ship wouldn’t show that in the picture. 
 

I don’t think the Neptune missiles have the ability to independently attack from different directions. To do so requires mid course correction and a source for the data. Ukraine doesn’t have that ability to my knowledge. Yet. I agree it’s unlikely the Moskva was distracted but not for the reason you think. It appears in that same picture, the Moskva’s radars are in the stored position. Also you can see none of its anti aircraft missiles are positioned to fire. Had they seen the drone that wouldn’t be the case. Of course why the ships radars are storied is a whole different question. 

As I posted just after the sinking, I think we have a loss of stability due to free surface (term known by all officers, frequently asked on examinations). It often happens when firefighting on board. You get a negative stability and capsizing as all the firefighting water moves to one side. Check the sinking of Normandie in the port of New York during fire fighting on board in WW2.
Also the Herald of Free Enterprise capsizing was by the free watersurface in the garage.

[Faraday]

An off topic & irrelevant video removed.

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